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  1. #41
    I don't think there is any excuse for a poor character creation system. An mmo that came out in 2003 has a better character creator than any of the newer ones (or from what I've seen, the ones coming out). If they can do it, then surely mmos like SWTOR, GW2, TSW, or whatever else is coming out can come up with one just as good.

  2. #42
    Maybe because developers know that the large majority of subcribers don't give a rats ass about 12,000 character customizations?

    These days its all about, get into the game and rock out, not spending an hour choosing a hair style.

    Sorry to bust your bubble but this is the way it is now.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jearle View Post
    Maybe because developers know that the large majority of subcribers don't give a rats ass about 12,000 character customizations?

    These days its all about, get into the game and rock out, not spending an hour choosing a hair style.

    Sorry to bust your bubble but this is the way it is now.
    Indeed, I'd rather not have 12,000 customization options and have another 15 minutes or so gameplay. Gameplay > insane amounts of customization, at least for me. Although I do have to admit that I tend to go crazy over customizing my characters in games like Oblivion as well.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Seweryn View Post
    I think you are wrong because this is mmo, you want to feel unique and when you have tons of people looking the same it takes something from overrall experience.
    It is why Bethesda games are so people because nearly all character you create are unique due to the massive modification capabilities.

    If you ever played oblivion for example that is large number of modifications option of your character. For example hair modifications:

    You have 3 basic colors, from range 0 to 255 so you there is a very large number of hair color possibilities.

    P.S.

    WoW have some great aspects but it has some dull aspects too.

    I would prefer if they would take great aspects of wow and not the dull. For example character creation screen is one those things that is horrible of wow so why no take them from games that did it better.

    If you want to compare it too other diffrent mmo, Guild Wars 2 is fine example since it has a very nice modification options of the look of your character.

    And if sw tor has at least the same lvl I am fine.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-17 at 10:56 PM ----------
    Yes you're right you want to feel unique. You want to know what makes you look unique? The armor, the gear, the visible items. Not whether your character has 800 mustache choices. I play an orc female in WoW. I hate all orcs. I loathe and despise the way they look but the racials are amazing and as an orc female I can at least pretend I'm not an orc. Why does being an orc female not bother me? Because the visual aspect of my character, the armor, is the more important defining feature to me. I don't care that my female orc doesn't have 200 hair styles and 60 skin colors. And even if it did the amount of time I'd actually spend looking at it is a fraction of a percent of the time I spent playing because my awesome helmet covers is up. Really I just want enough faces so I can pick one that doesn't look like I just got botox or am trying to pinch out a really nasty shit. That's enough for me.

    What doesn't make me feel unique is my character having frowny face no. 1 and going out into the world to see frowny faces 2-600. You may care about that, but a lot of us really don't. Not in the slightest. I've played a few bethesda games, I played oblivion at a friend's house. I don't think I spent more than 2 minutes creating any of those characters or any game that is "renown" for its character customization. In any character creation game 90% of my time spent making the character is naming if I don't have one picked out already. I would contend that character creation, at least in the appearance aspect, is not the reason why Bethesda games are so popular. They're popular because of the gameplay and character attribute customization, you can be a sneaky melee guy or an explosive guy and the story/conversational options. Not because you can have a goatee with a frohawk and get the perfect nose you've always wanted.

    Swtor's character customization is far from the most expansive set up there ever was but like I said as long as I'm able to pick a face that doesn't make me gag, which I was, I'm happy. I don't need anywhere close to the customization of any of those games you mentioned. We just wont see it as the same development priority, I see it as something at the very bottom of the to do list you clearly see it near the top, especially for launch.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-17 at 10:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Exactly, and particularly if I can turn off max terrain settings and run maximum character appearances and not even seen an FPS loss, we've got a problem. Shadows? huge graphics power sink but largely irrelevent to overall game appearance. View distance? Pretty but also a minimal factor. Water effects? Alright now we're starting to talk about some visuals. Lighting? More the merrier. Many Western games, WoW, CoH, Champions, Rift, ect... I can max out the relevant character settings and my computer can shrug it off like a soft breeze.
    I'd much rather have any of those able to perform better on weaker systems then any extra number of character creation options. Shadows let me see when people are flying in to gank me(yes not in swtor i know), view distances lets me see them from farther away as well as take in a better lay of the land, and if I can't see what I'm doing in the world with decent lighting I'm going to be way more pissed than if my character didn't get my favorite handle bar mustache with just the right angry face and 33.4 freckles.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2011-10-17 at 10:08 PM.
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  5. #45
    people against customization are exaggerating to the point of dumbness. even the most customizable game could have 12-15 options maybe for stuff like facial hair/expressions. aion had like 40-50 hairstyles for females and like 30ish for males, some were unisex. other than that it was below 10. the real customization was the body/face sliders.

    if you don't care i don't see how it hurts you. aion offered preset character templates on top of randomization. in fact most mmos offer at least randomize. if you don't like choice there you go.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Yes you're right you want to feel unique. You want to know what makes you look unique? The armor, the gear, the visible items. Not whether your character has 800 mustache choices. I play an orc female in WoW. I hate all orcs. I loathe and despise the way they look but the racials are amazing and as an orc female I can at least pretend I'm not an orc. Why does being an orc female not bother me? Because the visual aspect of my character, the armor, is the more important defining feature to me. I don't care that my female orc doesn't have 200 hair styles and 60 skin colors. And even if it did the amount of time I'd actually spend looking at it is a fraction of a percent of the time I spent playing because my awesome helmet covers is up. Really I just want enough faces so I can pick one that doesn't look like I just got botox or am trying to pinch out a really nasty shit. That's enough for me.

    What doesn't make me feel unique is my character having frowny face no. 1 and going out into the world to see frowny faces 2-600. You may care about that, but a lot of us really don't. Not in the slightest. I've played a few bethesda games, I played oblivion at a friend's house. I don't think I spent more than 2 minutes creating any of those characters or any game that is "renown" for its character customization. In any character creation game 90% of my time spent making the character is naming if I don't have one picked out already. I would contend that character creation, at least in the appearance aspect, is not the reason why Bethesda games are so popular. They're popular because of the gameplay and character attribute customization, you can be a sneaky melee guy or an explosive guy and the story/conversational options. Not because you can have a goatee with a frohawk and get the perfect nose you've always wanted.

    Swtor's character customization is far from the most expansive set up there ever was but like I said as long as I'm able to pick a face that doesn't make me gag, which I was, I'm happy. I don't need anywhere close to the customization of any of those games you mentioned. We just wont see it as the same development priority, I see it as something at the very bottom of the to do list you clearly see it near the top, especially for launch.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-17 at 10:02 PM ----------



    I'd much rather have any of those able to perform better on weaker systems then any extra number of character creation options. Shadows let me see when people are flying in to gank me(yes not in swtor i know), view distances lets me see them from farther away as well as take in a better lay of the land, and if I can't see what I'm doing in the world with decent lighting I'm going to be way more pissed than if my character didn't get my favorite handle bar mustache with just the right angry face and 33.4 freckles.
    You have your style of gaming and I have my style.
    Plus I won't be doing much raiding that doesn't, I am more into social guild that you can talk to rather then to raid. Having people you can talk to is nicer I think but your way is also good.
    I played wow so much since it is addictive and was my first mmo.

    Even my pc that I bought in 1999 could run freaking wow so I think argument is invalid about system requirements.
    Ask yourself this how much phenomen 955 costs ? In mu country it is around 100 pounds and decent graphic card for example radeon 5770 around 100 pounds also so having a decent pc isn't really that expensive nowdays.
    Fine if you do not like more customisations option wouldn't hurt anyone, if you do not like don't use them and if you like use them but there is no excuse of not having them even games like lotro or ddo had more of them and those games are old.
    I agree that is not crucial part of the game but you know it is better to have nice looking character then a bad looking, and it wouldn't hurt both sides but that is my personall opinion as I have stated before.
    Cheers,

    So why people keep making a lot of mods for oblivion that alters appearance of your character like new body meshes, body textures, new hairstyles ( there is a huge number of it for oblivion, I say it is huge number it is ), hair colors, eyes color, new races like shadowmoon elves ( my favorites ) and many more things ).
    For that is what I love about oblivion is the reason you can mod probably everything in there.
    Last edited by Seweryn; 2011-10-17 at 10:50 PM. Reason: had to add something

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by arceuid View Post
    people against customization are exaggerating to the point of dumbness. even the most customizable game could have 12-15 options maybe for stuff like facial hair/expressions. aion had like 40-50 hairstyles for females and like 30ish for males, some were unisex. other than that it was below 10. the real customization was the body/face sliders.

    if you don't care i don't see how it hurts you. aion offered preset character templates on top of randomization. in fact most mmos offer at least randomize. if you don't like choice there you go.
    Choice is fine, the difference of opinion comes in what the degree of choice should/needs to be. No one here is necessarily arguing against customization, what is being argued against is that the current selection needs to be expanded and that enhancing the current selection should in any way be a launch priority. That's it. If they want to add more later on fine, I'll think it's a waste of time then just as I don't care for it now, but it in no way should be or needs to be a launch priority especially if there's post character creation re customization al la wow barber shops. They've got far more important things to worry about.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-17 at 11:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seweryn View Post
    You have your style of gaming and I have my style.
    Plus I won't be doing much raiding that doesn't, I am more into social guild that you can talk to rather then to raid. Having people you can talk to is nicer I think but your way is also good.
    I played wow so much since it is addictive and was my first mmo.

    Even my pc that I bought in 1999 could run freaking wow so I think argument is invalid about system requirements.
    Ask yourself this how much phenomen 955 costs ? In mu country it is around 100 pounds and decent graphic card for example radeon 5770 around 100 pounds also so having a decent pc isn't really that expensive nowdays.
    Fine if you do not like more customisations option wouldn't hurt anyone, if you do not like don't use them and if you like use them but there is no excuse of not having them even games like lotro or ddo had more of them and those games are old.
    I agree that is not crucial part of the game but you know it is better to have nice looking character then a bad looking, and it wouldn't hurt both sides but that is my personall opinion as I have stated before.
    Cheers,

    So why people keep making a lot of mods for oblivion that alters appearance of your character like new body meshes, body textures, new hairstyles ( there is a huge number of it for oblivion, I say it is huge number it is ), hair colors, eyes color, new races like shadowmoon elves ( my favorites ) and many more things ).
    For that is what I love about oblivion is the reason you can mod probably everything in there.
    I guess if all you expect out of the game is a glorified chat room where you can admire your character's face then FPS isn't much of a concern. I'm far more concerned about environment and armor detail then minor facial nuances. Either way I think we've both got it pretty well down we expect different things from games!

    Congratulations, you can afford a decent computer. Me too! Two people on my raid team are out of work running on ancient computers and another is actually raiding on a crappy old web book he found in his cousin's closet because his laptop broke and he can't afford a new one. For every person that invests money into even just an okay gaming computer there are far more who buy that Acer blah blah blah they saw at Best Buy because the case made it look like the computer ran faster then the others. MMO's need to have low system requirements, that doesn't mean work can't be done to make ultra look amazing, and it's not your place to judge what is and isn't expensive for some people. Either way I never made a point involving the technical aspects about having different textures and such so/shrug except that minor reply to smrund.

    The excuse is they have better things to do with their time getting a hugely expensive and massive game like SWTOR ready to launch over expanding a customization system which will appease 80-90% of us. If you agree it's not a crucial part of the game then it's not a big deal if it comes out 3 months after launch is it? Which is what most of us have been saying, that it's not anywhere near an important must be done before launch issue like you said you felt it was in the OP and would in fact be a relative waste of their time and resources to address something that can be put off till later. Wasting time on relatively minor issues that can be dealt with later when there's bigger problems with missing voice acting in the game and big time texture popping does hurt the game. That's what this whole back and forth has been about.

    To me Oblivion would be the same game if there was one male/female model for reach race. I'd say the character creation is that extra sprinkle on an already tasty cake. But if the rest of the cake was shit, i.e. game play was awful or the world looked like a two year old designed it, that extra sprinkle wouldn't make much of a difference while you tried to choke down the rest of the turd.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2011-10-17 at 11:27 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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  8. #48
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    I know they said picking dark side will alter your characters looks in someway. Dunno how exactly but was stated during one of their panels. Also stated as of right now light side doesn't do that. If I could remember which panel I would link for ya but I do not remember which. SO while base customization is limited I would kind of prefer it that way. Progressing to a more bad ass version as you level seems far more rewarding to me.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Profyrion View Post
    Not even close, really.

    I'm guessing you never played City of Heroes.
    I have in fact, and only reason you say that is cos you had to customize your clothes youd be wearing it pretty much all the time, how much could you do to the face really...and EvE use to have a good char creator but they changed it now they have added clothes its nowhere near as extensive as it use to be facially.

  10. #50
    Personally I like SWTOR's character customization. It's about the same as any korean MMO that doesn't specifically focus on customization on the level of Champions Online. The possibilities in that game are just too huge--they use hexadecimal color for everything, on top of a giant selection of customizable parts of your character (though it's a F2P so some you need to buy)

    WoW is as the very low end of the spectrum. I would say that SWTOR is in the mid range, behind the single player RPGs and Champions Online
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Choice is fine, the difference of opinion comes in what the degree of choice should/needs to be. No one here is necessarily arguing against customization, what is being argued against is that the current selection needs to be expanded and that enhancing the current selection should in any way be a launch priority. That's it. If they want to add more later on fine, I'll think it's a waste of time then just as I don't care for it now, but it in no way should be or needs to be a launch priority especially if there's post character creation re customization al la wow barber shops. They've got far more important things to worry about.
    no, i'm pretty sure a lot of people, even you, are arguing with the misconception that if time is "wasted" improving character customization the rest of the game will fall to garbage, and if it gets any more attention at all the game will fail, for the sake of <insert extremely large number to illustrate contrived ridiculousness> eyebrow choices.

    which doesn't tell me someone doesn't care or isn't against it, it says they're vehemently against it because they aren't even arguing from fact.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Osskssa View Post
    From what ive seen its one of the most extensive character creator in a MMO, wayyyyy more than wow more even that DA:O so im not worried
    Definitely not. APB (lol), Aion, and Rift all had much better character customization options. If you think Swtor is one of the best, you haven't played a lot of MMOs ;P

    Basically, the worst are games like WoW and Guild Wars 1. As much as I loved both these games (and still play GW1 to this day), their customization options were horrible. Pick one of eight faces...one of eights hairstyles...one of eight skin colours...done. Guild Wars had dyes, but the actual customization options were pretty bad.

    Next up is games like Swtor. The customization is better than WoW or GW1, but still not amazing. I think Swtor has an "ok" amount of customization. I can make a more unique character than WoW, but not by much. The fat bodies are hilarious though, I hope we can use them. Keep in mind that the game is a work in progress, so this is subject to change.

    Even better is GW2, Rift and Aion. These still aren't Skyrim level, but they're very detailed. You can adjust all the sliders to make a character you want. Again, GW2 has dyes (400 of them), but I don't count that as it doesn't affect your characters facial structure. Again, just like Swtor, GW2 is a work in progress, and subject to change.

    Finally, you have APB. I think all their money went in to the customization options. As an example, you can direct the direction the individual spikes on your mohawk point, as well as their length and depth. Seriously. Too bad the rest of the game sucked.
    Norn Mesmer: GW2
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    Studies have been done that have found when people have too much choice, they get overwhelmed and are less likely to make a choice. Studies relate more to speed dating than anything, but it still applies here. In such a case with games, those people end up getting frustrated by too much choice, hit the randomize button, and are done.

    From what I have seen with SWTOR, there is a lot more available in it for customization than in WoW but isn't enough to make me throw the game out the window because there's too much. There's enough. So I'm happy. If there's like 10 options you can change and each option has like 10 options (except body that has 4), there's a lot of combinations. Then there's all the races so there's even more options. Throw in armor, too. Chances of you running into an exact copy of your character on your server isn't too likely.

    There's also the ability for Bioware to add additional options in the future like more hair (always a popular choice), tattoos, scars, etc. Could be patch features. Could be expansion features.
    I hate when people give wrong information like this... I know certain sliders have OVER 40 options. I'm sorry if that's not enough for some people.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by arceuid View Post
    no, i'm pretty sure a lot of people, even you, are arguing with the misconception that if time is "wasted" improving character customization the rest of the game will fall to garbage, and if it gets any more attention at all the game will fail, for the sake of <insert extremely large number to illustrate contrived ridiculousness> eyebrow choices.

    which doesn't tell me someone doesn't care or isn't against it, it says they're vehemently against it because they aren't even arguing from fact.
    Having played the beta there are far more game breaking issues then what is an already adequate character creation being expanded. Is it as good as some games? No. Is it better than WoW's? Yes. Given that people know this fact and can't comprehend that the point that the OP made was that character creation, which is already of a good quality, should be expanded given bugged quests, texture popping, and other game play/graphical issues that some of us would rather see dev focus on systems that aren't ready for launch rather then "fixing" something that isn't broken there's no helping you.

    If you want to jerk it to your character with your favorite mustache and body build/hair style X that's fine. Other folks are more worried about game mechanics, and since character customization works just fine they can add more to it later just like they said they would without a single problem caused. Beats another mustache to go with your lekku combo number 30. What that tells me about a person who would prefer a frivolous enhancement over fundamental game problems being addressed is that they're vehemently against a Star Wars game that is anything more then Star Wars: Barbie Doll dress up edition. See what I did there? As of right now yes, adding to an already reasonably well done game system while others need greater attention is a waste of time. It can be dealt with later which is what the OP asked(whether or not we felt this way or as he does) and how we answered.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
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  15. #55
    My personal opinion on it is this:

    The SW:TOR character creator is in-depth enough to give you decent control over the appearance of your character. Anything more would be nice, but that's not where they spend their resources, especially when they are catering to a wide range of computer hardware.

    Also, on the topic of the graphics not topping out your cards, good for you, you have a good card. Now, think about all the information that BioWare has to send you to update your characters location, shadow, and everything else around you. Now multiply that by 2 million. Now you know why they don't want to go full bore on graphics, because even though your individual system can handle it, their data servers/traffic centers would burst into flame.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    My personal opinion on it is this:

    The SW:TOR character creator is in-depth enough to give you decent control over the appearance of your character. Anything more would be nice, but that's not where they spend their resources, especially when they are catering to a wide range of computer hardware.

    Also, on the topic of the graphics not topping out your cards, good for you, you have a good card. Now, think about all the information that BioWare has to send you to update your characters location, shadow, and everything else around you. Now multiply that by 2 million. Now you know why they don't want to go full bore on graphics, because even though your individual system can handle it, their data servers/traffic centers would burst into flame.
    And if consoles wouldn't be a primary games machines for some people, I could guarantee to you the games would have greater requirements but has also a good side since more people nowdays can afford a decent gaming pc.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-18 at 07:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Having played the beta there are far more game breaking issues then what is an already adequate character creation being expanded. Is it as good as some games? No. Is it better than WoW's? Yes. Given that people know this fact and can't comprehend that the point that the OP made was that character creation, which is already of a good quality, should be expanded given bugged quests, texture popping, and other game play/graphical issues that some of us would rather see dev focus on systems that aren't ready for launch rather then "fixing" something that isn't broken there's no helping you.

    If you want to jerk it to your character with your favorite mustache and body build/hair style X that's fine. Other folks are more worried about game mechanics, and since character customization works just fine they can add more to it later just like they said they would without a single problem caused. Beats another mustache to go with your lekku combo number 30. What that tells me about a person who would prefer a frivolous enhancement over fundamental game problems being addressed is that they're vehemently against a Star Wars game that is anything more then Star Wars: Barbie Doll dress up edition. See what I did there? As of right now yes, adding to an already reasonably well done game system while others need greater attention is a waste of time. It can be dealt with later which is what the OP asked(whether or not we felt this way or as he does) and how we answered.
    I never said I want to walk around town and say how beatiful I am. The thing I am saying is this, if around 60% do not care about that is not crucial and if 40% care about you could add more since it would made those 40% happy.
    There is no reason no adding decent number of customization items if it makes some people happy plus problem with raids, quest and etc can be trully fix on launch not before, of course they are a prioryty but that doesn't mean having large pool of customizations options isn't good for game either.
    I think it would take less time then fixing those things but it is only me.

    I really hope if they will add more those things after launch and add a possibility to change after launch like wow barber shop.

    I have played oblivion since 2006 and I am playing it now and reason is mods, because you can change nearly most aspect of the game and that's what I love about the game that you can change the look of it anyway you like.

  17. #57
    Hello, this is my first post here on the forums. I hope i can make my point clear ... didn't write anything in english since school and that was years ago

    I played a lot of MMO's (desperately trying to find an alternative to WoW^^) and i have to say that the games with the best Charakter-Creators were the worst ones (Champions Online, Star Terk Online, All Points Bulletin, Aion ... of course there will are fans of this games who will say the opposite, but that is my POV). I got the impression that huge Char-Editos were implemented to cover the fact, that the game itself isn't all that great and incomplete in many ways.

    I think ist important to be able to make a charakter that looks good to me. I don't get anything from having bigger nostrils and thinner eyebrows than the mandalorian bountyhunter over there. I personally hope that there will be a way to customize armor once the game is released.

    €: typo

  18. #58
    Char customization is MORE than enough for me. I'm pretty sure I can say that without breaking NDA. If you really care that much, wait until game ships and watch someone make a youtube video of how many options you have. It's certainly MUCH more than WoW ever had, and ever will have.
    Whining about WoW since closed beta.
    Retired from WoW since patch 4.0.6.

  19. #59
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    I would rather have customizable blaster, rifle, lightsaber types. SW:TOR is a story based mmo, so naturally they focused more on those parts of the game. I wouldn't mind more options for customization, but its not a bug deal for me. Like shimera said there are other things to worry about now, after all what good is it if your char looks unique if you cant finish half the quest, or stuck in any other "minor" glitch.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Having played the beta there are far more game breaking issues then what is an already adequate character creation being expanded. Is it as good as some games? No. Is it better than WoW's? Yes. Given that people know this fact and can't comprehend that the point that the OP made was that character creation, which is already of a good quality, should be expanded given bugged quests, texture popping, and other game play/graphical issues that some of us would rather see dev focus on systems that aren't ready for launch rather then "fixing" something that isn't broken there's no helping you.

    If you want to jerk it to your character with your favorite mustache and body build/hair style X that's fine. Other folks are more worried about game mechanics, and since character customization works just fine they can add more to it later just like they said they would without a single problem caused. Beats another mustache to go with your lekku combo number 30. What that tells me about a person who would prefer a frivolous enhancement over fundamental game problems being addressed is that they're vehemently against a Star Wars game that is anything more then Star Wars: Barbie Doll dress up edition. See what I did there? As of right now yes, adding to an already reasonably well done game system while others need greater attention is a waste of time. It can be dealt with later which is what the OP asked(whether or not we felt this way or as he does) and how we answered.
    i'm fairly sure the same people working on character models/animation aren't assigned to every other game breaking issue. again, trying to claim the game will fail and other issues won't get solved if something like this received any attention. better than WoW isn't hard to accomplish and attempting to be "better than WoW" is shameful for any game company. they should produce quality for quality sake, not for "lol i dunno its better than WoW" sake.

    you don't need to derive sexual feelings from your character to find or wish for it to be more aesthetically pleasing. you're the one flinging around insults and negative connotations about people's opinions here, i don't think anyone is confused where the vehemence lies. i wonder why you even would want to play this game if it's literally one wrong step away from falling into ruin.

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