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  1. #221
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Hello everyone!
    Been a bit swamped recently so I haven't had time for the long replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelbak-Illidan View Post
    Hey guys, I've recently started playing my arms warrior in a casual weekend guild for fun and stuff and was wondering if there's anything I can do to increase my DPS, being as competitive as I am. I'm always looking for ways to improve myself. That being said I do know that I have semi leveled/not good proffs on my character and I'll be dropping them when I have some time to actually play the game. Any feedback would be great! also I know my offspec has prot glyphs :P I just switched it to a more AoE based spec for Yor'sahj heroic progression next week.

    anyways heres my armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yqtxo/advanced

    And our logs for this week: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-26x8lm0caeggw0e0/
    Armory looks good, no glaring flaws to fix.

    For ability usage I'm looking at the Zon'ozz normal kill.
    Mortal strike looks slightly low (1 MS every 5.3s). In my book if the average time between MSs is higher than 5 seconds on a nuke fight then it is not good enough. Overpower looks good, Slam looks low. No Heroic Leap usage for dps, if you're as competitive as you say then this is definitely worth doing! Fill time between GCDs with Heroic Leap, use it when CS is on the target. CS usage was good on Zon'ozz.

    Depending on how long this fight usually takes for you you could change your cooldown usage a bit. If you know for sure that you'll only get 2 Deadly Calms then save the second one for the Execute phase. You could also consider delaying the first one until the first Black Blood phase if this is the case. (Though this is greatly reliant on you actually knowing how long the fight will take, don't risk losing out on a DC use!)

    Also taking a quick glance at Ultraxion. You overwrote both of your 4t13 procs with manual CSs. Judging by my own experiences I think you should be able to use Inner Rage more than you did in this fight. That also goes for Berserker Rage. You should be able to use the first Inner Rage just as your first Deadly Calm ends. Also, it is preferable to use Deadly Calm right before Reck, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namitsoo View Post
    Arms,31/7/3
    397iLvl
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...itsoo/advanced
    Expectation: min. 35k DPS@ Ultraxion HC
    Personally I feel that 35k is a low expectation, you should be able to do quite a bit more most of the time. (easily above 40k)
    If you're having trouble with Gurthalak on Ultraxion then take a look at this:



    It's a pretty picture featuring me and my warrior's crappy raid... dead on the ground
    For Gurthalak to work, you want to stand between the two red lines.

    Now, in terms of how you play.
    MS and OP usage is good. Slam, however, is used too little but the most important thing here is that you didn't use Heroic Strike even once. Zero times. I'm hoping this is the result of a broken macro or something because 0 uses of HS is just unacceptable :P
    You could also add Heroic Leap into your repertoire for a few extra hundred dps.
    You're overwriting a great deal of your 4t13 procs with manual CSs.

    Cooldowns:
    You only used your Orc racial once, should be three times.
    You didn't use Deadly Calm at all, should also be three times.
    You didn't use any dps potions.
    You used Recklessness early, in a fight where you can only use it once, use it during the Execute phase.
    You didn't use Inner Rage at all but since you didn't use Heroic Strike this isn't really a big deal.

    Fix your Heroic Strike usage and get start on the proper use of cooldowns and you'll see a huge improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayhn View Post
    iLvl: 392
    Armoury: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Rayhn/simple
    Expectation: I feel I can get a bit more considering the gear I have and I'm not happy with the consistency of my DPS, it varies too much and I want to sort that out.

    This is a log from our raid trying Ultraxion 25 hc, have a look through all the attempts if you can because my DPS is up and down a lot.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...?s=1731&e=1834
    Ok, first off, Arms is a very RNG dependent spec, especially when 4t13 and Gurth gets involved. Your dps won't be very consistent no matter what you do. People often don't think about and/or notice this because the RNG doesn't affect what buttons you press all that much, unlike something like a Fire Mage where not getting Hot Streak procs is incredibly frustrating to the player.

    That said I had a look at a bunch of the tries and this is my impression of ability usage.
    MS use looks a bit low, spam the button more. OP looks good. Slam looks low. HS use should be higher on heroic ultraxion but it's not really fair to judge since damage taken ramps up and I'm not looking at kills here. You're not using Heroic Leap for dps. You sometimes overwrite your 4t13 proc with a manual CS.

    For cooldown usage I'm going to look at the normal mode kill, attempts are really no good to use for this kind of thing. (Honestly, kills are always preferred for analyzing anything)

    Berserker Rage can easily be used more than it is now.
    Short fight means you save Reck until the Execute phase, your first heroic kill will likely allow for two uses though!
    You're seemingly not using any dps potions on the kill, this may just be because pre-pots don't show unless you use a second potion in the fight.
    For the normal mode kill I would save the second DC for the Execute phase. Basically start the Execute phase with potion+dc then use Recklessness as soon as DC wears off. For your Heroic attempts the same thing applies but to the third DC instead of the second.

  2. #222
    Blademaster Rayhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post

    That said I had a look at a bunch of the tries and this is my impression of ability usage.
    MS use looks a bit low, spam the button more. OP looks good. Slam looks low. HS use should be higher on heroic ultraxion but it's not really fair to judge since damage taken ramps up and I'm not looking at kills here. You're not using Heroic Leap for dps. You sometimes overwrite your 4t13 proc with a manual CS.

    Berserker Rage can easily be used more than it is now.
    Short fight means you save Reck until the Execute phase, your first heroic kill will likely allow for two uses though!
    You're seemingly not using any dps potions on the kill, this may just be because pre-pots don't show unless you use a second potion in the fight.
    For the normal mode kill I would save the second DC for the Execute phase. Basically start the Execute phase with potion+dc then use Recklessness as soon as DC wears off. For your Heroic attempts the same thing applies but to the third DC instead of the second.
    Thanks for the advice, I've just recently got powa auras to show when CS is up so hopefully I stop overwriting it from now on, I do try with HS as much as possible it's just a pain in the ass when I use it at the wrong time and end up with low rage for the next 10 seconds of the fight so I'm sometimes hesistant, (bring on Fury in 5.0).

    I was pre-potting but as you said it doesn't show unless I use the second which I was saving for the end on Ultraxion, (hopefully next week when people learn when to push the button I can ).

    Also just a question to reaffirm I'm doing it right, in the execute phase is it MS>CS(offCD)>OP>Execute - we completely ignore slam right?
    Lian Li PC-7FNWX | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z77 Mpower | i5 2500k | EVGA GTX 670 | Intel 520 120GB | WD Green 3TB | Corsair 8GB

  3. #223
    Hey. I'm pretty new to playing arms. But I think that i've learned quickly and got the hang of most of it, what I wonder though is if there's anything I could improve even the slightest? Will post a link from a ultraxion kill this week.


    Thanks. <3

    worldoflogs(dot)com/reports/jwxf5bxrfwozcnrn/details/8/?s=5449&e=5746

    Here's my armory: eu(dot)battle(dot)net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Fredd%C3%ACe/advanced

  4. #224
    Looks pretty good freddie, you got 54 out of 59 MS so there is a little room for improvement there. Would use recklessness sub 20% instead of at the start. Could get berserker stance uptime a little closer to 75% instead of the 61%.

    Would put a orange epic gem in the ring they're cheap (with ~0,75 SEP value for crit it's worth it) and some of the BiS gear can use some epic gems as well. Rest looks good maybe the ultraxion trinket to replace the vp one.

  5. #225
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayhn View Post
    Also just a question to reaffirm I'm doing it right, in the execute phase is it MS>CS(offCD)>OP>Execute - we completely ignore slam right?
    Yes, that is correct. However, you only want to use OP if you can do it without losing rage due to stance swaps. Also, if you get so much rage that you can't burn through it even with HS on CD then just skip OP and use Execute instead (This tends to happen on the last phase of Madness for instance). Some people opt to just stay in Berserker Stance and exclude OP completely. Some people only use MS if Rend is about to fall off or Wrecking Crew is not active.
    Truth be told, all these strategies are very similar in dps and it doesn't matter too much which one you use.

    Quote Originally Posted by freddiesaurus View Post
    Hey. I'm pretty new to playing arms. But I think that i've learned quickly and got the hang of most of it, what I wonder though is if there's anything I could improve even the slightest? Will post a link from a ultraxion kill this week.
    You need to spam MS more. Your Slam use is also very, very low (probably because of putting to high a prio on HS).
    I also want to compliment you on using Heroic Leap because most people don't! However, on one of the leaps Colossus Smash was not active on the boss when you used it.
    Two out of five of your 4t13 procs were overwritten by manual CSs.

    Looking at cooldown usage I think you could probably use Inner Rage just a bit more.
    You should also try to make a greater effort to fit both DC and Reck inside the pre-pot when you decide to use Reck early. In this fight however, as was already pointed out, you should have saved Reck until the Execute phase since the fight wasn't long enough to use Reck twice.
    Your second potion use is quite far from ideal. The potion has almost completely run out when you get to use your DC and Blood Fury. It would have been far better to hold on to the potion and DC until your trinket was off-CD and then use them all together since there is no chance for an additional use at this point.
    If Reck had been saved the idea usage would have been to first pop DC+Potion. When DC has 3 seconds remaining, pop Blood Fury, Trinket and Reck.

  6. #226
    hey guys just downed herioc ultraxion once again
    heres a nice new log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6900&e=7197
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaeco/advanced
    armoury link
    any tips on how i can better myself once again? i noticed my weapon didnt proc alot either

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by exblithion View Post
    i noticed my weapon didnt proc alot either
    Just a quick head's up. There are reports and it is being investigated that Voice of the deeps has Procing/Damaging issues on Ultraxion any mode.
    While you may be within Melee range you may be a bit too far away for the tenticals to attack. What i have found is that you need to be a most halfway across the platform (in front on ultra) for the tenticals to attack

  8. #228
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    Hey folks I went Arms about a month or so ago and I'm still learning new things as I go along like macros here and there that help out and figured I'd post something up on here since my dps is still lacking a lot in my raid group ranging from last to right next to it. Could use some help to get myself caught up with everyone else in the group. Some general help, boss fight tips and anything else would be great! Thanks for the help!

    Armory:*http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rmarn/advanced

    WoL Links: Morchok 25H:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r5...?s=1266&e=1562
    * * * * * * * *Warlord 25N:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r5...?s=2351&e=2581
    * * * * * * * *Ultrax 25H Attempts:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=2701&e=3006
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=4011&e=4371
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=5031&e=5319
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=3266&e=3553

    Put a lot of Ultrax attempts in there to help balance it out since I wasn't in for the kill.

  9. #229
    Mechagnome Requiel's Avatar
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    hi guys*I've*just recently switched to arms and I need a few pointers to improve my dps, first off should I skip OP in execute phase with 200ms or should i keep doing OP. ive done a LFR ultrax so you can see if ive done my rotation right*

    logs: www worldoflogs com/reports/t94uzn2obwt6a3n7/sum/damageDone/?s=390&e=609
    armory: us.battle net/wow/en/character/thaurissan/Requiel/advanced

    dot is mising from www and com since i cant post links yet

  10. #230
    Field Marshal Jolty92's Avatar
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    For people to check logs /armory faster.

    Edit: I'm not too familiar with logs, but from what I see, your dps seems good. I'm about the same gear as you and you pretty much do as much as I do.
    Last edited by Jolty92; 2012-03-08 at 10:25 AM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackuli View Post
    Hey folks I went Arms about a month or so ago and I'm still learning new things as I go along like macros here and there that help out and figured I'd post something up on here since my dps is still lacking a lot in my raid group ranging from last to right next to it. Could use some help to get myself caught up with everyone else in the group. Some general help, boss fight tips and anything else would be great! Thanks for the help!

    Armory:*http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rmarn/advanced

    WoL Links: Morchok 25H:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r5...?s=1266&e=1562
    * * * * * * * *Warlord 25N:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r5...?s=2351&e=2581
    * * * * * * * *Ultrax 25H Attempts:*http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=2701&e=3006
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=4011&e=4371
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=5031&e=5319
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tc...?s=3266&e=3553

    Put a lot of Ultrax attempts in there to help balance it out since I wasn't in for the kill.
    Fix your MS usage and you'll see an improvement. Your MS usage is once every 7+ seconds on the first 3 logs. 8+ on Morchok. For an attack that only has a 4.5s CD and highest on the prio list, you need to use it much more often. Get used to MS GCD GCD MS.

    You used Bladestorm and Sweeping Strikes....twice, on Morchok?? Why? There aren't any adds in the encounter nor do you have his twin side by side. Don't waste GCDs on abilities that serve no purpose on an encounter. Especially brostorm as you're stuck swinging in the breeze unless cancelling. That's 12s total of wasted GCDs.

    It doesn't appear you stance dance. Because you said you went Arms a month or so ago, I suppose you're getting used to the spec. At the same time though, you want better dps, you should stance dance. Sooner than later tbh. Check out the Arms PVE sticky.

    You have 4pT13 but didn't use Inner Rage once. Line your Blood Fury up with Deadly Calm.

    Boss fight tips are something you should develop yourself because they revolve around how your guild functions. Specifically look at the time your guild takes on average to down a specific boss. On Morchok, you took just under 5 mins. So Reck can be used once. You should have saved that for the exec phase. Deadly Calm can be used twice. Burn one in the beginning and save another just before exec phase to build rage. Then burn Reck after.

    Xenok made a good video on stance dancing and Arms rotation. Give it a look over: Arms/Dance 101

    Keep at it, those numbers will go up.

  12. #232
    @jackuli: VP chest is an upgrade until you get the hc ultraxion chest.
    Dps is pretty terrible here is a few things you can improve on(looking at one of the ultraxion tries):
    - you're not standing in the right spot for gurthalak to work easily missing 3-4k dps, Lohe got a nice picture where to stand on the top of this page
    - MS usage is very low 49 out of the expected 72, should have an MS>2other abilities>MS>2abilities>MS etc.
    - Very low amount of heroic strikes
    - Low usage of berserker rage
    - Should be able to use both deadly calm and recklessness during your prepot
    - Bladestorm shouldn't be used single target and sweeping strikes on ultraxion really???
    - You should have near 75% uptime on beserker stance instead of 44% and near 25% uptime on battlestance instead of 54%, what works for me is just using the stancedance macro's for each ability.
    - No inner rage??

    @requiel: Looks good, would save recklessness for sub20% and you didn't prepot only used it with recklessness. Could use heroic leap for some extra damage once you're comfortable enough with arms to use it.
    Last edited by bigbad; 2012-03-08 at 12:03 PM.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heirak View Post
    Fix your MS usage and you'll see an improvement. Your MS usage is once every 7+ seconds on the first 3 logs. 8+ on Morchok. For an attack that only has a 4.5s CD and highest on the prio list, you need to use it much more often. Get used to MS GCD GCD MS.

    You used Bladestorm and Sweeping Strikes....twice, on Morchok?? Why? There aren't any adds in the encounter nor do you have his twin side by side. Don't waste GCDs on abilities that serve no purpose on an encounter. Especially brostorm as you're stuck swinging in the breeze unless cancelling. That's 12s total of wasted GCDs.

    It doesn't appear you stance dance. Because you said you went Arms a month or so ago, I suppose you're getting used to the spec. At the same time though, you want better dps, you should stance dance. Sooner than later tbh. Check out the Arms PVE sticky.

    You have 4pT13 but didn't use Inner Rage once. Line your Blood Fury up with Deadly Calm.

    Boss fight tips are something you should develop yourself because they revolve around how your guild functions. Specifically look at the time your guild takes on average to down a specific boss. On Morchok, you took just under 5 mins. So Reck can be used once. You should have saved that for the exec phase. Deadly Calm can be used twice. Burn one in the beginning and save another just before exec phase to build rage. Then burn Reck after.

    Xenok made a good video on stance dancing and Arms rotation. Give it a look over: Arms/Dance 101

    Keep at it, those numbers will go up.
    Hey I read over the thing and spent a lot of time rearranging my action bar with all those stance swapping macros and I can already see a huge difference. I'm hittin 50-60k in heroics now and did a little over 45k in the LFR I just ran rather than my usual 35k. I'm gonna keep practicing till I get it totally but thank you so much for the help!

    @bigbad thanks, I'm only 100 VP away from my chest but I'm capped so that'll have to wait till next week haha and I'm gonna keep practicing with using more MS but the stance dancing macros really helped me out. thanks for the help!

  14. #234
    Hey guys, I'm running out of ideas. I'm constantly trying to fix my rotation and etc. but I just haven't found a cause for my low dps. In raids, I'll average about 22 - 26k dps in my current gear and I'm thinking that's low, even for my ilvl. I've got my rotation down, including stance-dancing, macros, etc. but it's just not as high as I think it could be.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...of/Viiv/simple

    Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong would be very, very helpful.

  15. #235
    This is more for my guild mate who I get the feeling is under performing on heroic ultraxion as an arms warrior.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...leman/advanced
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2n...?s=6351&e=6642

    Post above is his armory and the most recent world of logs post. Is he in the ballpark for how much damage he should be pulling?
    His dps isn't completely unsatisfactory, but I get the feeling it should be higher from what I hear about warriors having a surplus of rage on this fight specifically.

    Is there anything blatant that stands out immediately that I could ask him to work on?

  16. #236
    Hi

    Here's my warrior on Armory eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sylvanas/Elroar/simple

    Unfortunately I cannot give any parses at the moment, for some reason or another the combat log comes out all wrong before. Think it is fixed now, will have to do a DS run to log something. If I can even get to raid, no one wants a fury warrior it seems And no, I will not change to Arms. Absolutely hate it in PVE.
    I will edit this post if I can, inserting my parse log when I get them.

    Meanwhile, can anyone point me in the direction on what to do? My dps seems far too low, I can't get over 30k on any normal DS fight, less than 40k on Madness. Average staying around 25k. (All of this as last week).
    At start of DS I was number 2 on the charts for damage done, behind our rogue with legendaries. Our first Ultraxion kill was with me on 25k on 385 ilvl, everyone else around the same with dps and ilvl aswell. As we went along, people got gear and their dps increased rapidly, but me at the moment has not seen any same dps increase. Now I'm stuck at 29.5k dps on Ultrazion, with 396 ilvl. 10 item levels up on everyone in group, everyone else going 35 to 40k. That is an increase of 15k for everyone but me with just less than 5k.

    I know there is nothing absolutely wrong with my rotation, talents, uptime and my proc warnings (Power Auras is what I use, and it does it perfectly). I have spent far too much time on dummys too only make very tiny mistakes. But nothing can still answer as to why I keep getting so low dps.
    For that matter, when I pop Death Wish, I only seem to get less than 1k dps increase, even fully raid buffed. Is this normal? (It is at 29% physical damage increase with current mastery rating)
    Any thoughts on any of my problems? Not looking to get top dps, only competitive, which clearly is not the case for me. Near as possible as to the rest of my guild is what I am looking for.

    Cheers

    Edit! Here is the latest parse. It was a pug run so I was not completely accustomed to the group. Might have done some mistakes there and there.

    worldoflogs.com/reports/kdmxyzfzhs3kbyj7/details/3/
    Last edited by KrakinTauren; 2012-03-13 at 03:31 PM. Reason: More info available

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozled View Post
    Hey guys, I'm running out of ideas. I'm constantly trying to fix my rotation and etc. but I just haven't found a cause for my low dps. In raids, I'll average about 22 - 26k dps in my current gear and I'm thinking that's low, even for my ilvl. I've got my rotation down, including stance-dancing, macros, etc. but it's just not as high as I think it could be.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...of/Viiv/simple

    Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong would be very, very helpful.
    Judging from your toon's raid experience I'd say you don't have as much down as you say you do. Also, without a combat log, we have no way of seeing what you're actually doing vs saying.

    The obvious:
    You're completely un-glyphed. Read the PVE sticky
    Your next VP purchase should be the ranged slot. Lootlist to aim for
    Run your toon through www.wowreforge.com to optimize your reforges (nearly 1% over cap)

    Practice more. As said, you don't look to have much experience on that warrior. Read and re-read the stickies. Check out Xenok's videos for a good starting point.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-11 at 07:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BDF View Post
    This is more for my guild mate who I get the feeling is under performing on heroic ultraxion as an arms warrior.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...leman/advanced
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2n...?s=6351&e=6642

    Post above is his armory and the most recent world of logs post. Is he in the ballpark for how much damage he should be pulling?
    His dps isn't completely unsatisfactory, but I get the feeling it should be higher from what I hear about warriors having a surplus of rage on this fight specifically.

    Is there anything blatant that stands out immediately that I could ask him to work on?
    ATM- he is logged out in Pvp gear. Can't judge too well for gear.

    With respect to the fight:
    -He is using Brostorm in that encounter...why?
    -He doesn't stance dance.
    -He isn't specced into Executioner which is much better than booming voice. Once stacked fully, he'll be attacking 25% faster during the last 20% of the boss's HP provided he keeps the stacks up.
    -His main attack prio is Mortal Strike, and he is slacking on it's usage. Fight length is 4:51 which on paper can net him 64 MS hits. Generally though, aiming for an MS every 5.5s is good. His number is once every 7.2s which is low.

  18. #238
    Hey guys. Would it be possible to analyze my Log of HC Ultraxion 25m from last Thursday? Because my gear is not the best at the moment (trying to close the gear gap after a retirement before Firelands) I don't really know how competitive my dps is in regards to other players. Currently the gear has improved to ilvl 392. By the time of the kill it was aroung 385. Simcraft showed for that gear 40k Dps. Thank you in advance.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9134&e=9474

    Do you have the same problem that sometimes you MS => Slam => (CS on cooldown) the OP procc is just 0.5sec short in order to not clip MS, so that you have the wait for ~ 1.25sec and use NOTHING, in order to not delay a MS? It just happens rarely, but sometimes.

    Armory:

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...C3%A9ex/simple
    Craaw - Frostwolf EU - Jade Falcons 14/14hc

  19. #239
    @crawmode: Ability usage looks good nice amount of MS, HS & OP. Missing second potion and 3rd deadly calm in the end also executioner dropped once.

    Unless you delay somewhere with stancedancing you should be able to MS>2abilities>MS>2abilities etc without any waiting or delay. Don't wait on OP procs as long as you use it within 5 secs its good.

    Using T12 hc chest/legs sims higher for me then using 384 T13 chest/legs until you get one 410 piece, might be an option if you have those.

  20. #240
    thank you bigbad. Yes I do have t12 chest / legs HC but I was kind of unsure if its really that big of an advantage. I did several simcraft runs and it was ahead of t13 chest / legs LFR quality. But the sockets on the the t12 are worse (yellow) and the legs are missing one socket. So strength is a little bit lower I guess. But I'll give it a try then. Thought the 12% CS procc of T13 is way better than the 10% more dmg after shout for ARMS. I could think it T12 hc > T13 LFR for Fury (because shout on CD and CS procc on T13 is way lower).

    I always do MS => CS => OP => MS => Slam => OP => MS => Slam => and SOMETIMES at this stage OP procc is short 0.2-0.4sec. But I haven't found a reason for that yet, perhaps a delay as you said. Though perhaps just a training issue (Already spent hours at the dummy.. ;-) ).

    In addition to that I saw that my Gurth procc dmg is only 0.5%. I think I (or we, because the whole raid has so low Gurth proccs) is standing at the wrong position hm?
    Craaw - Frostwolf EU - Jade Falcons 14/14hc

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