Looking for some Ragnaros 10N help

[Jumzatron]

So our guild attempted Ragnaros 10N for the first time last night (i know, a little late to the party ) and we were having lots of trouble on the transition phases.

Problem #1 for us was organizing ourselves into left and right groups to handle the sons of flame. We actually managed to do well when the hammer hit 6/2, but we had trouble when it hit 4/4. I think that it was mostly a communication problem, so there is little we can do about it except communicate positions better.

The second problem was with the seeds. We didn't have a problem downing the seeds, but, not sure if it was poor positioning or bad luck, but we would be spread out for the seeds to spawn and when we would run to the middle of the edge of Ragnaros' pool, he would cast engulfing flames between us and the stack position. Is there anything we can do to prevent that from happening or do we just take into account that if rag casts engulfing flames somewhere to move to another preset spot?

Also, seeds cant be picked up right once they spawn? as in the are imprinted to the character that they spawned on, correct?
Another question was how to properly pop the traps. The mage that was handling traps would sometimes fall into the lava behind the platform.

WoL link: worldoflogs.com/reports/bv9wawqdi2qnyob2/

Any constructive criticism is much appreciated.

[4KhazModan]

For the engulfing flames problem, have 2 stack points. We use 1 right infront of him, and 1 near the edge of his hit box. That way you always have a place to go.
The seeds inprint themselves, tank doesn't pick them up. Just aoe them down asap.
We use a mage to pop the traps, he uses his slow fall shortly before hitting the ground, that way he doesn't get sent drifting away.

[Angelsfist]

Mage can also blink traps, much faster, just have to time it right.

[Youvegotfail]

for transition phases, it helps to assign stuns/high burst dps to the first two adds on each side...what we normally do is double up both tanks on first (first means closest to hammer for the purposes of this explanation) add on the right (facing rag) unless you run dual DK tanks one will have a stun (and doubling them up on one ensures there's still one there for second transition phase when the other one gets big adds). then just assign the other stunners and melee accordingly and then have your ranged take the farthest away ones.

the way to handle the engulfing flames during phase 2 is to stay spread out on either sides at MAX MELEE range, that way if engulfing flames spawn in the front or middle areas, you only have to move forward or back a small amount to avoid them. When collapsing in the center after seeds what we do is stack at max melee the first time (no hammer will spawn during this stack), then on the second time you need to run in to stack, engulfing flames will hit before then, so if it hits anywhere except the front of the room, you immediately stack at MINIMUM melee range in the center (to avoid the hammer that comes during this one). If engulfing flames is in the front you run into the center and stack at max melee until the flames go away then immediately move right up to the edge of the lava pool (to avoid aformentioned hammer)...then you just alternate back and forth between stacking at max melee for the ones with no hammer, and min for the ones where hammers spawn (although if dps is high enough, stacking three times should be all it takes).

and as for the traps, mages are awesome at popping them (i do it on mine). I have no idea how yours managed to get into the lava, unless he's using slowfall, which is a horrible option. Tell him to just blink as soon as the trap goes off (before he gets shot too far in the air) and you guys will win.

lastly, I'm pretty sure seeds fixate and therefore cant be tanked...make sure everyone is clumped tightly for aoe during that part.

sorry if some of that was rambling, and I hope some of it was helpful, good luck!

[Kurzior]

For strategy, how are you assigning positions for killing the adds? Are you splitting into 2 groups and just going free-for-all on your assigned side of the hammer, or doing individual assignments? In my guild, we assign each dps a single add spawn point relative to the hammer, i.e. 1st left, 1st right, 2nd left and so on. There should be 1 or 2 dps free to go to the side with more adds in a 6/2 situation, but make sure they know which side is theirs for a 4/4 split. Since you're running 3 healers right now, you'll want to assign 4 dps to specific locations and leave the 5th to go to the heavy spawning side. You'll want your "spikey" dps closer to the hammer so they can kill the near adds quickly. This means any melee, or your mage. Also, have both dk's ready to death grip adds that get too close. Your pally tank should glyph for Holy Wrath stun for this too. (HW is also nice for the P2 adds). Knockbacks also work on them. Don't bother with snares/slows though, as they are minimally effective compared to dpsing them below the 50% health mark.

For seeds, consider instead doing a left/right strategy. It works much better for 10 man since you have the space to do it. Start P2 with everyone on the right edge of the platform, spread 6 yards to avoid stacking seeds. When they spawn, run to a point on the left. You should have time to move up or back for engulfing. It does sound though like people just aren't stacking fast enough. Possible help for this would be to have your druid use Stampeding Roar to give a small sprint for ranged to run in.

A few general things. Your dps seems a little low, but definitely not so that the fight is unkillable. Just make sure everyone is doing all they can to max their dps. To this effect, I would strongly suggest going to 2 heals, most likely paladin/druid and have your shaman run elemental. Any 2 of your 3 healers will work, but getting an extra dps is a huge help in transition phases. When my guild killed this fight, we spent a full night running 3 heals, wiped the entire time, then went to 2 heals and 2-shot him. It really does make that big a difference. Since the nerf especially, the healing is very manageable on this fight for 2 people.

There are quite a few people getting hit by lava waves and engulfing flames. The big thing here is getting used to the fight. Just make sure people understand what to look for. Also, playing with 'projected textures' graphics option ON will make sure they see the pools for the hammer and give a better chance to avoid them. It might not be the case, but I've run with pugs before that got hit by waves for this reason.

Don't be too discouraged you didn't get very far on the first night. Its a long fight that takes a lot of getting used to. GL on your first kill.

[Kaj392]

At 4/4 let your mage take the far side and your frost DK the other side. We have our hpala stun the mage's side and a tank (in our case prot warr) stun the second closest. The mage can get his easily down before the stun ends.
The dk side is going good with our feral tank helping with charge / pounce (and tauren racial if needed).

For seeds we usually stack up against Ragnaros with seeds and when engulfing is ready to hit we just are ready to move to a second spot. It works for us.

For traps, as said above: time the slowfall (a bad lag spike can kill them, happened to us last night :P)

[Jumzatron]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I think we will be trying the left/right strategy in regards to the seeds. Like spread out across right side and run left to aoe.
I will also suggest to our shaman to go elemental because i too noticed that our dps was a tad low. This would help out with the sons of flame too.

We were currently sort of free-for-all-ing on the sons of flame. It worked 50% of the time haha, but assigning players to specific spots should help here.

So let me get this straight, the trap sends you STRAIGHT up right, not off in another direction? A slow-falling mage ought to be enough to handle this i suppose.

We'll try again this week and ill keep you all posted!

[kaelleria]

Make a macro like this for positioning... remove any and all confusion in the transition phases:
Hammer Center
x - x - x - x |-| x - x - x - x
Player1 - Player2 - Player3 - Player4 |-| Player5 - Player6 - Player7 - Player8
Hammer Right
x - x - x - x - x - x |-| x - x
Player1 - Player2 - Player3 - Player4 - Player5 - Player6 |-| Player7 - Player8
Hammer Left
x - x |-| x - x - x - x - x - x
Player1 - Player2 |-| Player3 - Player4 - Player5 - Player6 - Player7 - Player8

Have your tanks take the 2 end adds regardless of what set up it is. This will help you out during the second transition phase. Any decently geared tank can bring their add to sub 50% in 2 gcds. The characters closest to the hammer should be your melee dps then casters with high burst and finally casters with ramp up time.

As for the seeds, this really depends on the strat you use. Here's a basic diagram I whipped up for our reg p2 strategy.


Basically split up your group as shown in the diagram. It is very important that before the seeds, you do not have anyone within the giant hammer looking thing. All the seeds will drop outside of the hammer. As they're landing move towards the first stack point... This should be about 6 yards away from the edge of the platform. During this first seed mechanic, you will always get Engulfing Flames. If it happens to spawn on the stack point, your raiders need to all move forwards to the 2nd stack point and continue nuking the adds. Split up again and wait for the 2nd seed mechanic.

For this seed mechanic, everyone will need to stack on stack point 2 due to a Sulfuras smash about 8 seconds into this. This mechanic will nearly always correspond with an engulfing flames. If the engulfing flames is on stack point 2, just sit tight until the engulfing flames is gone and move to stack point 2. Rinse and repeat this part until you get down to 40%.

As for your mage breaking the traps... All they have to do is blink right after they hit the trap and they won't even go airborne for longer than a half second.

[Youvegotfail]

So let me get this straight, the trap sends you STRAIGHT up right, not off in another direction? A slow-falling mage ought to be enough to handle this i suppose.

this is correct, however using slow fall is still suboptimal (even if used right before you hit the ground) because you loose the dps time while moving up and down.

just tell your mage to blink as soon as the trap is triggered (and use mage ward before he pops the trap for extra win points).

[Kurzior]

So let me get this straight, the trap sends you STRAIGHT up right, not off in another direction? A slow-falling mage ought to be enough to handle this i suppose.

We'll try again this week and ill keep you all posted!

If you have the mage take them, have him Mage Ward and then blink after he triggers the trap. It takes less time and he'll get a nice short dps buff for his trouble. Alternatively, a frost/unholy dk can trigger the traps with AMS and it will not launch him at all . We tried this in our early attempts and it worked amazingly, since we don't have a mage and didn't want our spriest to lose too much dps on them.

Quick note on the left/right strategy for P2, by the way. The first aoe pack will spawn concurrently with the first engulfing flames. Ideally, you want to run and stack on the edge of melee range to quickly move up or back depending on the engulfing spawn point. The second group (when you go back right), will be accompanied by a sulfuras smash. Make your stack as close to rag as possible so no one gets 'ROFL HAMMER SMACKED' by Raggy. This pattern will continue if you need to go for a third or fourth aoe pack, so make sure everyone's aware of your stack points. The general don't stand in fire rule applies. Lastly, DO NOT push into the transition right before seeds come up. If you aren't able to get him with about 5-10 seconds to spare, just wait and get him on the next cycle. Pushing into the phase with elementals and seeds will be a wipe 99% of the time.

[Drunknlulaby]

I have a question in regards to the Scions.

Our guild has no trouble getting to Phase 3. However...we are getting face rapped shortly into it. I have a feeling this is due in part to where the Scions are placed at by tanks. I am not terribly sure though. Is there a particular place to tank them? Obviously we leave one of the Sons of Flames up to get more time to DPS the Scion. But after that we seem to be having real trouble. It doesn't appear to be a DPS issue though. More placement than anything. The other melee and myself are putting up 25K dps consistently and everyone else is right at 20 or so.

We are not pushing into the transition, so that seems right. I am at a loss though. We roll through the other bosses and into phase 3 on the reset day. Then struggle with Rag for 2 more before we reset and try again. Any insight would be very helpful. Thanks!