Flying In The Next Expansion

[Vaelyn]

Artisan Pandaren Flying Master Beer Drinking Riding.

Believe.

OMG, this... lawl. ^_^

[Deleted]

I have this theory where I believe Blizzard wish they never implemented Flying mounts in the first place.

Sure, at the time they seemed like a great idea. They're really fun and entertaining. Now, though? It's exactly as the OP says: they remove you from the world. There is no danger, no excitement. Imagine the Molten Front.

The Molten Front is a warzone. There is always a battle being fought. The Druids are struggling to hold their ground; it's up to us to lead the charge and fight through the seemingly endless waves of elementals. We mount up, let loose a battle cry, and charge headfirst into the fray. We fight tooth and nail for every scrap of land we can get; we save the lives of the Druids who were caught behind enemy lines; we fight to win the war.

Imagine if flying mounts were allowed in the Molten Front. There'd be no sense of conflict or danger whatsoever: you'd mount up, hop over to the next Druid, pick them up and immediately jump up and fly to the next objective. You wouldn't be in the thick of the battle: you'd be seperated. No immersion whatsoever.

There have been times in the Molten Front where I spent far too long just charging between elementals on my Warrior, killing way more than I need to. Or on my Hunter, I spend more time taking down the enormous Molten Behemoths just because I can. Because it all helps. Because we're fighting a war. If we were able to simply fly over it all, I'd never have been able to get that immersed into the story.

There's also little things, like Achievements. Think of King of Spider Hill: if flying mounts were allowed that would never have been able to be implemented. Nor would the area leading up to the Phoenix area, nor the mountain itself. It wouldn't have felt nearly as epic to reach the peak of the mountain, only to quickly rush back down as you flee from the Phoenix Matriarch (or whatever she's called). Sure, these are minor things, but it all adds up. It all helps with the immersion.

Flying mounts have their place. But I would've loved to see them implemented like the Seahorse in Vashj'ir: restricted to a single zone that is designed for flying mounts. For example, Storm Peaks is a zone that works brilliantly with a flying mount, as is Icecrown. We'd be given a gryphon to fly around those zones, but for the rest we'd be stuck on foot.

There's so much that could have been, if only flying mounts never existed. So much that Blizzard could do, but now cannot because removing flyers would cause such a backlash from the community. It's a shame that we're missing out.

So true, all of it.

I also don't think the argument "if you don't like a flying mount, don't use it" is very good either. Say, if we had the ability to teleport to anywhere in the game we want, instantly (with mages this could easily be possible lore-wise too), wouldn't that be boring? Would you want something like that to be possible? Wouldn't it make questing process so much "less painful"? Maybe. But I think it would be boring as hell. The immersion comes from being "forced" to the ground, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that moving around is more painful. We could have more flightpaths and the world could be better designed to support ground mounts.

Because let's face it, if the final result is just the same, 99% of people will take the easy way out and fly over any obstacle or danger. I can admit I'm guilty of that myself too. Sure, it makes everything faster... but more boring and bland as well.

These two are the best posts I have read the last few months. They express my views not only in terms of flying, but in immersion generally. The same can be said about the portals (though things are a bit different there).

If you cannot understand the reasoning behind all this, think of trying to get immersed and engaged in the world like you would in a book or movie. It is a very rewarding experience. See past the dps, speedy questing, quickly levelling, gearing, raiding, see the world through different lenses and you will discover a new aspect of wow. That aspect takes a unique form for everyone, and for me personally it is the reason I resubbed recently, not to raid but to experience being part of that world, at least through my trusty computer.

[mvaliz]

These two are the best posts I have read the last few months. They express my views not only in terms of flying, but in immersion generally. The same can be said about the portals (though things are a bit different there).

If you cannot understand the reasoning behind all this, think of trying to get immersed and engaged in the world like you would in a book or movie. It is a very rewarding experience. See past the dps, speedy questing, quickly levelling, gearing, raiding, see the world through different lenses and you will discover a new aspect of wow. That aspect takes a unique form for everyone, and for me personally it is the reason I resubbed recently, not to raid but to experience being part of that world, at least through my trusty computer.

I've got to say, beautifully written and very accurate!

That's why I like Wrath vs Cata so much... So what if the dungeons became 20 minute spamfest dungeons? I was having FUN experiencing those. Standing still stabbing the same trash pack in the back for 4 minutes at Cata launch isn't fun at all. If they made a happy medium and made the trash pack only 1 minute, things would've been better in my opinion.

As I said prior, I enjoyed perfectly how Wrath did it. I experienced the land, and when I got to 77 I felt like the world opened up to me! Kinda like how in the older Final Fantasies you obtained an airship and the world opens up to you... it felt like a WONDERFUL reward! For your alts, there was a book you can buy so you don't have to experience it a second time as you already experienced it once! (also why I love Heirloom items..)

Now, Imagine if you're given an airship in Final Fantasy right off the bat? Blech...

And I don't know where these people get off by saying "running across the land with 20 mobs on me". That never ever happened to me in Wrath. It sure did in BC as things were very crowded there... but not in Wrath for me.

Also I like it when I attack a Vrykul Village. I have to stealth in, work my way through and obtain something. Now I can just drop right next to a building, kill 2 guards, grab the item, and fly off again. Meh...

[Idoru]

These two are the best posts I have read the last few months. They express my views not only in terms of flying, but in immersion generally. The same can be said about the portals (though things are a bit different there).

If you cannot understand the reasoning behind all this, think of trying to get immersed and engaged in the world like you would in a book or movie. It is a very rewarding experience. See past the dps, speedy questing, quickly levelling, gearing, raiding, see the world through different lenses and you will discover a new aspect of wow. That aspect takes a unique form for everyone, and for me personally it is the reason I resubbed recently, not to raid but to experience being part of that world, at least through my trusty computer.

But the thing is, people play games for different reasons, and enjoy different things.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

I've got to say, beautifully written and very accurate!

That's why I like Wrath vs Cata so much... So what if the dungeons became 20 minute spamfest dungeons? I was having FUN experiencing those. Standing still stabbing the same trash pack in the back for 4 minutes at Cata launch isn't fun at all. If they made a happy medium and made the trash pack only 1 minute, things would've been better in my opinion.

As I said prior, I enjoyed perfectly how Wrath did it. I experienced the land, and when I got to 77 I felt like the world opened up to me! Kinda like how in the older Final Fantasies you obtained an airship and the world opens up to you... it felt like a WONDERFUL reward! For your alts, there was a book you can buy so you don't have to experience it a second time as you already experienced it once! (also why I love Heirloom items..)

Now, Imagine if you're given an airship in Final Fantasy right off the bat? Blech...

And I don't know where these people get off by saying "running across the land with 20 mobs on me". That never ever happened to me in Wrath. It sure did in BC as things were very crowded there... but not in Wrath for me.

Also I like it when I attack a Vrykul Village. I have to stealth in, work my way through and obtain something. Now I can just drop right next to a building, kill 2 guards, grab the item, and fly off again. Meh...

People are really acting like flying ruined the game. They can still implement quests like the ones you mentioned, and have plenty in caves or castles or houses where you stealth or turn into something or doing something fun...

For Final Fantasy, you work and get the airships later for ease of access for explorign what you've explored and getting to palces you previously couldn't. The work in WoW is 1-whatever without a flying mount. The FF Airship idea is a double edged sword. You can use it and say "I explored the world, and THEN I got it" and I can say "I got the Lunar Whale (FF2) so I can go to the moon and explore it, and get off and fight when I need to in caves and junk.". WoW let's you fly anywhere you want, then when you need to do something (ie. Dungeon, go in a cave of house, raid, etc.) you HAVE to get off. It's not like Blizzard is letting us fly inside BoT or Firelands...Most of our time is spent in flightless places: Dungeons, Raids, BG's, Arenas. Doesn't everyone realize that? You're better off complaining we don't have to run to dungeons anymore, and the random teleport is prepostrous...but no, let's pick on flying mounts, right? That being said...(refer to final paragraph).

Those 2 posts you quoted are the same as everyone else. "I think", "They shouldn't have", etc. You're looking to the past. I don't even think anyone is arguing anymore. We keep saying the same thing over and over; some people like flying mounts, some people don't.

Not [m]any people are saying "If Blizzard restricts flying mounts at first I will flip tables and un-subscribe", because we ALL did that already and will be fine with it again...It's mostly "I like flying mounts" or "I don't like flying mounts", the OP's main point is fine; whatever Blizzard does will work best for the zones we're going to experience.

[Pancaspe]

I love flying, I hope they are not so dumb as to take it away again.

[Daetur]

Quest between 80-85 on ground mount only then tell me this

You totally can. In fact, I enjoyed the aesthetics of Hyjal and Twilight Highlands so much in particular that I DID do most of it on my ground mount. It's a very different experience, and there are some lovely areas in Hyjal if you follow the path on the ground. Actually, I'm fairly certain that there are no questing hubs that can't be accessed from the ground in Hyjal, and there is only one quest I can think of that requires flight to reach the quest target.

You can stay grounded through most areas. I'm sorry that being "forced" to fly for 60 seconds to get to an otherwise inaccessible ledge ruins your gaming experience, but it seems incredibly silly to me that it does.

[derpkitteh]

i kinda hope they take them away :/
so sick of people going bitch-mode and flying off when i try to kill them. my favorite thing in the game, x-roads raids, are nothing but kill 2 or 3 guards, getting attaked and beat, then running away -_-*

[Frolk]

Ye, i remember how FUN it was to be ganked when ever i ran into a new zone by an pvp geared lvl70 when i was lvling in TBC...good moments... >_>

[Nevintsha]

A No fly zone wouldn't be to bad... I could easily just use my ground mount and pretend a no fly zone exists... But with the "knowing" that it is there makes me impatient so I hop back on my flying mount xD

[Coldpro]

i completely agree with this, slows down the pace of leveling a bit and makes the zone feel more engaging then just lol fly from point a to b and back to complete quest without paying any attention to the surroundings

This is why people didn't like having to use ground mounts in WOTLK until 77. 90% of the WoW population, even the casuals these days, want to hit the max level as soon as possible.

[MrWolly]

I'd like this. It would give me a chance to use some of my cool ground mounts more often, and I wouldn't blow my way to level cap in a week.

[Druid cookie]

I'm going to risk repeating something someone else has said because the whole thread seems toe saying the same thing over and over again: you cannot quest in cata without flying, and that flying removes the immersion experience.

So here is my opinion on the matter:

1) you can complete probably over 90+% of the quests in cata without a flying mount. Yes, there are a few that you cannot, but that's just it, there are only a few of them.

2) how does flying remove you from being immersed? What, did you suddenly stop looking at the game you are playing? I personally feel more immersed because I can see everything from any angle I want to. Ground-level AND the bird's eye view and every where in between. Not only do I get to go where I want to faster, I can take a different route every time or a different angle, and see something completely different almost every time.

3) flying around seems more heroic imo. We're supposed to be heroes, why should the hero come riding in on a silly horse or wolf? The hero should ride something impressive. Dragons and gryphons and wind riders are impressive.

4) the only thing stopping you from being immersed is yourself. Seriously. They made this game for us, it is awesome (actual definition, not the "that's cool" definition), it is literally huge, and you want to limit yourself to one view for it? That, to me, sounds like you want LESS immersion.

Just my 2 cents there, but seriously, running on ground mounts sucks and does limit the game in more ways than one.

[Falrinn]

Then get closer. Or fly closer to the ground; makes you feel like your going faster anyway.

Agreed. When I fly, I always do it very close to the ground. Feels a lot more fun when you are weaving through trees and buildings instead of just getting to a high altitude and hitting [Num Lock]. Honestly if all someone is seeing are blurry mountains, they are doing it wrong.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

To everyone posting:
...
Didn't you listen to the last round, meat head
Pay attention, you're sayin the same shit that he said
Matter fact, dog, here's a pencil
Go home, write some shit, make it suspenseful
And don't come back until something dope hits you
Fuck it, you can take the mic home with you
...
@Eminem in 8 mile.

Excuse the language. But this is how every post more than 2 pages goes, hahaha. I love it.

Here's this thread:
Flying is good/bad. Not being able to fly then being able to is good/bad. Flying takes/doesn't take away from the experience. The game is what you make of it.
/thread

[Deleted]

I've got to say, beautifully written and very accurate!

....

Also I like it when I attack a Vrykul Village. I have to stealth in, work my way through and obtain something. Now I can just drop right next to a building, kill 2 guards, grab the item, and fly off again. Meh...

I will only answer to the part I bolded, because I agree with most of the other stuff. I love flying, but it's been ok for me to not be able to do it until I got pretty far on ground mount....

What I bolded is one of the key things for me. I play a feral druid and I love stealthing around. I love doing quests horribly slow, when I stealth in, take what I have to take and sneak back out. I have fun with that.
But on my other toons I can't do that. On the ground I have to fight my way there, get my questitem or whatever, sometimes I have to look for it a little, so I have to fight aaaall the mobs in the area and once I'm done they're all back already and I have to kill them again. That annoys the hell out of me. It's not slower than stealthing around everywhere, which I sometimes do quite excesssively, because trying to avoid creepy looking things (even if they're 30 lvls lower than my toon^^), not getting caught and looking at everything up close is something that makes the game more exciting to me. But fighting the same mob going into a cave and going out again... then seeing you forgot something or didn't see a exclamation mark.... fighting all the way back in... urgh... And the cave is only an example, it's like that on other occasions too.
So I guess it's (again) a totally different thing if you have the choice to sneak around mobs or if you want to fight each and every mob. If that choice was taken away, it wouldn't be so nice anymore. And I think for those who can't sneak around them the only choice is fly or fight through to it. And if you take that choice away it's just as bad as if you weren't allowed to stealth around them anymore.

[Lansworthy]

I agree. I'd rather ride on a land mount and enjoy the new zones then fly over them and miss the views.

[mvaliz]

To everyone posting:
...
Didn't you listen to the last round, meat head
Pay attention, you're sayin the same shit that he said
Matter fact, dog, here's a pencil
Go home, write some shit, make it suspenseful
And don't come back until something dope hits you
Fuck it, you can take the mic home with you
...
@Eminem in 8 mile.

Excuse the language. But this is how every post more than 2 pages goes, hahaha. I love it.

Here's this thread:
Flying is good/bad. Not being able to fly then being able to is good/bad. Flying takes/doesn't take away from the experience. The game is what you make of it.
/thread

Because everybody is acting just like you. Shoving their fingers into their ears and shouting "NO NO NO NO NO!!!!"

People have an opinion, and they post it here. Hell, YOU are posting for reasons to not take it away and not even responding to what the OP said - when the OP is NOT saying to take it away completely, just for how they did it in Wrath.

---------- Post added 2011-10-14 at 07:36 PM ----------

I will only answer to the part I bolded, because I agree with most of the other stuff. I love flying, but it's been ok for me to not be able to do it until I got pretty far on ground mount....

What I bolded is one of the key things for me. I play a feral druid and I love stealthing around. I love doing quests horribly slow, when I stealth in, take what I have to take and sneak back out. I have fun with that.
But on my other toons I can't do that. On the ground I have to fight my way there, get my questitem or whatever, sometimes I have to look for it a little, so I have to fight aaaall the mobs in the area and once I'm done they're all back already and I have to kill them again. That annoys the hell out of me. It's not slower than stealthing around everywhere, which I sometimes do quite excesssively, because trying to avoid creepy looking things (even if they're 30 lvls lower than my toon^^), not getting caught and looking at everything up close is something that makes the game more exciting to me. But fighting the same mob going into a cave and going out again... then seeing you forgot something or didn't see a exclamation mark.... fighting all the way back in... urgh... And the cave is only an example, it's like that on other occasions too.
So I guess it's (again) a totally different thing if you have the choice to sneak around mobs or if you want to fight each and every mob. If that choice was taken away, it wouldn't be so nice anymore. And I think for those who can't sneak around them the only choice is fly or fight through to it. And if you take that choice away it's just as bad as if you weren't allowed to stealth around them anymore.

Thanks! Though I should say that my use of the word "Stealth" should've been more put as "attacking a side entrance" or something like that. As in I felt like a hit squad or a commando attacking a building before the alarms are raised. Weither you're a stealthy-type or not. :P

[Talen]

I really hope Blizzard decides to make the 85+ zones a no-fly zone till atleast lvl 90 (or whenever the max level will be) I remember the epic feel each new zone had when you was forced to explore it on ground level. I personally feel this is why the Cataclysm zones felt a little lacklustre to me due to the majority of time flying at a high level. After all one of the most epic feel I had in Wrath was climbing the vast mountain in Howling Fjord

Or it could be because Blizzard created just a few hi end zones, separated them out to ensure there was no epic sense is scale you get with a continent approach, ensured there was no thematic link between the zones to give them a unified feel and ensured the storyline of each zone was self contained so you didn't have to worry about where you were.

Blizzard made mistakes with Cataclysm. The inclusion of flying was not one of them.

The questing was too railroaded.
The stories too self contained.
There was no unity in theme.
There was no overarcing plot line to tie everything together.

There were just 5 separate zones, with their own individual storylines and enemies and looks and vague references to a dragon that tied those enemies together.

Then there are the minor elements - making enemies tougher, for example, really just ensured you took longer to kill them as opposed to making them a challenge. This dropped a lot of the heroic feel, the feeling that you, as a hero, are able to wade through a whole host of MoBs and survive without any compensating challenge. It just made questing and levelling a grind. Blizzard would have done better to have "mini-bosses" - something soloale, but truly challenging - rather than make each MoB take 15secs to kills instead of 10.

EJL

[furriusmurrius]

I love flying everywhere and can't stand zones that arbitrarily take away my dragon or hawk or whatever's knowledge of FLAPPING THEIR WINGS. Sorry. It's an inconvenience and anyone that thinks disallowing flying will improve the leveling experience there are just as many that will be pissed about it...