Dragonflight Beta - Upcoming Changes to Rogue Talent Trees
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Hello Rogues,

Last we spoke, we talked about some upcoming changes to the Rogue class tree, and one of the immediate and echoed points of feedback was comparison and concern regarding pathing and connectivity for the class tree as presented and also for current spec trees.

While the Rogue trees are not and will not be exactly like those of any one other class, we’d like to share how your feedback has helped continue to shape the Rogue trees up to current. We’ve added connections we believe help create more flexibility and creative opportunity within the trees, while avoiding undermining the intended costing of deeper tree sections. Please keep in mind that: 1) Changes happen iteratively, which means some of what you see will be present in this week’s PTR and Beta builds, while other changes will not be in a public build until next week, and 2) As always, anything and everything is subject to change - it is Beta, after all.

Okay, with that preamble out of the way, let’s take a look at the current structure of each Rogue tree:



Beyond the pathing changes and connections seen above, there are a few details I’d like to note:
  • Leeching Poison now works with any Lethal poison
  • Deeper Stratagem once again increases finisher damage by 5% in addition to its existing effect
  • Shadow Dance base duration has been reduced to 6 seconds and no longer has a base flat damage increase (Subtlety will be compensated through a mix of baseline changes, talents, and tuning)
  • Thistle Tea grants Mastery (example: 17% as Assassination) for 6 sec, in addition to its current effect



There are many new connections and pathing opportunities in the Assassination tree. While not many individual talents have significantly changed for Assassination, Cut to the Chase is now a 1-point talent and extends Slice and Dice by 3 sec per combo point spent, and Internal Bleeding is also now a 1-point talent for the same total effect.



Outlaw has quite a few connections created in the top and side portions of the tree. As an individual talent change, Heavy Hitter (previously NYI) design has changed, now granting 10% increased damage to all abilities that generate combo points.



Subtlety has seen perhaps the most significant total change to its talent tree structure (as displayed) and its individual talents.

Two skills have returned to Subtlety’s level-learned baseline: Shadow Dance and Symbols of Death. While a handful of talents have moved, new talents have taken their places: Improved Shadow Dance increases the duration of Shadow Dance by [2 sec/4 sec], and Swift Death reduces the cooldown of Symbols of Death by 5 sec.

Alongside the previous post’s Danse Macabre, we hope the total changes to the Subtlety tree (and other Rogue trees) will provide more flexible talent options, meaningful choices, and fun gameplay opportunities.

Thank you for your continued feedback. We look forward to hearing about more of your experiences on the PTR and Beta, especially across the next two week’s builds as more and more Rogue talents get fully implemented. Cheers.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Dragonflight Beta - Upcoming Changes to Rogue Talent Trees started by Lumy View original post
Comments 8 Comments
  1. bloodmoth13's Avatar
    They need to take the utility out of the spec trees and I hope they lowered all the 3pt talents
  1. yuyang1shi's Avatar
    u can't do it without scolding? No, in fact, the rogue designers are more subborn than u expected.
    They heared all kinds of good suggestion, but still refuse to change it.
    in Outlaw Spec tree, "the garbage big 4"([combat stamina], [Riposte], [triple threaten], [improved main gauche]) still there,
    and all of them are unaviodable. (u can't jump them)
  1. Saiboter's Avatar
    I don't get it.
    I'm still confused about the duplicate talents.
    Why is Shadowstep and Shadow Dance split into both trees?
    Do the players really want that?
    I play Sub and I don't like Shadow Dance. I'd love to have a build without it.
    So most of the players want Shadow Dance in every spec?
  1. diller's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiboter View Post
    I play Sub and I don't like Shadow Dance. I'd love to have a build without it.
    So most of the players want Shadow Dance in every spec?
    While I agree, there is no change it's a core skill of Sub and right now you can't chose not to have it either.
  1. Twdft's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Saiboter View Post
    I don't get it.
    I'm still confused about the duplicate talents.
    Shiv is baseline rogue, you should always have it.
    Second row assassination is improved Shiv. That's nice.
    Fourth row assassination is fucking Shiv again. Why do I have to spend a point in it?

    You can make a loadout without Shiv, and can use it.
    Then make a loadout with Shiv, still can use it.
    Change back to the first loadout without Shiv and you can not use the baseline Shiv anymore. Now I know why I have to spend the point. I would like someone at Blizzard explain this to me. But I guess noone actually plays rogue there.
  1. Bullet1519's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Shiv is baseline rogue, you should always have it.
    Second row assassination is improved Shiv. That's nice.
    Fourth row assassination is fucking Shiv again. Why do I have to spend a point in it?

    You can make a loadout without Shiv, and can use it.
    Then make a loadout with Shiv, still can use it.
    Change back to the first loadout without Shiv and you can not use the baseline Shiv anymore. Now I know why I have to spend the point. I would like someone at Blizzard explain this to me. But I guess noone actually plays rogue there.
    Second pick ups give an additional charge but it's not working yet. So asass gets two charges of shiv. Sub gets two charges of dance and both sub and asass can get two charges of shadowstep
  1. Stabhar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by yuyang1shi View Post
    u can't do it without scolding? No, in fact, the rogue designers are more subborn than u expected.
    They heared all kinds of good suggestion, but still refuse to change it.
    in Outlaw Spec tree, "the garbage big 4"([combat stamina], [Riposte], [triple threaten], [improved main gauche]) still there,
    and all of them are unaviodable. (u can't jump them)
    Combat Stamina and Riposte can be avoided though, what do you mean? Triple Threat and Imp Main Gauche are still unavoidable, yes, but the other 2 can be avoided.
  1. yuyang1shi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabhar View Post
    Combat Stamina and Riposte can be avoided though, what do you mean? Triple Threat and Imp Main Gauche are still unavoidable, yes, but the other 2 can be avoided.
    the another option for Stamina and Riposte are even more worse. Essentially, u just can't aviod them.

    These 2(Stamina and Riposte) are basic skill, should be put in Class Tree, insetad of Spec Tree to take 2 very limited/luxury point.
    (compare with Assass\Sub and other class spec Tree, there is almost no such talent which is totally irrelevant with damage)

    about Triple Threat and Main Gauche.
    first, for Main Gauche, I admit the idea is cool. but put it here, and take 2 point, it's insane!
    if Main Gauche to replace [Riposte] with only 1 point, then the design is great.

    for Triple Threat, in whole patch 9.0, no outlaw rogue really use it. never mind it took 2 point now
    use it to replace [stamina] with only 1 point, is great.

    Someone will ask, if like u said, take 2 talent and replace 2, outlaw tree will lack of talents.
    But don't forget there a lot of talent/legendary.

    1\Like MOP's [call the canon], it can put with [blade rush], let play choose one of them.

    2\Like [Green/Yellow/Red legendary](i don't know the English name), it's a Rogue traditional talent.
    and a powerful one in WLK stage. Since WLK lauched, Spec tree back, it's a good time to put it in outlaw Spec Tree.
    (generally, use this to replace almost useless [Triple Threat], it's very smart, player will thanks for it)

    3\Like [Vanish legendary](vanish can reduce all skills cd 20 second), now it in sub spec tree.
    but just 2 month ago, the [vanish legendary] as good as pistal legendary.
    is only two playable choice for outlaw rogue in 9.25. (i use it to get 3,000 score in M+)
    (but now, the dev just put it in Sub tree......)

Site Navigation