Warcraft III: Reforged Update, CarbotAnimations - Diablo Immoral, DLC #822

Oh that Dark Legacy comic hit the nail on the head, get ready for a new faction war kiddies!

Honestly, if that's all for Reforged, it basically just feels like Ybarra was caught offguard during the stream a few months ago, stumbled over a Reforged question and then had to put someone on Reforged to implement some basic features to keep up appearance.

Like seriously, lines like "Many of you have asked for us to support some of the features which were a part of the original Warcraft III experience." are just confusing.
What is this?
This isn't WoW Classic which was supposed to be a authentic relaunch, it's supposed to be a Remaster, an enhanced version of the original product.

If you implement seasons, at the very fucking least put in some balance changes that each season is slightly different than the previous one.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Honestly, if that's all for Reforged, it basically just feels like Ybarra was caught offguard during the stream a few months ago, stumbled over a Reforged question and then had to put someone on Reforged to implement some basic features to keep up appearance.

Like seriously, lines like "Many of you have asked for us to support some of the features which were a part of the original Warcraft III experience." are just confusing.
What is this?
This isn't WoW Classic which was supposed to be a authentic relaunch, it's supposed to be a Remaster, an enhanced version of the original product.

If you implement seasons, at the very fucking least put in some balance changes that each season is slightly different than the previous one.

They literally said "we have more updates coming, keep an eye out"

Why would you instantly jump to "if that's really all they have"

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

They literally said "we have more updates coming, keep an eye out"

Because i'd expect more than just them announcing reimplementing removed features and the addition of seasons.
Especially if said announcement of a season skips out on balance changes.

Let's not forget that Blizzard already said in regards to Reforged the infamous "Our actions speak louder than words" line, and the actions were almost two years of silence.

But if Reforged is the hill you die on for Blizzard...go ahead.

I really just want them to release the old client again. Let us play the original game. Fire up the old Battle.net servers and make it so WC3 installs stay as WC3 and don't auto-update to Reforged. This is all I want, please.

They could have rolled back WC3 to its original client and it would have been a huge improvement. They need to completely re-do Reforged in order to save it.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Because i'd expect more than just them announcing reimplementing removed features and the addition of seasons.
Especially if said announcement of a season skips out on balance changes.

Let's not forget that Blizzard already said in regards to Reforged the infamous "Our actions speak louder than words" line, and the actions were almost two years of silence.

But if Reforged is the hill you die on for Blizzard...go ahead.

This isn't about a hill to die on, it's about them straight up saying one thing and then you saying the complete opposite.

They wouldn't bother to suddenly speak up saying they have updates coming if they're not doing anything. And they're not going to waste time revealing it if it's not ready.

If it comes down to random poster on mmoc or what Blizzard is saying, then I'm going to err towards Blizzard knowing they're not in a situation to shoot themselves in the foot right now, and considering how active they've been with SL with the last patch and recently.

I'd just like them to fix some of the stupid shit in the editor pls

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

And they're not going to waste time revealing it if it's not ready.

Thing is that they've revealed right now isn't something that i consider remotely compensating considering they left this project in the rain for two whole years, are just starting to repair the damage that Reforged has done to WC3.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

If it comes down to random poster on mmoc or what Blizzard is saying, then I'm going to err towards Blizzard knowing they're not in a situation to shoot themselves in the foot right now, and considering how active they've been with SL with the last patch and recently.

Okay, let's just ignore the big elephant in the room that is the fact that Blizzard already promised updates for Reforged shortly after its launch.
And then the whole project went silent. For two years.

But go on, put on your blinders and pretend that the people who have been disappointed by Reforged, its update record and frankly do not trust Blizzard anymore are the problem here.

Seriously, i remind you again that it was Blizzard that said "Our actions speak louder than words" in regards to Reforged.
Call me anything, but i didn't lie about my intentions whether i keep updating a project for which people have paid money for.

And if you believe that Blizzard isn't above shooting themselves in the foot, you haven't paid an ounce of attention in the last 3 years.

Originally Posted by McNeil

They could have rolled back WC3 to its original client and it would have been a huge improvement. They need to completely re-do Reforged in order to save it.

Yeah. Pretty much. I called this update when Ybarra's quote was doing the rounds.

I get that they must be working on something. But it would be nice to know what they are working on, to temper our expectations.

Imagine still having faith that they will repair Deforged.
Good thing is that i still have installed original W3:FT on my usb drive so i can play whenever i want on old client.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Thing is that they've revealed right now isn't something that i consider remotely compensating considering they left this project in the rain for two whole years, are just starting to repair the damage that Reforged has done to WC3.

Almost as if there was a major pandemic and massive lawsuits they were worrying about instead, along with other workload.

They outsourced the game for a reason.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Okay, let's just ignore the big elephant in the room that is the fact that Blizzard already promised updates for Reforged shortly after its launch.
And then the whole project went silent. For two years.

See above.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

But go on, put on your blinders and pretend that the people who have been disappointed by Reforged, its update record and frankly do not trust Blizzard anymore are the problem here.

Ridiculing a point doesn't make a point.

You're ignoring that warcraft 3 reforged is the oddball here, not the norm.
We have D2 and SC who had remakes that were perfectly fine and even praised.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

And if you believe that Blizzard isn't above shooting themselves in the foot, you haven't paid an ounce of attention in the last 3 years.

A vague claim doesn't make a point.

You can clearly see how in the last year alone Blizzard has been trying to make massive strides to fix issues.
Shadowlands alone went under massive changes that were contributed directly to feedback that they got.

This isn't just being cautious about them at this point, it's starting to sound like you'd just rather they didn't do ANYTHING to fix the game.

Ranked games... after 2 years?

The Wc3:deforged/refunded is strong.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Almost as if there was a major pandemic and massive lawsuits they were worrying about instead, along with other workload.

The pandemic isn't to blame, but the fact that Blizzard dismantled the Classic team behind the scenes without telling the customers.

Nevermind that this pandemic business started like what, two years ago?
It stopped being an excuse for WoW, why should Reforged get a free pass?

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

They outsourced the game for a reason.

Art was outsourced and other contractors (such as David Fried) were ghosted by Blizzard when they chose to slash the funding of the project.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

You're ignoring that warcraft 3 reforged is the oddball here, not the norm.
We have D2 and SC who had remakes that were perfectly fine and even praised.

So?
This isn't about those remakes, it's about Reforged.

Nevermind that D2:Ressurected was fully outsourced to VV, unlike Reforged where only Art Assets where outsourced.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

A vague claim doesn't make a point.

It's not a vague point, Blizzard promised updates and fired the team behind the scenes.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Shadowlands alone went under massive changes that were contributed directly to feedback that they got.

Yes, possibly because if you remove WoW from Blizzards bottomline, there isn't much left in the last years besides HS.
And let's not play dumb and pretend that this wasn't due to the player exodus in 2021 forcing their hand.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

This isn't just being cautious about them at this point, it's starting to sound like you'd just rather they didn't do ANYTHING to fix the game.

This is utterly stupid.
I want them to fix Reforged, but what does Blizzard actually plan to fix?

The Artstyle? It's been often criticized, does Blizzard plan to change this?
Multiplayer campaigns? Those also need to be re added.
Connection issues? I recently replayed Warcraft 3, on multiple missions i had to restart the mission shortly after starting it because i got disconnected (not my Internet, i just WC3)
More Missions being remade? You know, more than the 3 that they've remade?
New models for custommaps creators to play around with?
Maybe Custommaps made by Blizzard themselves, similiar to Azeroth Grand prix?
More support for custommap creators?
Scratch that whole "we own custom maps" from the ToS of their map editor?
Who is actually in charge of Reforged now? Maybe that person should present themselves to the community, possibly answer some of the questions above.

Warcraft 3 Reforged really has a lot of space to improve upon and it would be great to know what Blizzard actually plans to fix, rather than just handing out vague promises over more updates coming.
We already had that in 2020, i don't want any promises of updates, i want to know what they're planning to update.
We had vague promises in 2020, there we got nothing.

So if they actually want to signal that they've changed, how about some communication on what they actually plan to work on.
They've underdelivered in the past, now they need to make up for it.

Warcraft three megathreaders rejoice! We are getting a ranked mode

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Sluvs

Yeah. Pretty much. I called this update when Ybarra's quote was doing the rounds.

I get that they must be working on something. But it would be nice to know what they are working on, to temper our expectations.

I'm just happy that we might actually not have to deal with utter trash for a reforged client

Originally Posted by Kralljin

.So if they actually want to signal that they've changed, how about some communication on what they actually plan to work on.
They've underdelivered in the past, now they need to make up for it.

You mean like how they just said they'll be doing so and to keep an eye out for the future?

You claim you want them to fix the game, but here they post that there's more coming and you're immediately ripping into it, of course it comes across as you not wanting them to do anything.

For the rest, to quickly bullet point.

-there's still a pandemic going on, it hasn't gone away.

-comparing to other remakes isn't irrelevant, you can't dismiss it just because you don't want to hear it.

-the fabled player exodus that no one can actually prove existed, yet we literally had devs come out saying that a lot of the changes and listening to feedback came from the higher ups actually listening to the devs

They need to realm reborn Reforged tbh

Originally Posted by Sluvs

Yeah. Pretty much. I called this update when Ybarra's quote was doing the rounds.

for anyone curious: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53800433

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

You mean like how they just said they'll be doing so and to keep an eye out for the future?

Okay, what are they working on?
What are they planning to fix in the grand scheme of things?

Again, promises of updates without any details of what's actually planned for the future, we already had in the past, there Blizzard didn't deliver.
If they want to show that they've changed, then do things differentely.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

-there's still a pandemic going on, it hasn't gone away.

If a tech company like Blizzard hasn't adapted to the pandemic after 2,5 years, they are frankly just incompetent.
I work for a machining manufacturer, if anyone would show up there and say that a project suffers delays at the design stage because of the pandemic in 2022, they would get laughed out of the room.

Blizzard is part of the tech sector, one of the few industry branches that has had the easiest time to adapt because basically their entire production pipeline can be managed without any employee ever physically meeting.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

-comparing to other remakes isn't irrelevant, you can't dismiss it just because you don't want to hear it.

It is, i care about the products i purchased, not the ones i didn't.

Stop shifting the goalposts to other Blizzard projects, this is about Reforged.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

-the fabled player exodus that no one can actually prove existed, yet we literally had devs come out saying that a lot of the changes and listening to feedback came from the higher ups actually listening to the devs

Oh sure, okay, Blizzard just had the divine insight after almost a year to implement the changes people have been asking for since the announcement of Shadowlands.

But hey, that would be at least consistent with their previous design patterns.

Originally Posted by Jester Joe

Almost as if there was a major pandemic and massive lawsuits they were worrying about instead, along with other workload.

They outsourced the game for a reason.

This is literally not why the game had issues and isn't even a valid argument in regards to why updates have taken over 2 years.

Originally Posted by Bloomberg

Blizzard chose to plow ahead with a premature release of Warcraft III: Reforged largely because it had already taken pre-orders from players, according to people familiar with the decision. The company couldn’t bump the game too much more without potentially being forced to send out refunds and risking that fans wouldn’t buy the game again.

In notes from an internal postmortem of the game reviewed by Bloomberg, developers on Warcraft III: Reforged acknowledged this issue. "We took pre-orders when we knew the game wasn't ready yet," they said, adding later that the company needed to “resist the urge to ship an unfinished product because of financial pressure.”

The Blizzard spokesman said that “in hindsight, we should have taken more time to get it right, even if it meant returning pre-orders.”

...

But behind the scenes, things weren’t going well. Members of the team began worrying that they had promised more than they could deliver. Remastering Warcraft III was more complicated than their previous remake, StarCraft, thanks to its three-dimensional models. The team was small, the production was disorganized and the amount of work in front of them was daunting. It had taken months to revamp one of Warcraft III’s levels; now they would have to do the same for dozens more.

Morale plummeted. Rob Bridenbecker, the head of the Classic Games team, was known for an aggressive managerial style, for taking frequent trips out of the country during production and a tendency to give unrealistic deadlines. Miscommunication became a serious issue across the team, as did arguments over the scope and art style, according to people familiar with the matter. Bridenbecker, who left Blizzard in April, declined to comment.

...

The team, which had a reputation of taking on outcasts from other Blizzard departments, was restricted in hiring due to a limited budget. Some people had to do multiple jobs at once, working many nights and weekends to try to finish the game. Technological obstacles and conflicts among the team only exacerbated the problems. A mass layoff of nearly 800 people in February 2019 hollowed out Blizzard’s support departments, which also hurt the team. “We were missing and/or had the wrong people in certain lead roles," the postmortem said. "The team structure didn't set up the project for success."

Warcraft III: Reforged began gradually losing features. Management threw out the revised scripts and re-recordings the team had done, according to the people familiar with the process, choosing instead to stick with the original dialogue and voice acting.

...

The developers of the game blamed Bridenbecker and other executives. "Leadership seemed totally out of touch with the velocity and scope of the project until extremely late in development,” the team said in the postmortem. "Senior voices in the department warned leadership about the impending disaster of Warcraft on several occasions over the last year or so, but were ignored."

- Link

This was about Blizzard creating a dysfunctional team of developers who over promised and under delivered, who cut corners and removed features to try and make deadlines, which was enforced by upper management whose shitty business decisions forced the developers into a situation where they couldn't do anything but release the steaming pile of feces that was Warcraft 3: Reforged. What makes this whole thing worse is that this wasn't just a bad game, the release was actively destructive and ruined the niche community that still loved to play Warcraft 3 custom games. There is not a single positive thing to say about this situation and not a single reason to believe that Blizzard will make meaningful changes to help a community they've already destroyed.

It should also be noted that the only thing that was outsourced was the in-game assets, which were given to Lemon Sky Studios to remaster. The game itself was made by an internal Blizzard team.