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  1. #41
    MAN. Mest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    It was mentioned in a thread on Dungeons & Raids that I should be doing a lot more DPS as a tank - I hover around the 9-10k mark usually on fights without bonus mechanics (e.g. HM Majordomo, Alys). Supposedly this is way low with my gear. I co-tank with a Druid who does about 14k on average and has spiked up to like 18k or so sometimes.

    Normal priority is SS > Devastate > Revenge. SB is used every time it's up unless I know a big spike is coming and need to save it. Str/Mastery Avengers trinket is used whenever up (normal trinkets are Mirror + Essence, switching out as needed), but is not macro'd to anything (I might macro it to Inner Rage/Heroic Strike). I have Inner Rage macro'd to Heroic Strike and Cleave. I usually have 4pc T12, but always at least have my 2pc bonus. I normally use Retaliation on the pull or immediately after except where there's a delay (e.g. Beth'tilac, Rhyolith, Alysrazor). I usually don't use Recklessness unless I'm not directly tanking the boss so I don't risk dying from the +20% extra damage. I'm specced 8/2/31 with 3/3 Deep Wounds, 2/2 Cruelty and 3/3 Incite.

    Here's the log from Friday: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3gzivegnbeiofur5/ (Druid had connection issues so we had a DPS use his not great tank set, and he had not tanked Firelands before so that's why there are wipes on easy bosses)
    and here's from Saturday: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2bgx305jbu2s754y/ (same tank, so hence issues on Rag after HM Majordomo. Killed him Sunday with a different second tank, but didn't log it)

    Can anyone take a look and provide any pointers or mistakes that I'm doing (or anything glaringly wrong with the raid itself? I know this is the Warrior forum though, so I'm mainly focused on myself)? If I'm not operating at my full potential I need to know so I can improve it, but other than perhaps missing a HS here or there I can't find anything that I'm doing wrong if I should be doing a lot more DPS than I am currently.
    Going through your logs it seems like you could improve your Sword & Board-tracking. You occasionally Devastate/Revenge rather than Shield Slam immediately. I'd suggest you get WeakAuras and make an entry for Sword & Board and make it very visible.

    What's your latency? There's sometimes 2-ish seconds between your GCD abilities in the logs.

    A few quickies:

    * Never waste a GCD on Retaliation single or even duo-target. If it's just before a pull of when you're waiting for an Hatchling to spawn or whatever, then sure, but not otherwise.

    * Don't bother with Revenge on single target. It's seldom worth it. You may even want to drop the points you've invested in Improved Revenge - it's just bad right now.

    * Concussion Blow is good with some Vengeance, but strictly only as a filler ability (when S&B has failed to proc twice) and both Shockwave and Rend have higher priority as fillers. As a matter of fact, you should never have to use Concussion Blow if you put up/refresh Rend as your primary filler and Shockwave as your secondary filler, unless you have to save Shockwave for something. That's assuming your Feral is present in the raid for the bleed damage debuff.

    * Don't macro trinkets to anything. If you use your STR trinket (which I really don't think anybody should wear - it's such a waste of a good trinket effect just to gain some passive mastery) at a bad time you won't be able to use your Mirror of Broken Images.

    * Consider macroing Inner Rage to Shield Block instead. It's not ideal in all scenarios, but overall you should be able to get more Heroic Strikes out as you're the most likely to have a lot of rage with Shield Block up (ie: you're almost always in aggro when you SB and you'll probably block more attacks).

    * Prepot Golemsblood, because, why not.

    That's all I can think of.

  2. #42
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I think it might be because I "spam" buttons. Like sometimes I'll hit Dev then hit it again just as it comes up but in that split second ill have sword n board so I will use Dev first and have to wait a gcd to use SS.

    I currently use Power Aura to track SnB procs. Maybe it needs to be more visible.
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  3. #43
    I am hoping you can help me help a fury warrior friend of mine. We are doing heroic Shannox/Domo and he is barely keeping up with a feral druid that has a much lower ilvl(10 points). The druid also is missing 2 enchants. On both of those fights he is just on the boss(other than taking traps if one is near). Last week we worked on creating a burst macro and one that tied his 1 min trinket to CS. Just to note. His legs were 378 at the time of the log. He won the upgrade last night.


    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yi2cdowto1fwvq9g/

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rogon/advanced

  4. #44
    Your friend isn't using a flask or food, is not prepotting or potting mid-fight. Judging by Shannox log, he's also using BT on 6s cd instead of 3s. He used 4 bloodsurge procs out of 9 he got. He used his AoK trinket only once when it was possible to use it again for execute phase. Something tells me that he's also spamming heroic strike when he shouldn't be.
    quit

  5. #45
    Thanks for the info. I will let him know about the slam procs/BT. I know the macro we created to use recklessness had a POT in it. Where is it that you see(or more don't see) him having a food buff. I tried finding something on my toon(Ragif) and didn't find anything under buffs. Also looked in the log itself, but didn't see anything glaring at me.

    <Edit>
    Never mind. Found the well fed buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Damnagoras View Post
    Your friend isn't using a flask or food, is not prepotting or potting mid-fight. Judging by Shannox log, he's also using BT on 6s cd instead of 3s. He used 4 bloodsurge procs out of 9 he got. He used his AoK trinket only once when it was possible to use it again for execute phase. Something tells me that he's also spamming heroic strike when he shouldn't be.
    Last edited by Figar; 2011-11-09 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #46
    Yeah my bad with the food, he's using that alright.
    quit

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans Agallochh's Avatar
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    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0j3vm...?s=3744&e=3924 my Baleroc Parse last week.

    Keep in mind my Fury gear isn't amazing (still have some blues lol) but I'd love if someone can analyze my C/D usage and ability usage.

    I don't go Fury often (3 FL fights) so i'm sure there are things I can refine. I'm also taking crystals and some of my attention goes to making sure those are being handled efficiently.

    Well, go on, tear me a new one.

    Also, feel free to analyze the H:Majordomo parses, keeping in mind it's my duty as Off-Tank to soak orbs (man I hate bitch duty when I pull better #s than some of our other melee).

    I'm also Fury for Rhyolith, if you'd like to analyze those.

    Not really here for any prot analyzing since I'm pretty good at it.
    Last edited by Agallochh; 2011-11-09 at 10:54 PM.
    90 Orc Warrior - Ganglion | 90 Draenei Hunter - Fleshgrind

  8. #48
    This thread could be useful!

    I've never really been fury before. I'm sort of trying it out on the side, but I would love to improve it because I actually wouldn't mind going main spec fury. I got a parse to help myself analyze what I can fix to get better. Can any of you lend me any tips to make my damage more competitive? I feel like I can ooze a little more dps with my gear, lackluster though it is.

    Here's my armory, but keep in mind I haven't really raided this tier and that I'm normally prot, so my gear choices aren't exactly.. optimal. I've taken what upgrades I could get.

    And the parse.

    Thanks in advance!

  9. #49
    Armory: /wow/de/character/gorgonnash/Yuuri/simple
    WoL: /reports/rt-yva72zh8x778vp7n/
    sry i needed to separate the links so i can post them.^^ Its my first post hier on mmo-champion thats the reason why i cant post links^^

    To be honest, I am not sure if my dps is good or to low. I startet playing fury warrior a month ago and i have no idea how strong the class is and if i am doing everything right. I allready know that i need to use my CDs more often and to use prepot and infightpot.
    Another thing that i have noticed is that there are much times when i have no ragebuffs up so i cant use RB. I dont know if thats just me or a problem with my stats.

    I would love to get a analyses and to get some tipps. thanks.

    Edit: sry for my poor english =D

  10. #50
    Gear has poor reforging overall + some bad gems and suboptimal enchants. Post your armory link in "Rate the Fury warr thead" and I'm sure Quenios will help you with that since he always does it for everyone (guessing he's bored :.3)
    On your Baleroc log you seem to be spamming execute sub 20% with CS kept on cd, dont do that.
    Instead follow an BT-exe-BT rotation after you've reached 5stacks of exe.
    (Also dont save reck for 20% phase if fight >than 4min as Fury, not worth the loss in start where you should have it tied with heroism, tell your guild to use it then instead of end of fight).
    Other than that your HS shouldn't be over Raging blow on breakdowns but then again its only a 2min fight, might not be representative but either way: CS > BT > RB > slam procc and HS above 60 rage generally

  11. #51
    I know that RB should be over HS. I got my weakauras set so it shows me when i got above 65 rage. Then i use my HS. Well and if i got the Battletrance proc. The third case where i use HS is when i got no rageeffekt on my for like 4 sec and i got no Beserkersrage off CD. So I use it instead of RB to not waste my rage.
    So its a bit confusing why my HS is above my RB.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-15 at 03:31 PM ----------

    Ah and what are the benefits from using a BT-exe-BT rotation?? Doesn´t exe hit harder?

  12. #52
    MAN. Mest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuri View Post
    I know that RB should be over HS. I got my weakauras set so it shows me when i got above 65 rage. Then i use my HS. Well and if i got the Battletrance proc. The third case where i use HS is when i got no rageeffekt on my for like 4 sec and i got no Beserkersrage off CD. So I use it instead of RB to not waste my rage.
    So its a bit confusing why my HS is above my RB.
    Above 65 rage? That's a tad too low imo, it should be on the border to when some bad RNG like badly timed white swings or misses may end up delaying your BTs. 75 to 80-ish is more reasonable.

    Also you shouldn't reactively use Heroic Strike to your rage level, unless you bar it very high. If you, for instance, just used a Raging Blow and a Heroic Strike and then use Bloodthirst again, then you've just spent 80 rage over 3 seconds, or ~27 rage per second. On an encounter like, say, Baleroc your rage should avarage to perhaps 10-13 depending on raid comp and gear. Spending twice as much rage per second than you gain, even if only for a short while, may end up bad. What I'm saying is you should avoid using RB and HS together (unless you're at the end of a CS duration and still want to burn more rage) to minimize the risk of ending up delaying your BTs.

    There's also Flurry which may be worthwhile to consider. Other than during Colossus Smash, the best time to use Heroic Strike is when Flurry isn't up, because Heroic Strike may crit and proc Flurry for you. Increasing Flurry uptime will increase your overall rage gained per second which in turn will result in more white damage and more Heroic Strikes which, in turn, further increases your Flurry uptime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuri View Post
    Ah and what are the benefits from using a BT-exe-BT rotation?? Doesn´t exe hit harder?
    There are many reasons to use BT - Exe - BT. It's partly due to rage spent per second; you can't normally support spamming Execute. Secondly, yes Execute hits harder than Bloodthirst, roughly 33% harder I believe, but it also costs 50% more rage. The rage you save from using Bloodthirst rather than Execute adds up to additional Heroic Strikes or additional Executes between Bloodthirsts, plus you may proc Battle Trance (and Bloodsurge, should RNG or whatever completely screw you over).

    Basically you primarily Execute to stack up and keep up Executioner, then use Execute over your regular fillers if you have the rage. Even if you can use double Executes doesn't mean you should, because proccing Battle Trance and saving rage with Bloodthirst will in and by itself increase the amount of damage your Execute does and increase the amount of Executes you can perform.

    TL;DR: BT - Exe - BT increases the amount of Executes you can do and increases the damage they do by saving you rage. If you, however, just popped Heroism and cannot even burn all your rage with Inner Raged Heroic Strikes, then sure spam Execute until your stacks are full.

  13. #53
    You would not want to use Heroic Strike in the Execute phase unless your at serious risk of going over Rage cap while spamming Execute. (Rage income > Execute Dump) Or when you get BT -> (Battle Trance Proc) Exe -> BT+HS (if your near cap thinking that Exe would save you).

  14. #54
    ^ This.

    Don't really touch Heroic Strike during execute phase, unless you will hit 100 rage for sure.

  15. #55
    Registered just for this - so the links are ..not links. Sorry! ^^

    I'm playing a DPS warrior. I'm Arms at the moment, as it seems to suit me best, and since I'm using the stun on Rag sons I'm more or less required. I don't think there's really something wrong with my DPS. I'm almost always top 3 with around 22k-23k DPS. This is more of a 'check-up' to see what numbers I should be hitting and if I can do better. As for my rotation, I know my prio's: CS when up and not running -> OP -> MS -> HS/Slam. I use these last two based on how much rage I have and based on how much I expect from the next hit(s), more sorta 'feeling' it rather than knowing the exact rotation.

    I should add that I'm using my 'medium' cooldowns like Berserker Rage, Deadly Calm etc. on a collapsed macro under Mortal Strike. That is, my Mortal Strike button has /cast Mortal Strike as well as /cast Cooldown and /cast Trinkets (though the last is not applicable in my case). This probably isn't the right way to go at it eh? I suppose I could use some advice here.

    Here's me (on EU realms): eu (dot) battle (dot) net/wow/en/character/aszune/Torgen/simple

    And here are some logs:
    worldoflogs.com/reports/ot0wwgagrew0ashh/details/9/?s=9741&e=10211 (Rag 10 Normal)
    worldoflogs.com/reports/ot0wwgagrew0ashh/details/9/?s=8784&e=9021 (Domo 10 Normal)

    So can anyone comment on how I'm doing, or is there anything I can improve gear-wise?
    Last edited by Azunaii; 2011-11-16 at 12:32 PM.

  16. #56
    Your priority is incorrect, it's MS > CS > OP > slam, HS is a rage dump when rage is above 70. Slam isn't used as a rage dump but as a filler (and you spam it when MS is on CD while Reck is up).
    Separate your cooldowns from your rotation and use it at appropriate times, like when you have LttS stacked and stuff. Exactly which trinkets you're macroing to your deadly calm I'm not sure seeing how both LTS and VoA are passive.

    Wait for Quenios I guess for the gem/reforge part, as that's also not optimized.

    Oh yeah and you should spec 31/7/3 with 2/2 executioner, obviously.
    Last edited by Damnagoras; 2011-11-17 at 11:37 AM.
    quit

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Damnagoras View Post
    Your priority is incorrect, it's MS > CS > OP > slam, HS is a rage dump when rage is above 70. Slam isn't used as a rage dump but as a filler (and you spam it when MS is on CD while Reck is up).
    Separate your cooldowns from your rotation and use it at appropriate times, like when you have LttS stacked and stuff. Exactly which trinkets you're macroing to your deadly calm I'm not sure seeing how both LTS and VoA are passive.

    Wait for Quenios I guess for the gem/reforge part, as that's also not optimized.

    Oh yeah and you should spec 31/7/3 with 2/2 executioner, obviously.
    Thanks, first off :-) Kind of embarassed by the 2 points in Drums of War, dunno what I was thinking! Will remedy that asap.
    I'll have another look at the rotation, but I have some questions:

    1) Why MS before CS? Wouldn't you want MS to benefit from CS's armor piercing effect?
    2) Isn't LttS up pretty much 100% apart from right at the start of a fight?
    3) If I use my CDs during a beneficial situation, would I use them again the moment they're off CD or wait for another situation? I guess this depends on the length of the bossfight too...

    And finally a question about hit. I'm using License to Slay atm, as you can see, because I need it to stay hitcapped. I have other trinkets, like Apparatus and such... should I switch to those and cap out hit via reforge? Or via gems perhaps..?

    Thanks again for the help!

  18. #58
    removed111
    Last edited by Optii; 2011-11-18 at 01:01 PM.

  19. #59
    1) Why MS before CS? Wouldn't you want MS to benefit from CS's armor piercing effect?
    Yea but MS procs stuff (Enrage and BT mainly) so you want to be pressing it on CD. Frankly the sims I have seen and done aren't really helpful on this as CS>MS vs MS>CS sims differently based on factors like your gear, duration of the fight etc, and the difference is in the range of 100 dps. Personally I just find it easier to build my rotation around one ability with fixed CD.
    2) Isn't LttS up pretty much 100% apart from right at the start of a fight?
    It's not up at the beginning and what your macro achieves is pop a valuable dps cooldown the moment you press MS for the first time, completely forgoing any CD stacking.
    Same with Berserker Rage, you're better off using it right before some sort of AoE happens to maximize the rage gain.
    3) If I use my CDs during a beneficial situation, would I use them again the moment they're off CD or wait for another situation? I guess this depends on the length of the bossfight too...
    Obviously dependant on the boss fight but you shouldn't be delaying cooldowns alot, just make sure you line them up together.
    And finally a question about hit. I'm using License to Slay atm, as you can see, because I need it to stay hitcapped. I have other trinkets, like Apparatus and such... should I switch to those and cap out hit via reforge? Or via gems perhaps..?
    Your goal is to have 8 hit and 26 expertise through reforging, certainly don't stick to LtS just because it has a lot of hit. Use str/hit gems in blue sockets and follow the stat priority from the guide, you should be set. Swap LtS out for AoK and reforge secondary stats like mastery and haste to hit if you're below the cap.
    quit

  20. #60
    Again thanks a lot, good info :-) Looks like the hardest part'll be managing my CDs. I'm running out of comfortable button combo's to use - part of the reason I liked the stack so much, although I guess somewhere I knew it was suboptimal. Well, off to do some maintenance then :-) Thanks again!

    EDIT: I just spent about 30 mins on dummy getting that new rotation into my system. Feels like better overall DPS. I get the feeling I'm barely using HS anymore (was using it way more before), just MS / CS > OP > Slam to fill, unless I hit 70+ rage, which happens very little using that prio. Is that right? And am I then also correct in assuming I can pretty much disregard Inner Rage as an Arms CD? Or does that become useful again in combination with Heroism?

    Also, was wondering what to spend a BT proc on. HS?
    Last edited by Azunaii; 2011-11-18 at 12:33 AM.

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