Sephuz Leaves Blizzard Entertainment, Carbot Animations - The Ancient Way (DiabLoL 2)

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

It's clear the system wasn't designed for min-maxers to mindlessly obsess over to push out yet another sliver of DPS.

They were meant as a "wow, what a cool item!" reward for 99% of the playerbase.

Yoooo Ion, when did you start posting on the forums?

Originally Posted by GreenJesus

The problem isn't that those systems exist. The problem is the friction Blizzard implements that prevents you from using them the way you want and then finally when you start having fun with them in X.3.5 blizzard removes them and starts from square 1 again.

I disagree. The problem is they exist. Anytime you have a huge power boost that you can only get by doing a lot of time gated very easy content (which is how every system works) it’s bad design.

I keep going back to my experience with essences at the end of BFA. If you started a new char during the last patch, you had to go back and spend weeks farming mechagon or nazjatar for essences. I remember being 460 ilvl and the mechagon stuff dropped what, 385 or something? and somehow it was the optimal content for me to do because there was no other way to get the right essence. Bullshit. Utter time wasting bullshit.

I’m glad this guy is gone, don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Just think about how you would feel if you were responsible for building content that millions hated and viewed as a waste of time, but you did it because the bosses were convinced it would make them money. Sounds horrible.

dont worry, danuser will step up and take his role.

story writing is too easy for him anyway, he can do it both.

Originally Posted by ElDoorO

Let's test this theory of yours. Let's look up Warlocks. How many are night fae?

Are you prepared to say that warlocks just chose night fae because of ... looks? Because an OBSCENE amount of warlocks are night fae. What was it, something like over 90%?

So are you SURE the majority aren't min-maxers? Because I'm not sure you're right in that regard. I would argue most people are casual min-maxers in that they are going to do what they are told is best / ideal.

You can look at the statistics and you'll find most people tend to use many of the same lego's the top players do, follow the same talent builds, etc. They don't choose the "fun" stuff because doing less dps is not fun, for the majority of the people out there.

Again, this is the mentality that Blizzard keeps catering to and is losing massive amounts of players due to. The vast, vast VAST majority of people don't even log their character anywhere but in game so the data that you're quoting is massively biased towards a population that is already min max.

Originally Posted by Flaks

Again, this is the mentality that Blizzard keeps catering to and is losing massive amounts of players due to. The vast, vast VAST majority of people don't even log their character anywhere but in game so the data that you're quoting is massively biased towards a population that is already min max.

Brah... we tried covenants you where blown the fuck out when everyone went with what was best.

Let the dead rest stop beating the dead horse.

At first glance I thought it was the "Dont you guys have phones?" from the diablo team.

Originally Posted by Velshin

At first glance I thought it was the "Dont you guys have phones?" from the diablo team.

Honestly from what I have seen meeting him at old blizzcons he doesn't seem a bad guy. I think he just drew the short straw to be the blood sacrifice to announce it.

He got his Shield + Sword after 10 years so his BiS gear was done.

The "only x% of the players are min-maxers" argument is wrong and stupid.

Why should the x% of the players suffer if they could do it better? Does that mean the minorities don't matter as long as the rest of the playerbase get the items they probably have no idea how to use? What kind of point is that... lol

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Most players never knew that, and most didn't care. Nor would that be relevant in almost all of Legion's content.

I reject this narrative. Covenant choices at the beggining of shadowlands proved most players care.

That narrative that it's only a few and most don't care is false.
In truth, the ones that don't care are the minority.

So, you best come up with a different story to cope.

Are we gonna remove the in game references now? Or the PR stunt is over?

He left 9 days ago, why post it now?

Danuser, Ion, those trash devs still in blizzard LOL..

Ah when the wokeness no longer allows you to do your work... you humbly put in your two weeks notice and never look back.

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Or you could have just not gotten legendary drops at all, which would have been no different from just having the regular tier/raid loot drops.

You expected those pieces of gear to be owed to you, despite the fact that content was not scaled on a blizzard-end to require every raider to have every optimal legendary or the encounter would be impossible.

Take it from me as a mount hunter who has been running the headless horseman since WotLK and has a combined 5 years worth of lockout kills on deathwing without either a headless horseman's steed or blazing drake to show for it: you aren't "owed" any piece of loot.

The legiondaries were quite obviously designed in the way I said: a cool bonus piece of gear as a neat reward to get every now and again.

Its true that you aren't "owed" anything, but the 2 examples you like to compare are only comparable in their drop rate. the effect they have on you in the rest of your game is vastly different.

You finally getting a mount that you have been hunting for an absurd amount of time will grant you closure or maybe a sense of completion, which is cool, and if its to get to a goal of getting ALL mounts you have now progressed to that goal by about 1/900 or so ( i don't actually know the max amount of mounts ); which in relative terms is about a 0.001% increase to your completion, maybe the fact that its so rare makes it bigger or feel better than that %. But the fact remains that it is a personal achievement with no impact or interaction with anyone else, the only way that you would be in competion with others if you would like to be is to go on a leaderboard site and check how far you are off pos#1. in that sense you could farm a Solo game that has a leaderboard of who's collection is most complete and you would end up nearly the same scenario.

People who are playing the very interactive part of the game like raiding/m+/PvP, need to be competitive in that environment, and do not have the luxery to not have an impact, if you want to compete with, or alongside other players, you have to be on a playing field that is as level as you can get, or if possible be the one with higher capabilities/skills/gear, anything that makes you more desirable than others. In this endeavor all people will strive for the maximum they can obtain. In Legion's case, a piece of equipment that increases your capabilities in whatever role you play by x% more than a regular or alternative piece would give you, is a very desirable piece, and if we all find out that it is whats needed to output as much healing/dps/mitigation or anything else, you'll need it, because others already do, you are now less desirable by not having it, therefore you are in trouble, its harder to progress the power of your character.
And that is where the problems were with the legion legendary AQUISITION and balance, you only got one piece every so often, if you receive your best ones as the very last ones, you are perpetually behind. and to make matters worse, at the end of the legion expansion, they fix it, by simply allowing you to farm what you need, making all the strife you had to go trough if you were extremely unlucky feel even worse, because they aren't opposed to fixing it, just not yet.

I can get that as a mount farmer you can also feel behind or wronged that a drop that you feel like you should have gotten by now, doesn't drop for you is insanely obnoxious, even though you have states that by now you feel like "blizzard doesn't owe you anything", but what not getting a mount doesn't do is get you barred from or have far more difficulty to enter content where that competitiveness matters (aka middle to high end raid/m+). if the mount doesn't drop for you this week it doesn't get more difficult to get in and try again, perhaps it does in an emotional or mental way, but there is no one to tell you that you can't, you just walk up to the raid, go in alone, and try again to get the mount.

In closing, yes blizzard doesn't owe you a piece that you desperately desire, but it does require them to make a game where players know that it is because of their own lack of effort that they didn't get what they want, and not trough an arbitrary system that dishes out luck to some and not to others is a tangible and observable way. And even if you don't agree with my opinion of what is owed, at the end of the day, if blizzard doesn't provide that, i don't enjoy the game, therefore i quit, therefore a loss of revenue, and i know for damn sure that there are a lot of raiders in all levels of raiding experience that felt like this, most of them are no longer playing.

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

It's clear the system wasn't designed for min-maxers to mindlessly obsess over to push out yet another sliver of DPS.

They were meant as a "wow, what a cool item!" reward for 99% of the playerbase.

and when i look back at the 1 year after Legion release (08/16) in the official forums:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...aries%20legion

and read threads like these:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nd-why/3725/98

… then i am still searching for the 99% posts that saying „wow, what a cool item“ legendary concept.

reason:
i just wanted to compare my own memory with official forums, since i nowhere in 2017 saw this ominous 99% persons you are talking bout, iirc.

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Or you could have just not gotten legendary drops at all, which would have been no different from just having the regular tier/raid loot drops.

You expected those pieces of gear to be owed to you, despite the fact that content was not scaled on a blizzard-end to require every raider to have every optimal legendary or the encounter would be impossible.

Take it from me as a mount hunter who has been running the headless horseman since WotLK and has a combined 5 years worth of lockout kills on deathwing without either a headless horseman's steed or blazing drake to show for it: you aren't "owed" any piece of loot.

The legiondaries were quite obviously designed in the way I said: a cool bonus piece of gear as a neat reward to get every now and again.

In competitive play you cannot rng legendaries that dramatically changed your dps. It was a liability for top end guild to have people who did not have it. Thats why the cutting edge players would make multiple same class alts to try and get the one they needed. Should have come in with the currency system to target specific ones out the gate. If it had that it would be the number 1 expansion for almost everyone as that is the main complaint.

Originally Posted by GreenJesus

Why do you think the fact players didn't have any agency made getting a bad legendary a good situation? "Well my professor drew lots for who would get an F in his class and I got pulled, so I guess I'll just fail the class. Seems fair." System being outside of your control doesn't mean you should accept that it happened to you. Are you just being a contratrian for the sake of it? When something is unfair, most people get upset.

Originally Posted by Boddhi

You do not need to be a min-maxer to not make your characterly actively way less performant than possible by chosing the covenant you prefer over the one that's the best for your spec. Players want to have fun, being bad / way worse than others not being caused by your playing skills is not fun.

And I contend most people didn't know it was "unfair" and didn't participate in content in which this "unfairness" would manifest in any meaningful way. I.E, they didn't care.

Originally Posted by Eace

Casual guilds would not bench players over legendaries, sure, but check any guild that's at least semi-serious about Mythic raiding. They would have not hesitated to bench your character if your rng luck locked you into an underperforming legendary

"Any guild that's at least semi-serious about Mythic rating" is already a tiny fraction of the playerbase. As in, "less than 10% of the playerbase"

This is simply not true. Most players are, and were even back in Legion, "min maxers" about these choices. For example, you can check on Wowhead what covenant the players of each spec have currently chosen. Even though covenants are not terribly inbalanced for the most part, the vast majority of characters for each spec have chosen the covenant that performs the best. In other words, the majority of players are, indeed, "min maxers".

They min-max on covenants because they are presented with a rather straightforward four-way choice over the matter. Legendaries presented no such "choice" to be made.

The legendary system at the beginning of Legion was simply not well designed, there's just no argument about it.

It was poorly designed... for min-maxers.

Which you could also say about warforging, titanforging, random gem slots, bad loot rolls, and Vanilla and BC legendaries.

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Originally Posted by Niwes

and when i look back at the 1 year after Legion release (08/16) in the official forums:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...aries%20legion

and read threads like these:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nd-why/3725/98

… then i am still searching for the 99% posts that saying „wow, what a cool item“ legendary concept.

reason:
i just wanted to compare my own memory with official forums, since i nowhere in 2017 saw this ominous 99% persons you are talking bout, iirc.

Ah yes, self reporting sample-sizes. The best analysis of everything, obviously.

Basically the yelp reviews of content.

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Originally Posted by Vampyrr

In competitive play...

You, with this sentence, have already moved the goalposts past what most players do in WoW.

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Originally Posted by Swnem

I reject this narrative. Covenant choices at the beggining of shadowlands proved most players care.

That narrative that it's only a few and most don't care is false.
In truth, the ones that don't care are the minority.

So, you best come up with a different story to cope.

I've listed numerous times that covenant choices are different from legendaries one randomly receives.


And I don't need to "cope" with anything; ya'll seem to be the ones getting butthurt over innocuous gameplay choices. I really don't care either way. So... stay angry and irritable, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Biggles Worth

Yoooo Ion, when did you start posting on the forums?

If I had any pull at Blizzard we'd have had a Devilsaur mount added to the game years ago.

Yeah 10 days ago...

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

And I contend most people didn't know it was "unfair" and didn't participate in content in which this "unfairness" would manifest in any meaningful way. I.E, they didn't care.



"Any guild that's at least semi-serious about Mythic rating" is already a tiny fraction of the playerbase. As in, "less than 10% of the playerbase"



They min-max on covenants because they are presented with a rather straightforward four-way choice over the matter. Legendaries presented no such "choice" to be made.



It was poorly designed... for min-maxers.

Which you could also say about warforging, titanforging, random gem slots, bad loot rolls, and Vanilla and BC legendaries.

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Ah yes, self reporting sample-sizes. The best analysis of everything, obviously.

Basically the yelp reviews of content.

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You, with this sentence, have already moved the goalposts past what most players do in WoW.

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I've listed numerous times that covenant choices are different from legendaries one randomly receives.


And I don't need to "cope" with anything; ya'll seem to be the ones getting butthurt over innocuous gameplay choices. I really don't care either way. So... stay angry and irritable, I guess?

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If I had any pull at Blizzard we'd have had a Devilsaur mount added to the game years ago.

mhh mhh mhh … ok … ok … ok… hmmmmm. no.

but, ok.