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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Should we also stop keeping scores and stats in sports? Why not get rid of anything remotely competitive or that could lead to competition because a few people get offended? No. The problem is not in the tool, but in the user.
    I think comparing to sports is a good analogy, but score is likely the wrong thing to compare, score is really a broad perspective that is the direct decider as to the winner or loser, I'd say score of a sport would be the bosses health in the analogy, not your personal damage done or DPS.

    Meters would be more analogous with player statistics, how many completed passes they have, how many points they've scored, the number of assists, total yards ran, all that kind of stuff. Lets say you're the owner of a team, or to make it more realistic, lets say you want to play in a fantasy baseball/basketball/football/hockey league, those stats matter greatly.

    Can you play fantasy sports while only picking players based on games their team has won? Probably, but it'll be a lot harder to choose than for the person who has full player stats sheets, and plays by those. If you join a fantasy league and know nothing about the player stats, some of the other people might be asses and laugh at you or brag about how much they know... But the nice people will share what they know and try to help people who don't know any better out... or just leave them to their own thing if they seem to be content doing it that way, and it isn't hurting the game.

    One thing that would never happen though, is the rest of the members of the fantasy league going: "Oh the new guy picks without using stats, and he doesn't like that we do, guess we have to throw out all this info we have then."
    Last edited by Delia; 2011-10-11 at 07:36 PM.

  2. #62
    Elemental Lord Dezerte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    This never happened in my guild runs. Perhaps you need to change who you raid with or lower your expectations of random strangers.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 01:33 PM ----------



    Personal meters? Is this the extent that you feel we need to go to in order for the people that you play with to be civil? I do agree that bosses should be based more on mechanics, though.
    Yes, I think it would create a more cooperative experience when playing with random people. Again, when you're playing with your friends & guild I totally understand the need to share DPS data.

  3. #63
    Damage meters will inevitably show themselves in this game, it's just a matter of time. They're a useful tool but at launch I think the worst thing for Bioware would be to promote how much DPS you're doing, I think they would rather you focus on your characters development and the choices you make while leveling up. Once end game becomes a bit more of a norm and guilds are formulated and people are capable of working together to get raids worked on then I could see them opening it up to some addons that analyze battle data as it would almost certainly have to happen.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Combat log recording is in this game, if that breaks the NDA then sorry. There is no built-in damage meter yet, but I'm sure that addons will be put in post-launch.
    I assume this guy is not telling us a lie so combat logs exist in SWTOR. That being said I have a question for the anti-damage meter folks:

    If there is combat logs, there will be parsers like ACT written. Heck I'm capable of writing my own if I had the time. These programs act almost exactly like either an offline WOL or an out-of-game version of recount - really a combo of both. Damage stats can be taken live, they can be broken down by encounter, and they can be cut-and-pasted into the game chat window.

    What is the reason for not liking an addon version of this? If the stats can be gathered and compared, why would you be against an in-game addon vs just running it on my second monitor?

    I can understand, though completely disagree with, the reasons for not wanting to be able to track this data at all - but why be against an addon that can do it when the capabilities to get this data already exist?

  5. #65
    In an 8-16 man raid/operation, it won't be too difficult to see who is doing their job and who isn't.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by FnKraze View Post
    In an 8-16 man raid/operation, it won't be too difficult to see who is doing their job and who isn't.
    No. There's a big difference between someone spamming random shit so that his character is always doing something and someone who is optimizing their rotation and not clipping their dots.

    You can stare at people if you want to and wonder why you guys are struggling on normal mode Ragnaros for the last 3 months, or you can learn to be efficient and do some actual content.
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  7. #67
    If they ever add in a recount, I'm not playing TOR anymore. Or gearscore. You fucking E-peen flexers are the reason MMOs suck now a days. Sure, these types of addons have legitimate reasons for being around; unfortunately, 99% of the player base abuses them instead.

    Don't insult, generalize, and call names if you have a differing opinion. Infracted.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-12 at 03:51 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    If they ever add in a recount, I'm not playing TOR anymore. Or gearscore. You fucking E-peen flexers are the reason MMOs suck now a days. Sure, these types of addons have legitimate reasons for being around; unfortunately, 99% of the player base abuses them instead.
    Stop being a part of the 99% then.

    As a WoW player of 3 years, I never had problems with Recount. In 5man dungeons I always performed well enough, even on my newly dinged 80s/85s that people didn't care about how bad my gear was. In raids, I'd understand when people didn't want my undergeared alts in their raids, because well, I'm dragging them down, I wouldn't want me either. That's where you have to improve yourself and make yourself better, and if you put in the effort, people wouldn't complain. In guild raids, I left guilds that had immature idiots that would spam Recount, and I joined professional/hardcore guilds where people were more mature and the skill level was better.

    You guys are so afraid of a game actually having different skill caps because you don't want anyone to be better than you, when you could instead just better yourself. It's not about the epeen, it's about knowing the numbers so you can see who's slacking and who isn't, and doing something about the people who are slacking.
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  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Shamburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    If they ever add in a recount, I'm not playing TOR anymore. Or gearscore. You fucking E-peen flexers are the reason MMOs suck now a days. Sure, these types of addons have legitimate reasons for being around; unfortunately, 99% of the player base abuses them instead.
    ...and nothing of value was lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    -snip-

    You guys are so afraid of a game actually having different skill caps because you don't want anyone to be better than you, when you could instead just better yourself. It's not about the epeen, it's about knowing the numbers so you can see who's slacking and who isn't, and doing something about the people who are slacking.
    Couldn't have put it better myself. It's as if some people LIKE having their time wasted. I personally don't like sitting at a boss for 2 hours smashing my keyboard with my face because so-and-so player does 4k (ouuu an example let's take the whole discussion out of context!!!) dps less than than everyone else, where a 2 second look at a damage meter would address the problem.

  10. #70
    I am Murloc! Nienniora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    If they ever add in a recount, I'm not playing TOR anymore. Or gearscore. You fucking E-peen flexers are the reason MMOs suck now a days. Sure, these types of addons have legitimate reasons for being around; unfortunately, 99% of the player base abuses them instead.
    Dont start playing then, once the addon API is in, its the first addon coming out.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sighz View Post
    There's nothing wrong with damage meters, there's just a lot of stupid people using them for the wrong reasons.
    The exact same case could be made for Gearscore. It had a bunch of features that 99% of people ignored, opting instead to go for "High gs = skillz".
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  12. #72
    Metrics of performance in a raid, especially a progression raid, without a doubt help. If you're stuck on an encounter that isn't mechanically or tactically difficult, there's a good chance someone (or multiple someones...) performance needs to improve. Being able to quantify your performance will assist in overcoming new content if you can find where there's a shortfall.

    I never even downloaded Recount, but I did pay attention to it and WoL. If I wasn't keeping pace with other DPS, I wanted to know. I don't like wasting other people's time. I wasn't obsessive about it though. If I was within a few percent of the #1 guy, and there wasn't a big gear discrepancy, I was satisfied usually. If I wasn't performing as well as I thought I should, I'd head to a theorycrafting site to find the problem and fix it.

    In an instance/flashpoint though, they shouldn't be necessary. Use of addons should be reserved for guilds. You'll have clowns who feel it necessary to link their epeen, but they tend to quickly find themselves on an ignore list.

  13. #73
    The Patient Slugfest's Avatar
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    It seems like people who don't want meters don't seem like true team players to me. Don't you want to know if you are helping or hindering the group? Meters help with that. If I am under performing, I want to know about it so I can pick up my game.
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  14. #74
    I certainly hope there's a damage meter. I don't want to call out baddies and make them feel like shit, but I don't want to invite them again, either. I would also rather that BioWare included an in-game damage meter. The less add-ons I have to DL, the better.
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  15. #75
    Scarab Lord Trollsbane's Avatar
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    Closing this now. Calling people names and insulting others, for whatever reason you don't agree with, is not allowed.

    We're all going to take a timeout from discussing addons for a while.
    Last edited by Trollsbane; 2011-10-12 at 03:15 AM.

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