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  1. #1

    Heroic Lord Rhyolith - can't get to 2nd phase

    We have tried H Rhyolith for a few nights now and seems to be stucked on the first phase. Its the same pattern that around 6 to 7 minutes into the fight we wipe due to either 3 active volcanos are overwelming us or the healers are running OOM. Best try is 31%, 6 minutes and 47 sec into the fight.

    Raid composition is as following:

    Tank: Protection pala
    Dps: Feral druid, enhancement shaman, survival hunter, demo lock, fire mage, arcane mage, elemental shaman
    Healers: Disc priest, resto druid

    We have the feral druid and enhancement shaman full duty on legs. Obsidians are ignored. At our best try our arcane mage had 19k dps while the rest were between 12k and 8k. The healers are told to push more healing out but so long into the fight but from our point of view we just cant seem to hold it any longer.

    Anyway, any suggestions how to fix this are mostly welcome

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Destined View Post
    We have tried H Rhyolith for a few nights now and seems to be stucked on the first phase. Its the same pattern that around 6 to 7 minutes into the fight we wipe due to either 3 active volcanos are overwelming us or the healers are running OOM. Best try is 31%, 6 minutes and 47 sec into the fight.

    Raid composition is as following:

    Tank: Protection pala
    Dps: Feral druid, enhancement shaman, survival hunter, demo lock, fire mage, arcane mage, elemental shaman
    Healers: Disc priest, resto druid

    We have the feral druid and enhancement shaman full duty on legs. Obsidians are ignored. At our best try our arcane mage had 19k dps while the rest were between 12k and 8k. The healers are told to push more healing out but so long into the fight but from our point of view we just cant seem to hold it any longer.

    Anyway, any suggestions how to fix this are mostly welcome
    You need to push p2 before the 5 minute mark, or it's a wipe. He gets superheated, which functions as a soft enrage and will very quickly wipe you. Each stack of superheated increases his damage dealt.

    Assign all of your dps to legs, when theres no sparks, and no fragments, everyone needs to be on them. When the legs hit 50%, kill whatever set of fragments is out, then pop hero and push the legs to 25% to start p2. He'll probably still be at 40-50 stacks of armor, it's not a big deal, just push him.

    Spread out for the transition, pop an aura mastery or a raid wall or something, if you make the push before 5 minutes, you have a kill.
    Last edited by Shmeh; 2011-10-12 at 08:37 AM.

  3. #3
    You can't kill him on heroic if you go above five minutes, due to superheated. You need to push more DPS rather than healing to get this fight down.
    Why do you have a fire mage? Theyre vastly inferior to arcane.
    Why do you have a survival hunter? Theyre vastly inferior to MM, and you have 10% melee haste from the enh shaman.
    The aoe from MM+Demolock should be more than enough to take out fragments. Having the two (now arcane) mages burst down the spark of rhyolith should also be sufficient. This means you can stick the shaman on rhyolith too, to get more dmg in on him.
    Make sure people are always killing SOMETHING - if theres no fragments or sparks up, kill the obsidians or the legs.
    Don't "ignore" obsidians, drag fragments into packs of them to aoe them together, so they do not fuse with the boss and make the fight longer.

  4. #4
    Let the arcane mage and elemental shaman stay on the legs all the time also and let them switch to the Spark when it spawns, because elemental shaman and arcane mage aoe dps is crap. After 3 sparks, make TimeWarp/Heroism/Bloodlust and just nuke the boss into p2. In p2 roll raid cds and stack up while moving from beams.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Alexandrus's Avatar
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    Basically what we do is wait for him to hit about 30-35 stacks of armor left, then all DPS nukes him. At that point he'll be around 40ish% health depending on DPS, and we can knock him down to 25% rather easily if DPS save their CDs for then. After that, you push him to p2 just about when he goes superheated or shortly after. Management of raidwide CDs is key to survival, and you should be able to win.
    "And if it ends with both of us dying in an explosion taking out a Reaper - remember I took the killshot." ~ Garrus Vakarian

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Don't ignore obsidians, have your hunter dps + slow them. If they all reach the boss you'll never get the stacks down and what will happen is what you're seeing.

    I doubt a fire mage is that awesome for this, 2 arcane mages might be better unless he is unwilling to switch or something. Arcane AoE is actually pretty good here.

    Have three, not two people on the legs at all times and never stop nuking them. If you have 3 active volcanoes up your driving is bad, not much to say to that except keep trying and watch some vids, try to keep it in a big circle instaed of sharp turns if you can and stop any inactive volcanoes you're passing as well if you can so they don't become active behind the boss.

    Rest of the dps nuke down sparks and adds asap, no adds up = put something on the legs. Prioritize the lock to fragments, the others to sparks. Make sure to tank the fragments on top of the obsidians whenever you can, makes life easier.

    When you have sub-20 stacks of armor / 30 sec to superheated pop hero & CD's, dps ignore any sparks up (fragments still have to die so they don't rape you) and nuke the boss into phase.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Phase 1:
    Have 4 people on the legs, 2 left, 2 right, 1 melee on each leg, 1 ranged on each leg. Have a 5th person also on legs, but trying to do it equaly. (Shadow priests are good for this.)
    Have 2 good AoE DPS on the little adds, and when big add spawns all ranged switch to big add.

    Preparing for phase 2:
    A big add spawns @ 4.20 into the fight.
    What we do; start stopwatch at start of the fight, at 4.20, big add spawns, and I tell everyone to ignore the big add, pop bloodlust, go on legs. Kill it before second stomp in p2.

    EDIT: Don't listen to the person above me, IGNORE obsidians. Just put a slow trap below them, but don't DPS them.

    We usually have boss on about 35% at the 4.20 minute mark when we switch to legs, and boss dies around 4.40 mark.
    Last edited by Dutchmagoz; 2011-10-12 at 08:43 AM.

  8. #8
    By that time in the fight, you really need to have him below 25% and into the second phase. After 5 minutes, he starts stacking a buff called Superheated. Each stack increases his damage done by 10%, so that, combined with having 3 volcanoes up, is a sure way to wipe your Raid. Because of this, you want to have him into phase 2 at around the 5 minute mark.

    It sounds to me like your problem is with the Volcanoes and leaving them up for too long. The longer they're up, the more damage your Raid takes, plus, it means that you're not getting down his armour stacks, so it's harder to actually damage him. It also sounds like you don't have many people attacking the legs.

    Keep the Feral and the Enhance Sham on the legs, but also have the Hunter, Arcane Mage and the Elemental Shaman on them. Leave the Fragments for the Fire Mage and the Demo Lock. When a Spark spawns, have a couple of extra DPS swap onto him to make sure he's down before the Fragments spawn.
    When Rhyolith is down to around 20 stacks of Armour and his health is at around 30-35%, pop Hero/BL/TW and push him into the next phase.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Don't ignore obsidians, have your hunter dps + slow them. If they all reach the boss you'll never get the stacks down and what will happen is what you're seeing.

    I doubt a fire mage is that awesome for this, 2 arcane mages might be better unless he is unwilling to switch or something. Arcane AoE is actually pretty good here.

    Have three, not two people on the legs at all times and never stop nuking them. If you have 3 active volcanoes up your driving is bad, not much to say to that except keep trying and watch some vids, try to keep it in a big circle instaed of sharp turns if you can and stop any inactive volcanoes you're passing as well if you can so they don't become active behind the boss.

    Rest of the dps nuke down sparks and adds asap, no adds up = put something on the legs. Prioritize the lock to fragments, the others to sparks. Make sure to tank the fragments on top of the obsidians whenever you can, makes life easier.

    When you have sub-20 stacks of armor / 30 sec to superheated pop hero & CD's, dps ignore any sparks up (fragments still have to die so they don't rape you) and nuke the boss into phase.
    No. Just ignore them. They're not worth dealing with at all, just ignore them.

    Also, everyone should have a leg assignment, when everything dies, they get on the legs.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    7 minutes in phase 1? No wounder your healers are overwhelmed. Hell, if they can last 3 minutes of superheated stomps, they are amazing and are pretty much carrying rest of you at this point. The idea of the fight is to get in to the phase before he becomes superheated, thus stacking 10% more damage every 10 seconds, which happens around 4 to 5 minutes in to the fight (not sure about exact timers).

    No, you should never have 3 active volcanoes at any given time, that is a huge strain on the healers. Heck, you should never really go past 4-5 stacks on one volcano, so I assume either your drivers are bad or they are doing something wrong. Like trying to avoid dormant volcanoes. It's ok to step on them if that means you can get to the active one ASAP.

    And finally, you should never "ignore" slimes. IF your DPS is too low and you do not have free time to DPS them down between fragments and sparks, than make your hunter and enh shammy rotate traps and earthbind under the bosses feet, to prevent them from getting in.

    Dunno when you use bloodlust, but the best time is when boss has below 6 stacks of armor and is around 50%. This will allow you to burn him down and avoid most of the phase 2.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  11. #11
    Since you're running with 1 tank and 2 healers, you should have no issues whatsoever to reach p2 before the 5 min mark, even with bad dps thanks to the nerfs.

    That suggests to me you're doing something wrong tactics wise. Aside from the suggestions regarding the specs of your raid that Draco said above me, try the following approach:

    LEGS: Your shamans and feral druid on the legs fulltime.
    SPARKS: Your mages on the sparks. No sparks up? On the legs. (If you are able to kill the sparks with just 1 mage assigned to them before the next one spawns, do that and assign the 2nd mage to the legs)
    FRAGMENTS: Your lock and hunter should be able to easily handle the fragments. No fragments up? dps the legs.

    Regarding the fragments, try to tank them on top of groups of obsidians as much as possible, since they will die from the AOE without any additional effort.
    Regarding the obsidians, assign your ele shaman to knock them away from the boss whenever a group of 2+ gets too close.

    As soon as the 4th spark spawns, clean up the fragments that are up at that point, bloodlust/heroism and nuke the legs. Everyone ignores the 4th spark, fragments, and obsidians at that point and nukes the boss. If you don't hit phase 2 before the bloodlust runs out (which should be around the 5 min mark with this timing), it's pretty much a wipe due to the superheated mechanics and your dps was too low.

    If you hit phase 2 before the 5 min mark (even if it's just by a few seconds) it's pretty much a kill unless people hug the lazorz. If you're in p2 10-15 seconds later, it's likely to be a 5% wipe due to the AoE damage becoming unhealable. Simple as that

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Destined View Post
    around 6 to 7 minutes into the fight
    Bang, problem right here. You're DPS is bad or your strat is very wrong.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    No. Just ignore them. They're not worth dealing with at all, just ignore them.

    Also, everyone should have a leg assignment, when everything dies, they get on the legs.
    Frankly, I'm impressed you're lasting as long as you are. Six to seven minutes takes some skill, and you should commend your healers for it.

    If you make sure that all your players are doing even semi-decent DPS (that fire mage really ought to be arcane for this fight), the factor you seem to be missing is the burn. When the fourth spark spawns you need to clean up the fragments, have everyone switch to the boss, and blow him up. We also have our Demo lock solo the last two waves of fragments with CDs and very minimal help, allowing for even more up-time on the boss. Yours could do probably do the same. Don't even worry about the liquid obsidians -- his armor will not be a significant problem with proper driving. Make sure that your raid tries to save any large CDs for the burn, pop bloodlust, and the boss will go from 50% to 25% very quickly.
    Last edited by Tartilus; 2011-10-12 at 08:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Blademaster Ramzuz's Avatar
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    In regards to the fragments you're paladin tank and a good aoe class can manage them on their own. Have the paladin use Inquisition and Hammer of Righteous and you should be fine. If there's ever a time where the adds spawn away from the paladin then have the hunter MD them back to him. Once sparks come out just have all of the ranged switch and nuke it down fast and then go back to their previous jobs. Everyone else is right about ignoring adds at the last 40 seconds and just lusting and burning the boss. Just make sure that the paladin has everything picked up. If you still can't down it then it's an issue driving the boss.

  15. #15
    The Patient Thaendra's Avatar
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    Our raid pretty much always ignores the Obsidian oozes since they seem to die eventually to the passive AE that's being done on the fragments already. we have 2 DPS PER LEG. That means Rhyo has lots of DPS. We only need one arcane mage or hunter to kill the spark. Never EVER let 3 volcanoes spawn, that is a big no-no. For my raid, if we have 3 up, that means either guaranteed wipe, or we use a lot of raid CD's and MAYBE we will live long enough to down volcanoes quickly. Rarely though. Usually we have 1 up, sometimes 2.. but the 2nd is stomped out quickly most of the time.

    So basically:
    4 dps on Rhyo (also AE'ing on the legs when there is a chance: we tank the fragments ON the legs so that the AE hits everything)
    1 DPS spark (usually arcane mage or hunter)
    2 DPS fragments (one of these two DPS is a plate melee like DK or ret pally that can "tank" the fragments, although imo frost DK is very good for this)
    Last edited by Thaendra; 2011-10-12 at 09:02 AM.

  16. #16
    It's a two part race. First get some armor off him (think we took him to 30-40). Then burn hero and nuke like mad to get his HP down. Run him in a large circle as much as possible. U-turns are a guaranteed way to get 20 obsidian blobs stuck back to him. Traps behind him if they get too close. Keep 2 people on add duty, maybe have all ranged switch to the large add for the first 2 to down it faster to give the others more time on the stray obsidians and more time on the boss.

    We killed him the first time we pushed him into P2, even with half the raid dying almost right away to laser derping (which seemed to go in circles rather than following people).

  17. #17
    1 tank
    2 heales
    7 DPS

    5 DPS on legs ( 2 on each leg all the time and 1 burst for turning, or if you want 1 on each leg never to switch and 1 on each leg that will switch when needed with 1 more that DSP's legs when turning and moves to big add when its up)

  18. #18
    What we do and makes the fight a cake is have 3 dps on the legs at all times (at least 2 of them melee). Then when 4th SPARK comes (boss should have low debuffs by then), pop bloodlust and ALL dps nuke the legs, this forces the boss in phase 2, then just continue nuke and avoid lazerz

  19. #19
    Thx a lot for your very constructive imputs. To summ up what most of you basically are saying is something like this:

    Legs: Feral and enhance shaman along with the elemental shaman (so he can knock the obsidans away as well if they get too close to the boss).
    Sparks: The two mages on sparks and when no sparks up on the legs.
    Fragments: The hunter and lock take care of those.

    And pop heroism after 4th spark is spawned and all nukes the boss to push into the 2nd phase. The paladin whos tanking should try to use Inquisition and Hammer of Righteous. The hunter use MM and the fire mage should instead go arcane.

  20. #20
    Way my guild has always done it is after the 3rd Spark Spawns, we kill that, kill the next 2 Fragment waves, when the second is all at like 10% we switch everyone onto the boss, blow BL and burn him. Our Balance Druid (if Resto Druid isnt in raid - you can just use your resto) pops Tranq the moment the boss falls on his ass to heal through the big explosion, then everyone runs apart 6 yards.

    The boss can be as high as like 75% even when you switch onto him, just cleave the hell out of his legs, don't even worry about Volcanos once you switch onto him really. Just have everyone nuke on leg and if a volcano really has been up ages, can direct him in that direction as he will turn on like a penny at that point.

    As for the Obsidians, just get the Enhance Shaman to use Earthbind Totem and to throw Flame Shocks out onto various Obsidians. Fire Nova will like auto kill them all and if there are enough, even nuke the boss a bit (and save globals cos never need to refresh Flame Shocks on either Leg).

    TL;DR - Just kill 3 Sparks, kill the next Fragment wave after the 3rd, weaken the second Fragment wave, then switch onto boss and just have tank pick up the incoming Spark and the incoming Fragments whilst the raid blows up the boss. You NEED to push the boss before he hits Superheated or the AoE he does when you do push the phase will probably kill people even with Tranq.

    EDIT: RAID SET UP - My guild always has gone 1 DPS on each leg (Warrior and Frost DK/A Tank in Offspec - its on farm now so we dont even bother bringing an extra dps for it hehe). Frost DK throws the odd Howling Blast onto the Obsidians (same effect as Enhance FS + FN + Earthbind), and we have the other 5 DPS derp mode the adds, then cos the adds die so fast, switch onto the boss between add phases, nuking the leg our 'driver' (Warrior) calls out. This puts minimum strain on healers as adds die incredibly fast. As Elemental Shaman, I actually spend a large portion of my time nuking the Obsidians these days, but thats just for the numberz for WoL. I didn't do that on our progression kill, I just did knockbacks if the boss happened to be near me, else I just nuked the legs.
    Last edited by Undefetter; 2011-10-12 at 11:16 AM.


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