Feedback on Classes in Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
The first Dragonflight Alpha test is upon us, and we’d like to take a moment to thank everyone who read and responded to the talent tree previews we posted in the WoW blog over the last few weeks.

Looking to the Alpha
In this first Alpha build, we’ll have Druids, Death Knights, Priests, Hunters, Rogues, and Evokers available and ready for feedback. We’re asking testers to initially keep several things in mind:

There are UI elements, such as specialization choice, which are works in progress.

Some talents do not function yet, and these are labeled with Not Yet Implemented (NYI).

There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.
For the classes that are not listed above, we’re still developing their talent trees, and they will be brought online in the coming weeks. The responses to our blog previews were highly valuable, as they allowed us to make some early improvements while we didn’t yet have a public test environment. Going forward, we aren’t planning to publish any additional Dragonflight talent previews in blog form, since we’ll add the remaining classes to the Alpha as soon as they reach their ready-to-test state. Our next class coming to the Dragonflight test environment will be Shaman.

In this Alpha build, you’ll see that testers can only swap talents and loadouts when in a rested area. This is a temporary measure, and our intention for talent and loadout swapping long-term, and for Dragonflight launch, is to allow it to be done without the need of being in a rested area or the use of items such as Inscription Tomes. Other restrictions will still apply, such as being out of combat, and not being in an active M+ or PvP match, but we want players to have the freedom to change their talents and loadouts at almost any time. We’re also planning to add a few seconds’ cast time between moving from one loadout to another, or between adjusting and respeccing existing talent trees.

Working from Feedback
We got some great feedback from our talent blog posts, and we want to share some of those points of feedback, as well as our current thoughts.

When comparing the talent system currently in Shadowlands and our revamped talent trees in Dragonflight, we’ve heard feedback that these trees might potentially be too complex or unapproachable for some players. As a result, we’re planning to include starter builds, which are default talent selections that players can opt into as a guide for players that do not want to heavily interact with the system. We’re also discussing using them as a default talent selection given when players log into Dragonflight for the first time. We’d like to make it so that players who are leveling up and do not wish to stop and select talents can simply opt into a starter build to track which talents they should take as they level up.

We’ve heard feedback regarding certain talents only working if you’ve selected other talents on the tree, or a talent not doing anything if you haven’t talented into the ability it augments. Initially, when we built our first trees (such as Druid and Death Knight), we were comfortable with players having to talent into multiple talents or requiring specific talents for other talents to work. As we’ve progressed in development, however, we’ve decided to remove many of those dependencies. There will still be a few occasional exceptions to this, but they should not be as prevalent as they were before. We plan to update many talent trees over the course of the Alpha to address this.
We also heard feedback that placing interrupts on the talent trees can be frustrating, due to the impact that these abilities have. While we do not yet have any changes to share, this is a topic that we’ve discussed internally and something we’ll keep a close eye on during Alpha playtesting.

There were a few comments regarding the placement of niche abilities such as Hibernate or Shackle Undead into the talent trees. One of our goals for these new talents trees is to allow players a wide variety of choices among abilities that are useful for different types of content, and we feel that talents like Hibernate or Shackle Undead exemplify this. Nonetheless, for this and all of the above, we’re taking this feedback into account as we work on further iterations of the talent trees.

Thank you

We greatly appreciate all of your feedback on our prototype trees, and we’re very excited for you to see everything else we’re working on. Thank you!

Feedback: Death Knights
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Hello Death Knights!

We’d like to kick things off here with a talk about some future plans for both the Core and Unholy Death Knight trees. While all specs can expect iteration as we navigate through alpha and beyond, this update will focus on the two trees mentioned.

Core Tree
In next week’s Alpha, you can expect to see an updated layout to the Core tree. In its current iteration, the tree feels a little too linear, with lower variance in customization as you progressed down one of the branches of the trees. To alleviate this, we’ve added connecting nodes to Blood’s branch from both the Frost and the Unholy sides of the core tree before the 1st gate, and one after the second gate. We’re also adding more nodes above the first gate, to add some more flexibility when picking up utility options.
We’re also doing some talent re-arrangements to fix dependency issues (preventing players from picking up talents with 0 value based on their prior picks). Here’s a work-in-progress picture that might give a better idea of what that means.


In the core tree, we’re going to move forward with some known bugs. While most things that aren’t actually working should be marked as NYI (Not Yet Implemented), we missed one with Empower Rune Weapon adding charges (for Frost). It’s currently not giving a charge if you learn it in both the Core and Frost tree. This will be fixed in a future alpha build.

Rune Strike is intended to only be available prior to choosing a spec. Each of the specs first talent choices should replace Rune Strike. This will be fixed in a future build.

Unholy
As we move into future builds, we want to tackle two main issues we’ve heard about from the community. The first is the issue of cooldown desyncs which is caused by a few different talents and some oddly timed base cooldowns. This will be our first priority. Secondly, after these changes make it to the alpha, we will want to tackle the overall structure of Unholy’s talent layout. The tree layout changing will take some time but we want to give an early heads up that we are actively looking at it and you can expect changes in the future.

Our initial goals with this include:
  • Update the cooldowns of Unholy to better sync with each other and prevent the dreaded desync issues the spec has seen. Generally we should expect 45/90/180 second cooldowns for Unholy.
  • Reduce the number of “RNG” mechanics the spec has to deal with.
  • Restructure the tree layout to include removing some talents, updating existing talents, and adding new talents. We’ll mention some of these changes below, but this will not be a comprehensive of all changes coming.

Some changes to expect in a future alpha build:
  • Deadly Coil: Reduces the Runic Power cost of Death Coil by 5/10.
    • This talent will be removed as a talent and wrapped into Death Coil baseline.
      • Developers’ notes: Deadly Coil has become quite important to how smooth the Unholy spec rotation feels and at this point is better served baseline than as a talent that can be opt-in or out of.
  • Unholy Command: Damage Dealt by Death Coil reduces the cooldown of Dark Transformation.
    • This talent will now read “Dark Transformation’s cooldown is reduced by 8/15 seconds.”
      • Developers’ notes: This should help Dark Transformation’s cooldown feel less RNG (or punishing for players who don’t manage Death Coil perfectly) and also align with the rest of their talents.
  • Infectious Wound: Festering Strike has a 20% increased chance of applying 1/2/3 additional Festering Wounds.
    • This talent will be cut or reworked.
      • Developers’ notes: While this talent may be repurposed rather than cut, we plan to cut the current randomness and rework it to provide a more consistent benefit, with the goal of better helping players play around the talent rather than hope it happens at the right moment.
  • Epidemic
    • Damage to be buffed.
      • Developers’ notes: With the new talent that allows Death Coil to cleave, the line on when to Epidemic and when not to Epidemic has been widened. This is not ideal. With the changes to Unholy Command and the damage increase to Epidemic, this should help cement Epidemic’s position at ~4 targets.
  • Army of the Damned: Death Coil reduces the cooldown of Apocalypse by 1 second and Army of the Dead by 5 seconds (and summons a Magus of the Dead).
    • This will be updated to reduce the cooldown of Apocalypse by a flat 45 seconds (and no longer be reduced by Death Coil/Epidemic).
      • Developers’ notes: This change will smooth out the cooldowns of Unholy to match our initial 45/90/180 sec cooldown windows. We are considering what to do with the Army of the Dead portion of the talent. Having the mastery of maximizing you’re your Death Coil casts to give you a chance at another Army of the Dead in an encounter feels like a great skill and mechanical hook for the talent while not completely harming your rotational impact the way Apocalypse did.
  • Summon Gargoyle
    • Developers’ notes: Currently, Summon Gargoyle does not feel like it rises to a capstone talent, and we have a few ideas in mind to better to solve that. First we plan to buff Gargoyle to better perform and shine in single target scenarios and also move it higher into the tree to be a little more accessible when the situation calls for its need. Secondly, we want to introduce a new and more powerful ability in this capstone position. As an example, “Dark Transformation empowers your Gargoyle and Army of the Dead for 20 seconds, increasing their damage by 50%." A talent such as this does a better job of “capping” a build that heavily focuses on Dark Transformation and your pets.
  • Tree Structure
    • The current tree has a few less than ideal dependency issues that we are looking to solve to prevent “trap” talent builds where we can.
    • The tree could also be a little more connected to allow for a bit more flexibility as you spec out your Unholy DK. As an example, Clawing Shadows’ current positioning feels a bit too restrictive at the moment.
Thank you all for the ongoing feedback! It’s greatly appreciated, and we look forward to more as we iterate throughout the testing period.

500 Mount Collection Achievement Reward
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Finally after 4 years and 2 expansions a new achievement for 500 mounts… However, that model… A Yeti… Also 4 years for a new achievement, Collectors need goals and providing a new achievement that’ll be just awarded once it’s introduced
Yep, we agree. The yeti will be changed to a different mount (not a yeti) in a future alpha build, though not necessarily the next one. Feedback like this is always useful, and please take this as a reminder that things you see in alpha builds are subject to change.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dragonflight Class Feedback, Death Knight Talents, 500 Mount Reward TBD started by chaud View original post
Comments 6 Comments
  1. Chickat's Avatar
    I dont play DK often but these seem like solid changes IMO. The 500 mount change is also good.
  1. MasterHamster's Avatar
    "When comparing the talent system currently in Shadowlands and our revamped talent trees in Dragonflight, we’ve heard feedback that these trees might potentially be too complex or unapproachable for some players."

    If you make a system brainless for years then try to add some kind of actual complexity, one would expect some brainless players may indeed find it complex.
    You know you've dumbed your game down beyond all recognition when you can't even expect your playerbase to be able to read anymore. No, they just throw temper tantrums if they don't know for certain they're optimized from the go.
  1. pinglong's Avatar
    Getting rid of Festering wounds would be big. Never been a fan of them and it makes using Tellmewhen/Weakaura's mandatory for the rotation to do it optimally. Hell even optimally pulling off the rotation UHDK usually isn't top DPS.
  1. heltvild's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    "When comparing the talent system currently in Shadowlands and our revamped talent trees in Dragonflight, we’ve heard feedback that these trees might potentially be too complex or unapproachable for some players."

    If you make a system brainless for years then try to add some kind of actual complexity, one would expect some brainless players may indeed find it complex.
    You know you've dumbed your game down beyond all recognition when you can't even expect your playerbase to be able to read anymore. No, they just throw temper tantrums if they don't know for certain they're optimized from the go.
    Just goes to show at what level majority of WoW players is at the moment, but as you say the playerbase has been conditioned to being dumb for many many years no so its no suprise they would feel like this. It would be like Path of Exile players complaining about the passive tree being too complex, reality is both of PoE and current WoW 99% of the players just copy paste from guides anyways so why does it matter if its more complex to them. At least they should keep the "complexity" to give more creativity/freedom to the people that actually care, as everyone will just copy paste it anyway.
  1. Djaye's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    "When comparing the talent system currently in Shadowlands and our revamped talent trees in Dragonflight, we’ve heard feedback that these trees might potentially be too complex or unapproachable for some players."

    If you make a system brainless for years then try to add some kind of actual complexity, one would expect some brainless players may indeed find it complex.
    You know you've dumbed your game down beyond all recognition when you can't even expect your playerbase to be able to read anymore. No, they just throw temper tantrums if they don't know for certain they're optimized from the go.
    nail on head

    been playing with the talent calculator on wowhead. they are actually very well done so far imo.
    while PvE looks to have several cookie cutter 'best' load outs. for pvp? its amazing
    my hunter can avoid useless talents completely(misdirect, distracting shot) in pvp and actually focus more on utility and movement.
    can go full pet focus and juice yourself out, or avoid your pet completely.
    i look forward to seeing the balancing and placement movement changes, as im sure some will move around.
    but just getting back to more classic rpg systems is very nice to see and play with.
    always hated their 6 choices model (even though it is technically baked into the new system) that locked you out of so many abilities.
    this combined with such a expansive profession system are looking amazing right now imo.
    button bloat will be back, and im all for it.

    they could also create an 'auto spec' feature for people this simple in system comprehension, that simply generates a basic and simple load out for your chosen spec.

    dont kill peoples fun cuz some people are slow
  1. Zoic's Avatar
    Is there any chance there will be a 600 mount achievement? I love collecting mounts and currently have around 595 total mounts. I remember how proud I was getting the 300 mount achievement.

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