Patch 9.2 - Class Tier Set Bonuses

DH bonuses feel so ... Lackluster compared to pretty much every other class.

Most of them are looking good, though. Nothing too overpowered.

I predict this will cause massive balance problems, and make people whine a WHOLE lot because their set bonuses aren't good enough, because they didn't get lucky with drops to get the set bonus immediately, or just because it's a Monday I guess.

I get why they're trying to bring back something from the olden days, but personally I think losing tier bonuses was a positive change, and this is a step backwards in a vain hope of appealing to people's nostalgia.

But I'm always happy to be proven wrong, of course. It won't bring me back to the game, but it might others. Who knows.

Originally Posted by Biomega

I predict this will cause massive balance problems, and make people whine a WHOLE lot because their set bonuses aren't good enough, because they didn't get lucky with drops to get the set bonus immediately, or just because it's a Monday I guess.

I get why they're trying to bring back something from the olden days, but personally I think losing tier bonuses was a positive change, and this is a step backwards in a vain hope of appealing to people's nostalgia.

But I'm always happy to be proven wrong, of course. It won't bring me back to the game, but it might others. Who knows.

It's not really a callback to an old concept, it was in the game 1.5 expansions ago roughly in Legion. Main reason it wasn't in BfA, as stated by the devs, is that it would've clashed with Azerite gear (which basically accomplished the same thing).

The real problem with tier sets is that it can lock you into certain slots on your gear never being changed, which is a legitimate concern. However, they've always had a solution to this problem and have been reusing/repurposing that system for a long time now for other means: the glyph system. We've gotten variations on the glyph system, such as the Legion weapon relics or the Shadowlands conduits, as when boiled down to their basic elements they are the same thing... it's just what hoops and restrictions each new variation has that sets them apart.

It's kind of silly at this point having Blizz worried about the tier sets eating up gear slots, when they keep introducing new systems that could allow them to accomplish the same goal without locking gear. Unfortunately, they shoot themselves in the foot every time with the new systems, and throw systems away just as easily to reinvent the wheel, so I shouldn't really be surprised at this point. It could even be as simple as getting xmog set items unlocking tier set bonuses for that tier, so you can get your bonuses while obtaining class-specific xmog and not restricting gear slots... doesn't have to be complicated at all.

Regardless, while I respect the idea of trying something new with Azerite gear, the state of the company is not in a position where I trust them with even a pair of scissors right now. I'd rather them focus on keeping aspects the game and adding onto the game, versus scrapping every expansion to make way for the new one.

Originally Posted by Biomega

I predict this will cause massive balance problems, and make people whine a WHOLE lot because their set bonuses aren't good enough, because they didn't get lucky with drops to get the set bonus immediately, or just because it's a Monday I guess.

I get why they're trying to bring back something from the olden days, but personally I think losing tier bonuses was a positive change, and this is a step backwards in a vain hope of appealing to people's nostalgia.

But I'm always happy to be proven wrong, of course. It won't bring me back to the game, but it might others. Who knows.

Yeah, i mean look at rsham. You dont even use chain heal anymore so basically the whole Set Bonus is useless in pvp. Doubt you use it in pve that much

i am wondering if all the effects that cast a specific spells also grand that spells secondary benefits, such as generating resources and proccing legendaries.

if yes, some might be borderline broken.
look at sub rogue 4p:
"Your finishing moves have a 4% chance per combo point to cast Shadowstrike at up to 5 nearby enemies."

if each of those generates combo points AND is affected by Akaari's (legendary that makes SS hit a 2nd time for less), that would be incredibly strong.

Disc 2 set is worthless in raids; Seems useful in PvP (though I don't believe the ilvl will scale up?) or M+ though.

4 set seems aight in raids I guess, probably not that useful elsewhere.

All in all, regardless of balance, It is nice to have set bonuses back. I always remember them as being a fun thing to look forward to each patch. I'm wondering if getting one set of tier gear gets you access to each specs bonuses upon re-talenting; Somehow I doubt it unfortunately.

That Ret set looks nice, but it will also make 25 row a no-brainer (there is a talent which increases Art of War proc rate)

Originally Posted by Ryzeth

DH bonuses feel so ... Lackluster compared to pretty much every other class.

Hi, Protection Warrior here. We share your Ignore Pain. To use the 2pc effectively, it feels like we're being asked to watch a new buff that stacks to 8, then suddenly change what order we use Shield Slam/Ignore Pain for only that period of time. I suspect 90%+ of my fellow Prot Warriors will ignore it. The 4pc Avatar bonus is better, and could be a reason to run Unstoppable Force/Anger Management. I am not complaining about the actual numbers. But it could be swapped out with a constant +5%/-5% and nobody would notice. Then I look at Protadins 4pc which basically says "You spam Judgement constantly therefore have infinite Holy Power" and Bear Tanks, which spams a significant self-heal and AoE friggin' Cosmic damage, and just think "Man, those sound far more exciting than what I'm getting". And then I see the Destro Warlock 4pc and cry a little, because I have no idea what DPS that will do, but it sounds like fun to get a free Rain of Fire and spike an Infernal in it.

Protection Warriors fall far behind every other tank class in healing right now (at least poking around at Warcraft Logs on Heroic they do) and in damage are middle of the road. Bear Tanks are the worst in damage, possibly because of raid design. Paladins are better at both, than both. I'm not saying nerf Paladins or take the healing from Bear Tanks who don't seem to need it as much as we do. Hell, after watching their damage even below Warriors I think that Bears are due something useful. I am saying, at least set the Warrior on fire or something so we have something interesting to look at while our effectively static buff is on.

You say the DH bonuses are lackluster and I am in no position to argue. But at least you'll be Blade Dancing all over the place and setting people on freaking fire. I have never played a Havoc DH, but I get the feeling that if I got a lucky proc and Blade Danced 3x in a row, I'd be a lot more excited than "when you turn to stone, you are 10% more stonier". At least you change your rotation in a meaningful way, even if only briefly by making you hit the Blade Dance button twice. I'm 99.78% convinced that I will never even once say "well I better delay my Avatar so I can get 8 stacks and get use those 8 stacks to get that sweet sweet +50% Ignore Pain, ha hah, ha hardy hah hah."

Originally Posted by Biomega

make people whine a WHOLE lot because their set bonuses aren't good enough

Well you were 100% right in my case. They haven't even hit the ground yet and I'm already saying "...that's it?"

Ugh. Forgive the rant, obviously these just appeared and all sorts of things will change. I'm just an old Warrior who should be used to disappointment and yet still gets surprised every time when nothing changes. At least I'll have my Boots of 8 Second Angel Rootspear, which I am unironically looking forward to.

Originally Posted by Ryzeth

DH bonuses feel so ... Lackluster compared to pretty much every other class.

Most of them are looking good, though. Nothing too overpowered.

The vengeance bonuses are outright broken OP. Not going live like that.

Originally Posted by Breccia

They haven't even hit the ground yet and I'm already saying "...that's it?"

Ugh. Forgive the rant, obviously these just appeared and all sorts of things will change.

It's entirely understandable that people would be worried - Blizzard's track record of "don't worry it's only Alpha/Beta/PTR, they'll fix it for release..." isn't exactly spectacular.

Originally Posted by Biomega

It's entirely understandable that people would be worried - Blizzard's track record of "don't worry it's only Alpha/Beta/PTR, they'll fix it for release..." isn't exactly spectacular.

I would say "especially for Warriors" if I wanted a textbook example of Confirmation Bias. I'm guessing half the class/specs say that, at minimum. Protection Warriors seem to get the fewest changes in patch notes in the last....every expansion, but as it's basically all I ever play, I'm probably hypersensitive to it. Still, if someone were to make the bet "did Prot Warriors get the upper/lower half of changes?" I would plunk down spidermount levels of money on lower without even blinking. These 2pc/4pc bonuses are so boring that there's nothing to tune but a number.

And I am not kidding about the cosmetic stuff. My complaint isn't the numbers suck, it's that I won't change a damn thing while using them. Set my Avatar stone ass on green fire and these complaints evaporate like a lvl 30 gnome in Orgrimmar.

Reactions from a guy who plays way too much of this game --

R Shaman's bonus needs to be completely redesigned. What the actual fuck were they thinking?

Ele's bonus looks good, esp if you're NF; Enh looks good too, perhaps a bit too synergistic if the proc rate is high

SPriest bonus looks okay, wish they'd have made a bonus to help smooth out Insanity generation between ST/multitarget

Hunter bonuses are perfectly okay

Balance/Guardian bonuses are pretty nifty

Blood DK synergizes well with Crimson Rune Weapon, looks strong for M+ though I'll miss Superstrain.

Mage bonuses look good though I'm not digging the Frost bonus nearly as much as Fire/Arcane's

BRM's bonus looks like it was designed by a person who doesn't play BRM, therefore it's exactly as expected

WW bonus is poggers if you can line it up with strong cooldowns (getting a proc during the bonus will be straight omegalul material)

There's no way that VDH bonus goes live as-is. Havoc's pretty cool.

Overall, pretty decent first draft. I expect some stuff to be toned down/buffed. I expect a few reworks, too. Hoping to God that Shaman tier doesn't go live though, it's just bad.

Originally Posted by Relapses

I expect some stuff to be toned down/buffed. I expect a few reworks, too.

Considering the other news about 9.2 being delayed, yeah.

Originally Posted by Relapses

Hoping to God that Shaman tier doesn't go live though, it's just bad.

Dare I ask which one? EDIT: Nevermind, you meant Chain Resto.

Originally Posted by Breccia

Considering the other news about 9.2 being delayed, yeah.



Dare I ask which one? EDIT: Nevermind, you meant Chain Resto.

It's anti-synergistic. Like, I get maybe they wanted to make it worth casting CHeal but this set bonus does nothing to help with the spell's inefficiency or mana cost. Plus, the entire reason you'd want to cast it, SLT CDR, relies entirely on RNG to maximize potential so it's either extremely difficult to plan around at best or it's completely fucking useless at worst. (Unless the brainlets at Blizzard think that it's okay for a R Shaman to just send a SLT every time it's off CD.) It's a mind numbingly stupid set bonus. First draft, I get it ... but like, there's almost no positive benefit for this one so I really hope they go back to the drawing board for it.

Originally Posted by Relapses

It's anti-synergistic. Like, I get maybe they wanted to make it worth casting CHeal but this set bonus does nothing to help with the spell's inefficiency or mana cost. Plus, the entire reason you'd want to cast it, SLT CDR, relies entirely on RNG to maximize potential so it's either extremely difficult to plan around at best or it's completely fucking useless at worst. (Unless the brainlets at Blizzard think that it's okay for a R Shaman to just send a SLT every time it's off CD.) It's a mind numbingly stupid set bonus. First draft, I get it ... but like, there's almost no positive benefit for this one so I really hope they go back to the drawing board for it.

Ever heard of a talent called High Tide? Because it seems to have synergy with that... You need to look past icy veins guides and you'll surely find great use of that set bonus. (EDIT: And the SLT bonus will find great use for sure; it already would in the current tier, where there are certain damage phases on a time cycle shorter than the SLT cd, making it impossible to use it on every cycle.)

Originally Posted by Breccia

You say the DH bonuses are lackluster and I am in no position to argue. But at least you'll be Blade Dancing all over the place and setting people on freaking fire.

In DH's current state, blade dance is only ever used in AoE at 3+ targets. The blade dance build isn't great, and these bonuses aren't really going to change that with just how good the non-BD build is. Unless they make Trail+First Blood better than Unbound Chaos, it's still not going to be used single target.

The Vengeance one is definitely good, but I never said they weren't. I said they were lackluster. As in, boring and dull. Compared to like... The spriest one, or all the warlock ones, which sound super fun.

I'll remain optimistic anyway, since we have like two months minimum before it even goes live.

Unholy DK seems nice, it's mostly passive and just looks to give you more unholy stuff happening. Blood seems fine as well. Frost is .. okay I guess. Still won't change the meta sadly

Arcane mage 2 piece seems rather broken with the current way we play arcane (kyrian), on the other hand the 4 piece seems.. pointless?
Edit: Eh well, if I take the no cooldown to mean the actual cooldown and not just the GCD, then i guess it's just a free little bonus every now and then. Fine enough. Not sold on the losing 2% HP/sec during combustion for fire though. Frost sounds awsome for M+, though sadly I doubt it will rectify current frost being retarded spell spam without thought.

Man the biggest failing of SL for me is that both frost specs' sensible meta ingame ended up being the way I least like to play them.

Originally Posted by Ryzeth

In DH's current state, blade dance is only ever used in AoE at 3+ targets. The blade dance build isn't great, and these bonuses aren't really going to change that with just how good the non-BD build is. Unless they make Trail+First Blood better than Unbound Chaos, it's still not going to be used single target.

The Vengeance one is definitely good, but I never said they weren't. I said they were lackluster. As in, boring and dull. Compared to like... The spriest one, or all the warlock ones, which sound super fun.

I'll remain optimistic anyway, since we have like two months minimum before it even goes live.

They need to make First Blood baseline already. It's a joke that you don't use Blade Dance in single target.

Blizzard is now LISTENING a lot, so im sure all the weak bonuses will be buffed and the lackluster ones redesigned before 9.2 goes live!

its meaningless as content will be tuned X % harder then current tuning to offset those set bonuses .

in the you will feel 0 difference how your class plays this tier.