Sanctum of Domination Lag Update
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
For the past several weeks, we’ve received and acted on reports of lag in the Sanctum of Domination raid, particularly during the Sylvanas encounter. We’ve been working hard to understand and resolve the issues, but we overlooked telling you that. We apologize for that oversight, and we will strive to do better in the future.

The most common complaint we received was that there was a burst of lag when Sylvanas is first engaged. Our server performance group dug into those reports, and we found the cause – there are a higher-than-usual number of calculations being done at the start of the fight to facilitate the complex mechanics of the encounter. We’re looking into ways we can potentially improve this, but we have to be careful to not change the design or mechanics of the encounter. While this is something that we think we can improve over time, there will still be a few seconds of server lag on pull for now.

Outside of that moment, our main challenge in diagnosing these lag reports came from the fact that lag was reported in almost every phase of the fight, and we were unable to reproduce that lag in our test cases. In addition to examining our own internal testing, when we utilized our performance analysis tools on actual live raids that reported they were experiencing lag, the server always appeared to be functioning smoothly. This guided our focus elsewhere.

What we eventually discovered is that the Sylvanas fight in particular is very messaging-heavy, the mechanics involved require sending many frequent updates to the player’s game clients, which in itself isn’t a problem. However, we discovered that an unrelated change to how we organize and distribute server processes across our server hardware, combined with accumulated changes over time to how our hardware server infrastructure is organized, resulted in our server processes being more concentrated across our hardware.

We believe all of these factors combined to make the messaging overload happen more commonly and cause lag.

With our most recent weekly maintenance, we’ve deployed several changes to how we distribute server processes across our infrastructure, which should alleviate this potential source of lag. Please let us know about your experiences in Sanctum of Domination going forward, especially if you can capture video of any new misbehavior.

Thank you very much for your valuable feedback!
This article was originally published in forum thread: Sanctum of Domination Lag Update started by Lumy View original post
Comments 70 Comments
  1. Toby451's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And then there are Korthia and desmowhatever, so god damn laggy almost all of the time. Don't make me mention the world boss, too. Okay I did.

    Why does Blizzard keep creating world bosses from patch to another when they are just complete dogshit lagfests which wow/the server infrastructure can't handle.

    They are:
    1. Stupid loot lotteries
    2. Lagfests themselves
    3. Lag the whole server
    4. Not challenging at all
    5. Not fun
    6. A chore
    Dont do it then? I dont like PvP so I dont do it. It works great.
  1. Mendzia's Avatar
    Do not forget to destroy documentation from these leg reports...
  1. Julmara's Avatar
    cool now make it so when a group is doing the worldboss i dont lag like hell in korthia
    its so far apart why is it even like this ?
  1. darklogrus's Avatar
    We'll do better!" You guys cant keep saying this without actually "doing better"
  1. GnomeEU's Avatar
    I think encounters are scripted. Which means they are created in a visual editor which just isn't very efficient compared to c++ code. But this is just my guess.
  1. Icelin's Avatar
    Thanks for the fixes. Please have a secret phase for mythic next time.
  1. Cren's Avatar
    This thread is really a very good example of why most developers (including Blizzard before this post) don't give much details about technical things and issues.

    The only thing that happens is just bitching and moaning and lots of people who think they know better about the technical stuff.

    Just like this thread turned in to right away.
  1. erifwodahs's Avatar
    Good stuff, communication is key!
  1. Forogil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    this doesn't make sense, since she doesn't do anything during the first 10sec of the pull. Whats there to calculate?

    The lagg is at the pull, not when she uses mechanics.
    It might be that they pre-compute numbers for the mechanics in some way.

    Why they have to pre-compute them (could be due to their infrastructure for boss-fights), and why it cannot be done in parallel with something else to avoid the lag I don't know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And then there are Korthia and desmowhatever, so god damn laggy almost all of the time. Don't make me mention the world boss, too. Okay I did.

    Why does Blizzard keep creating world bosses from patch to another when they are just complete dogshit lagfests which wow/the server infrastructure can't handle
    Because there is a faction in Blizzard that thinks that the more players the more epic, and too few to reign them in. That's why we got TMvSS and Oondasta; and still get world bosses. I assume they also want world-bosses instead of instances so that people who happen to run around in that region of the map will see the "epic" fight, and want to join in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    And if you read the third paragraph, it states:

    "What we eventually discovered is that the Sylvanas fight in particular is very messaging-heavy, the mechanics involved require sending many frequent updates to the player’s game clients, which in itself isn’t a problem. However, we discovered that an unrelated change to how we organize and distribute server processes across our server hardware, combined with accumulated changes over time to how our hardware server infrastructure is organized, resulted in our server processes being more concentrated across our hardware."

    So it's not the scripting that's the problem, it's the hardware infrastructure. It's like putting new tires on your car but forgetting to put snow chains on then thinking your tires are no good.
    There were two problems - but as the post you replied to explained, the common theme is that they made the fights too complex for their servers (finding the bottlenecks in the hardware and software is a separate issue).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Good stuff, communication is key!
    Yup, don't want to be ungrateful - and good that they work on it.
  1. Orwell7's Avatar
    So basically they admit they are a multi-dollar indie company, where money"making" middle-men are infinitely more important than hiring AND PAYING good professionals.
    Ha
    Ha
    Ha.
  1. Enter Name Here's Avatar
    so that lag on sylvanas pull really is a thing?
    my guildmates always call the lag on every pull
    I never was able to notice it.
  1. Kumorii's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    this doesn't make sense, since she doesn't do anything during the first 10sec of the pull. Whats there to calculate?

    The lagg is at the pull, not when she uses mechanics.
    Because when the fight starts is when the fights mechanics and numbers initializes... As you say, it's not the mechanics that makes it lag. It's the "loading" of the encounter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Enter Name Here View Post
    so that lag on sylvanas pull really is a thing?
    my guildmates always call the lag on every pull
    I never was able to notice it.
    Same.. Or we'll, I get like 0.2 lag. But its gone after that.
  1. TickTickTick's Avatar
    we will strive to do better in the future
    A quick summary of the state of WoW in the last 10 years lol.
  1. Resheph's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And then there are Korthia and desmowhatever, so god damn laggy almost all of the time. Don't make me mention the world boss, too. Okay I did.
    Don't confuse your own infrastructure with WOW's. Apart from the bad old days in Dalaran I never encounter lag, Korthia is smooth as a baby's bottom and world bosses anywhere go without a hitch...
  1. MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    tl;dr our hardware can't even handle the encounters we design anymore
    Was bound to happen at some point with escalating mechanics in raids. I suppose it's difficult after releasing so many raids over the years not to repeat yourself. So they just pile new stuff on. These stacking mechanics were a principal thing that annoyed me and caused me to bow out of raiding altogether. I know some people enjoy juggling that much stuff but I didn't find it to be especially fun. It seems logical that eventually they would try to put 12 pounds of stuff into a 10-pound container.
  1. arkanon's Avatar
    They didn't report on it earlier because every time they went to post a report, all the details had been shredded, I mean misplaced.
  1. Snotset's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    It might be that they pre-compute numbers for the mechanics in some way.

    Why they have to pre-compute them (could be due to their infrastructure for boss-fights), and why it cannot be done in parallel with something else to avoid the lag I don't know.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Because there is a faction in Blizzard that thinks that the more players the more epic, and too few to reign them in. That's why we got TMvSS and Oondasta; and still get world bosses. I assume they also want world-bosses instead of instances so that people who happen to run around in that region of the map will see the "epic" fight, and want to join in.

    - - - Updated - - -


    There were two problems - but as the post you replied to explained, the common theme is that they made the fights too complex for their servers (finding the bottlenecks in the hardware and software is a separate issue).

    - - - Updated - - -


    Yup, don't want to be ungrateful - and good that they work on it.

    going by what blizzard themselves have said in the past. Everything and your own character is just a template on a blizzard server. and they crosscheck it back on every single client to make sure it fits and then makes out the difference. probably done that way to prevent cheating I imagine. Either way the real issue is that they're not flushing data properly so lagg gets progressively worse over the course of every major reset. And people who thinks that works better in something like c+ in this thread can imagine what happens if you loop code without and end or skip function.
  1. TBCCLOL's Avatar
    I love how people are still falling like sheep to this "charm offensive" post alike.

    After the shitshow PR they are encountering, they need to act with the SMILEY FACE and random buzz phrase like "Thank you very much for your valuable feedback!" "We listen to your feedback! " "Your passionate feedback"

    and people here are still getting baited, really things never change.
  1. Blackmist's Avatar
    That's the sort of update I'd like to see more of.

    Acknowledgement of the problem, explanation of what they think is causing it, and hope for a fix.

    I'd be intrigued to know what "calculations" it's doing at the start of the fight though. Probably looking at the number of hunters and working out how much drama it will cause by dropping the legendary for that alt on his first kill.
  1. Gratz's Avatar
    Awesome. Now fix the rest of the lag. I can't remember the last time I didn't do a m+ or raid over 160ms with 17 home.

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