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  1. #621
    Spec Beast Mastery
    Item Level 530
    Expectations: I'd say around 160-170k dps.
    Armory Link: eu. battle. net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Clerice/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: raidbots. com/epeenbot/eu/kazzak/clerice/

    Linked to epeenbot rather than WoL since it's more compact!

    Actual WoL links, as I realised epeen probably doesn't give enough information.

    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=5415&e=5864
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=6714&e=7007
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=8340&e=8916
    Last edited by Aexys; 2013-08-04 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexys View Post
    Spec Beast Mastery
    Item Level 530
    Expectations: I'd say around 160-170k dps.
    Armory Link: eu. battle. net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Clerice/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: raidbots. com/epeenbot/eu/kazzak/clerice/

    Linked to epeenbot rather than WoL since it's more compact!

    Actual WoL links, as I realised epeen probably doesn't give enough information.

    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=5415&e=5864
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=6714&e=7007
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=8340&e=8916
    I'm no bloody expert, but some things seem obvious.
    I'm just gonna give you some stats. On Durumu HC my Barrage does five times more damage than your Glaive Toss (I assume it's not just the difference between the skills. Delay Barrage for walls etc.). 80% uptime on SS can't be great. I see that you have two shammys, if you're going for a rank it's still better to use multishot on Durumu rather than single target anything. On Qon and Primordius make sure you hit every KC.

    Also you died during two of the linked fights, that's a big dps loss right there.

    Lastly why are you still reforging into crit? Go haste, change your gems too.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by OswinOswald View Post
    I'm no bloody expert....
    As a note - not my hunter, it's on behalf of somebody else.
    So change to Barrage, and use it on cd, 100% uptime on SS, more adaptation to fights with aoe elements, and more upkeep of Kill Command?

    We did try reforging to haste instead, but once we tried it on the dummies he achieved less dps than previously :/

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Aexys View Post
    Spec Beast Mastery
    Item Level 530
    Expectations: I'd say around 160-170k dps.
    Armory Link: eu. battle. net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Clerice/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: raidbots. com/epeenbot/eu/kazzak/clerice/

    Linked to epeenbot rather than WoL since it's more compact!

    Actual WoL links, as I realised epeen probably doesn't give enough information.

    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=5415&e=5864
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=6714&e=7007
    worldoflogs. com/reports/hlhkchx7bhx90bkz/sum/damageDone/?s=8340&e=8916
    I will just consider the Iron Qon fight, this can be applied to Durumu as well, though IQ is a little easier to analyze.

    Based on the graph, your opener seems very weak, additionally I cant even tell where you used the second readiness for back to back BW. BM is suppose to be bursty, the graph looks more like surivival. Are you sneaking in 2 kill commands per BW and not wasting GCDs during BW phase?

    Epeen doesnt give enough, however comparebots does. I've always been curious why its never been in the original post here.

    Considering you were dead for 20 seconds of the fight, the numbers will be slightly lower. However 20 seconds is only 3.5% of the fight length. On to Compare Bots:

    http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/5...000231#summary
    - 8 BW uses. If we consider fight length you should have got 10 in there. If we now consider readiness used twice, there should have been 12
    - I assume you have Synapse Springs macroed into BW as you only got out 8 here too.
    - Rapid fire could have been used 5 times (by delaying readiness so RF is used and then back to back BW)
    - No racial usage for free focus

    http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/5...6000231#damage
    Here the raw numbers really dont mean anything useful, we want to look at dot uptime and hits/min
    - Dot uptime is ok I suppose considering you died. Though 95%+ is considered decent for BM.
    - Look at spells with Cooldowns and then hits per min. Glaive toss: 15 second CD but only had 3.2 hits/min - 60/15 = 4. Add in readiness and multiple targets in phase 3, this should be 4+.
    - Kill comand you cannot see usage, its displayed on the pet page:

    http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/5...c000347#damage
    - Kill Command - 5.3 hits per minute. SHOULD BE: (6 second CD) 60/6 = 10 hits per min. The air phase you can't use this, but add in readiness and you should be around at least 9.7 hits per min.

    Biggest DPS loss is going to be only using Kill Command about half as much as you possibly could... especially in the opener and during BW. Doing simple math on the Durumu fight suggests similar KC usage...

    I would imagine, at your gear levels and raid comp, you should be around 150k for H IQ.

  5. #625
    Spec Beast Mastery
    Item Level 470
    Expectations: 40-50 k
    Armory Link: eu.battle. net/wow /en/character /ragnaros /Cren%C3%A4k/simple

    Im only at 25-28k on singeltargets... pretty anyoin with itemlevel 470 and other hunters have lower ilvel and better dps they are on 40-45k so i am thinking i should be on 50-55 atleast

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Crenak View Post
    Spec Beast Mastery
    Item Level 470
    Expectations: 40-50 k
    Armory Link: eu.battle. net/wow /en/character /ragnaros /Cren%C3%A4k/simple

    Im only at 25-28k on singeltargets... pretty anyoin with itemlevel 470 and other hunters have lower ilvel and better dps they are on 40-45k so i am thinking i should be on 50-55 atleast
    You have a strength cloak (this should be agility). You have intellect mail hands (you should go after the crafted agi mail hands instead). I would go after the 522 valor trinket as soon as you can. You need a scope on your gun. You need enchants on your hands, legs, shoulders, etc. I doubt you are bringing flasks to instances or raids, and you are probably not using potions either.

    I have an entire section of the BM guide at EJ that covers gearing to 160k+ dps through LFRs, valor gear, and crafted gear. It also covers the rotation you will want to look at. Check my sig and try that out. I would check out Gear Optimization, Rotation, and Gearing for Normal ToT in the table of contents. Those will be good places for you to start.

    There are other sites like femaledwarf.com that can help you with gear decisions, but I'll go ahead and warn you that the strength and intellect based items you are wearing will not show up there. Once you have agility items that are recognized in femaledwarf.com, you can then tweak your gear with items you find to see if they are an upgrade or not. In general, I try to consult a spreadsheet/sim like femaledwarf.com to guide me in gear decisions. You can also consult gear lists like those at maxdps.com to plan out your upgrade path, which generally works fine for lower ilvl hunters (I would use Simcraft or Femaledwarf over maxdps.com, though).

  7. #627
    Spec: BM
    Item Level: 509
    Expectations:125k
    Armory Link: eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/blackrock/Uncleswag/advanced
    Worldoflogs -Link:
    Femaledwarf -Link:

    At LFR or normal Raids i do more dmg than other hunter or other classes at my itemlevel. but i think about 110k dps (thats what i'm doing) is not enough for my ilvl. but i dont know why i dont deal more dmg i just check the guide elitistjerks . femaledwarf also say i should do 125k dps. well sorry my english is not the best one ,because i'm from Germany. ^.^Thanks for Help, Your UncleswaG

  8. #628
    Spec Surv.
    Item Level 533
    Expectations: Need to raise dps
    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lyclaws/simple
    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/270292/
    Femaledwarf Link:

    I seem to be having the most issues with target switching. My dps starts off fine, but then I plummet. This seems to be the norm across any fight. I switched around some gear tonight and gemming. I was way over hit cap, I still am, but I've reforged everything.
    I'm especially having issues with the Council fight.

    Also, I would also like to mention that I do have a disability with my left hand, I've keybind as much as I possibly can.

    I am messing around with Lynx Rush - its normally murder of crows, just an FYI.

    Would appreciate any help / tips / tricks. I could really use it.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Demona3; 2013-08-08 at 03:01 AM.

  9. #629
    Spec: BM
    Item Level: 533
    Expectations: Would like to get DPS as high as possible, 180-200k would be nice
    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...entia/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6846&e=7140
    Femaledwarf Link:http://www.femaledwarf.com/?setting_id=15147

    Currently i see my self in recount sitting anywhere between 130k and 160k, im sure there is more i could be doing, any assist would be appreciated.

  10. #630
    Spec: BM
    Item Level: 518
    Expectations: around 150k
    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/uther/Kegomellon/simple
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-99yf2nivxo7xn52b/details/13/

    I signed up for this site after seeing this thread, but I'm not allowed to post links just yet. I'm just more curious to see if there's anything else that I could do better to milk my DPS up a little more. My WoL is from an earlier run, I had gotten some upgrades after that run and we had only done Megara since and I didn't think that was a good fight for being reviewed.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by kegggstand View Post
    Spec: BM
    Item Level: 518
    Expectations: around 150k
    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/uther/Kegomellon/simple
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-99yf2nivxo7xn52b/details/13/

    snip
    First of all, via FemaleDwarf, you're not even simming at 150k (141k currently). 150k is *probably* not a fair goal, especially if you feel like you're underperforming.

    Second, I would suggest changing your talents; TotH --> Dire Beast and AMoC --> Blink Strikes. You're basically just changing which tier is active and which is passive, and you will see a huge net sim gain (~6-7k) and possibly a larger gain simply because Dire Beast/Blink Strikes are easier to use and very versatile. Fervor is also an option.

    Thirdly, let's analyze those logs. I'm looking at the Jin'rokh fight. It's pretty Patchwerk. Here's a list of things I noticed:
    1) Serpent Sting uptime is about 80%. There is zero reason this isn't 95%+, as far as I can see; there's no target switching, and on normal, there's hardly any movement to distract you.
    2) You cast about 4.4 Kill Commands/minute. The absolutely optimal number is around 10, but let's say 9 is more realistic for most players. You're doing about HALF the amount of Kill Command damage you could be doing.
    3) You cast Bestial Wrath 3 times throughout the fight (3 minutes long). It could be 4. However, this could just be a CompareBot bug, such that it doesn't count abilities cast before the pull.

    Let's just leave it at that for now. Basically, as the problem often is, you're not casting your abilities enough. Sure, you're casting a lot of Arcane Shots (though that's probably due to TotH and at the sacrifice of Cobra Shots and, indirectly, your SrS uptime) but it's severely damaging your KC cast rate. I would strongly suggest picking up Weak Auras and having it track the cooldown of spells like Kill Command and the application of Serpent Sting.
    Last edited by HonneurVilified; 2013-08-07 at 11:12 PM.

  12. #632
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Hello, hunters! I am a tank and aspiring raid leader in a fairly casual guild that has just recently gotten 11/12 and is currently working on Lei Shen. We have two BM hunters in the group, both 520+ iLevel (one is 522, the other 524). I'm doing an evaluation on all of our DPS to see where, if anywhere, improvements can be made as I am only familiar with tank classes. Any suggestions, critiques or advice for one or both of my Hunters would be appreciated as to be frank I know next to nothing about hunters and therefore am not qualified to properly evaluate performance.

    Spec: BM (both), I know at least one of them usually has a pet capable of doing the Heroism equivalent, I am pretty sure the other uses a Sporebat for the spell haste
    Expectations: No idea at all. I'm not even sure they are underperforming; what made me curious was looking through WoL and seeing such a discrepancy in the ability usage between the two Hunters, when I would think for the same spec at roughly the same gear level, the ability use would be nearly identical.
    Armory:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olfbain/simple
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...alkyrii/simple
    Logs:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zxty8gn0q8cgvizr/ (Jin'rokh thru Dark Animus)
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jcuek0xctx7k3z31/ (Iron Qon, Twins, Lei Shen attempts)

    Thank you, Hunters!
    NOBLESHIELD
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  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Hello, hunters! I am a tank and aspiring raid leader in a fairly casual guild that has just recently gotten 11/12 and is currently working on Lei Shen. We have two BM hunters in the group, both 520+ iLevel (one is 522, the other 524). I'm doing an evaluation on all of our DPS to see where, if anywhere, improvements can be made as I am only familiar with tank classes. Any suggestions, critiques or advice for one or both of my Hunters would be appreciated as to be frank I know next to nothing about hunters and therefore am not qualified to properly evaluate performance.

    Spec: BM (both), I know at least one of them usually has a pet capable of doing the Heroism equivalent, I am pretty sure the other uses a Sporebat for the spell haste
    Expectations: No idea at all. I'm not even sure they are underperforming; what made me curious was looking through WoL and seeing such a discrepancy in the ability usage between the two Hunters, when I would think for the same spec at roughly the same gear level, the ability use would be nearly identical.
    Armory:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olfbain/simple
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...alkyrii/simple
    Logs:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zxty8gn0q8cgvizr/ (Jin'rokh thru Dark Animus)
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jcuek0xctx7k3z31/ (Iron Qon, Twins, Lei Shen attempts)

    Thank you, Hunters!
    Looking briefly I noticed 2 differences..
    Wolf has better up time on Serpent Sting on every fight, some by alot, and uses MOC.
    Valyrii needs more up time on Serpent sting, and this one is huge.. NEEDS TO USE Murder of Crows. I see Val spec'd into MOC but it is not being used on any fights..that is a large dps loss. If Val is having issues using MOC, have Val spec into Blink Strikes. BS doesn't require player management like MOC does, also make sure Val is using a timer to keep track of SS. Val also needs to replace the Talisman of Bloodlust Trinket.. it sucks.
    Val is also reforging Crit vs. Wolf who is reforging haste.. Val would probably benefit from the haste instead of crit especially with the Cap helm gem, and a better trinket.
    Does either of them know how to play Survival? I see several fights where they would benefit from playing survival vs. BM..

  14. #634
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    No clue about Survival, I'll have to check and ask; I just know in pure sims BM is higher DPS, and that's about the extent of my Hunter knowledge (I actually had read that BS was better than AMOC in almost all situations).

    Thank you very much for the help, I'll pass it along to them.
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Mod Voice


  15. #635
    Blink strikes is better than AMoC for BM and dire beast is better than fervor.

    Wolfbain's shoulders aren't enchanted.

    Some of their gems are incorrect. Wolfbain should be using an orange and a purple in his pants and Valkyrii should take the stam gems out of their pants and chest, they can reforge out of the hit on their belt making up for the hit gained. They should also just put a red gem in their belt.

    Both of them are not using their kill command and glaive toss on CD.

    BM is actually better on most ToT fights.

    Overall, both just aren't managing their focus properly.

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  16. #636
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Blink strikes is better than AMoC for BM and dire beast is better than fervor.

    Wolfbain's shoulders aren't enchanted.

    Some of their gems are incorrect. Wolfbain should be using an orange and a purple in his pants and Valkyrii should take the stam gems out of their pants and chest, they can reforge out of the hit on their belt making up for the hit gained. They should also just put a red gem in their belt.

    Both of them are not using their kill command and glaive toss on CD.

    BM is actually better on most ToT fights.

    Overall, both just aren't managing their focus properly.
    Awesome advice, I will pass that along. Thanks!
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Mod Voice


  17. #637
    Can someone tell me how in the world this guy is getting 600K+ dps on a ten minute horridon kill?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...3368#萧春水

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalin View Post
    Can someone tell me how in the world this guy is getting 600K+ dps on a ten minute horridon kill?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e...3368#萧春水
    It's a broken/butchered log (or a really lucky bug). His pet will never be able to attack as fast as it was in the log. His beast cleave is inconsistent with his mulit-shot casts, his beast cleave is hitting horridon numerous times without any other attacks in between which would be impossible since you need attacks to proc beast cleave, and even then the frequency is too fast. He didn't actually do all that damage. That is literally impossible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also: sorry for not being able to get to everybody, but chances are that the following may apply to you:

    SrS uptime
    CD usage (BW, stampede, AMoC, etc.)
    Rotational ability usage (ES, KC, GT, etc.)
    Incorrect reforges/gems/enchants
    Improper focus management
    Pet autocasting dash/poor pet management

    If you want to better yourself and haven't gotten a response, you can check these yourself. If you need help/have a question then I can most likely help. It just gets kind of tedious correcting the same stuff over and over again.

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  19. #639
    I would advise going with Survival spec for Horridon and Tortos. Even with a lower 520s ilvl, I was able to pull 140-160k dps on Horridon, and 160-180k on Tortos. Because there are multiple ads constantly involved in those fight, using Multi Shot to put serpent sting on the ads (e.g. turtles and bats) and then switching back to the kill target will really help with ad management and especially the hunters' dps. I also chose Fervor as one of my talents so that I could get extra Multi Shots every 30s.

    I'm seeing very low uptime of Serpent Sting for both hunters on most fights. I use 3 addons to help with maintaining SS and other shots: JS Hunter Bar, Cooldowns, and Tidy Plates. JS Hunter Bar will keep track of all of your main abilities such as Bestial Wrath, Kill Command, Glaive Toss, etc. and so you can manage your focus accordingly and use those shots right off cds. Cooldowns serve a similar purpose, but it puts actual numbers on the buttons in place of the original, clockwise graying out of the buttons. Tidy Plates help keep track of my debuffs on targets, and I find it very useful with SS uptime and dotting up extra ads. It shows the DoTs on top of the target's nameplate.

    Valkyrii only had one Cobra Shot cast the entire fight on Tortos. I can only assume that he was manually casting Serpent Sting and not refreshing with Cobra Shot, which would lead to focus shortage and, in the end, lackluster dps. 39.9% uptime on any boss needs to be addressed. In addition, both hunters only had SS up for half the fight on Durumu. Cobra Shot can be cast on the move, so you shouldn't have a problem casting it and other shots while moving through the maze. Widow Venom would help on Durumu's Life Leech phases because it reduces healing taken by the target by 25% for 30s

    Also, on Magaera I choose the Crouching Tiger Hidden Chimera talent for the reduced time on disengage and deterrence along with the Glyph of Deterrence. Anytime rng is horrible and I'm about to take a bomb straight in the face, I use deterrence for the 50% damage reduction. I would also set up a Cancel Aura macro so that I can go back to dpsing prior to Deterrence's 5s duration running out. You lose couple seconds of dps time in the end by using Deterrence, but it really helps healers keep others up especially on the latter part of the fight. Plus a dead dps is no dps.

    I use a Weak Auras to tell me when my Focus Fire has reached 5 stacks. It's hard not to cast it when it's beeping at you constantly.

    Hopefully this helps a bit. I'm in no way an expert in the hunter class, and I've only started playing in February. These are just strategies which I've been following for my raid nights.
    Last edited by yyr0502; 2013-08-10 at 09:04 PM.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by yyr0502 View Post
    snip
    Yeah, weak auras really help out. If they don't have it, they should consider downloading it.

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