Wrath Classic PTR - Testing a Death Knight Gargoyle Adjustment
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’ve just pushed a hotfix to the Wrath Classic PTR that will adjust to how the Summon Gargoyle spell inherits Haste from the Death Knight.

To help explain this adjustment and why we feel it’s needed, let’s take a quick look at how the Gargoyle currently functions.

Currently, a Gargoyle inherits the Haste and Attack Power stats from the Death Knight controlling it. One of the things that makes the Gargoyle particularly strong is that, for its entire duration, the Summon Gargoyle spell uses whatever Haste and Attack Power values the Death Knight has at the instant it’s cast. This is referred to as “snapshotting”, and savvy Death Knights who know to maximize their Haste and Attack power statistics via buffs, consumables, spell procs, and items can create a scenario where the Gargoyle benefits from massive gains to Haste and Attack Power for the entire duration of the spell. Some of these effects may only last a few seconds on the Death Knight, but it’s possible for players to snapshot over 370% Haste (and well over 400% for DKs who are also Trolls using Berserking) which reduces the cast time of Gargoyle Strike from 2 seconds all the way down to around 0.35 seconds for every cast while the Gargoyle is summoned.

The change we are testing will cause the cast time reduction on Gargoyle strike to be re-evaluated every time it is cast during the Summon Gargoyle duration based on the Death Knight’s current Haste, not the Haste value at the time of the initial spell cast. This change will not affect Attack Power.

We don’t make changes like this lightly, and indeed, we hoped not to make any changes like this one in Wrath Classic. However, the current data we have demonstrates that if left untouched, Death Knights stand to scale up significantly more than any other DPS class in the game for the remainder of Wrath of the Lich King Classic. Players have picked up on this of course, and the class is already starting to become over-represented in many raid groups across a variety of skill levels. As time goes by and more power is acquired, the more that groups will likely push to stack the class further.

Even after this change, we expect that Death Knights will still be producing the highest overall DPS in the game, but we hope that this will help curtail future scaling issues. We will be watching DK performance closely in the coming days and will make additional adjustments if we feel that this change ends up going too far.

We want to make it clear that we are not planning any further adjustments to any other classes for patch 3.4.1. We feel the class representation in raids is in a fairly good place right now across all classes, and we have no plans or desire for any further tuning adjustments. An adjustment like this one is for the sole purpose of preventing a specific class from becoming dramatically over or under-represented. We stated before that we will use the patch 3.3.5 class balance, with as few adjustments as possible, and we intend to stick to that.

Thank you all and we hope to see you over the weekend in Ulduar with us! Happy new year!
This article was originally published in forum thread: Wrath Classic PTR - Testing a Death Knight Gargoyle Adjustment started by Lumy View original post
Comments 16 Comments
  1. Sting's Avatar
    However, the current data we have demonstrates that if left untouched, Death Knights stand to scale up significantly more than any other DPS class in the game for the remainder of Wrath of the Lich King Classic.
    Funny, my guild is centered around parsing and we mostly expected unholy DK to fall off a cliff near the end of Ulduar. The current snapshotting behaviour gets a gigantic payoff from sources that would stay unchanged throughout the expansion, such as bloodlust, haste pots, meta gem and trinket procs. The actual rating on your gear, while still a factor, is only a small part of the haste snapshot. On top of that, as fights get longer, UH dps already drops off significantly since it's mostly based around the gargoyle snapshot.

    Other classes who crutch less on snapshots like this stand to gain a far bigger benefit from increased stats on gear and longer execute phases and would've overtaken the UH DK anyway.
  1. Zeek Daniels's Avatar
    terrible change and ive never played unholy. U think people didnt know about snapshotting in wrath? of course they did. Just let it be blizz.
  1. digitalphreak's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    terrible change and ive never played unholy. U think people didnt know about snapshotting in wrath? of course they did. Just let it be blizz.
    Terrible change but you don't play. Please stfu. This is a welcomed change by anyone in PvP who doesn't play a DK. Its fucking stupid that such a huge amount of damage comes from a pet you don't control and scales the way it does.
  1. prwraith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphreak View Post
    Terrible change but you don't play. Please stfu. This is a welcomed change by anyone in PvP who doesn't play a DK. Its fucking stupid that such a huge amount of damage comes from a pet you don't control and scales the way it does.
    PvP in WoW? c'mon bruh that's a meme
  1. Zeek Daniels's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphreak View Post
    Terrible change but you don't play. Please stfu. This is a welcomed change by anyone in PvP who doesn't play a DK. Its fucking stupid that such a huge amount of damage comes from a pet you don't control and scales the way it does.
    it lasted an entire expansion. Get over it.

    Also their post makes zero mention of pvp being a factor in their decision making. Said it was about raid representation. so cry more. Dont change it blizz.
  1. SinR's Avatar
    ITT: FOTM Rerolls
  1. Felrane's Avatar
    Good change. Im sure lots of DK players are going to rage. I wish they would have done this in Vanilla Classic as well to curb stomp all the mages and warriors.
  1. Konteil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphreak View Post
    Terrible change but you don't play. Please stfu. This is a welcomed change by anyone in PvP who doesn't play a DK. Its fucking stupid that such a huge amount of damage comes from a pet you don't control and scales the way it does.
    of course they knew about snapshotting but this particular issue comes from something that was added in MOP and was missed when they cut code to scale back to wrath. so this issue never actually existed there. there was no way to get attacks down below 1.5 seconds on a pet prior to the cap being removed in MOP for all pet classes. they missed it when they redid the code on DK. now they fixed it. yes i played wrath yes i played UH DK and this was never a thing then. does it suck ...yes does it ultimately matter? no dk will still be top dps throughout wrath. that and warlock.
  1. Druzark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    it lasted an entire expansion. Get over it.

    Also their post makes zero mention of pvp being a factor in their decision making. Said it was about raid representation. so cry more. Dont change it blizz.
    You're a special kind of glue eater if you think this was part of OG wrath.
  1. jackofwind's Avatar
    I main DK and am happy with the change. UH was meme-tier gameplay to such a degree that unless you played it you'll never understand.
  1. schwank05's Avatar
    I have been playing Scourge Strike 2H Unholy since Day 1 Wotlk and don't mind the change so much, I just hope the whole DW Meme Morb spec dies, I still pull more DPS than some of the Morb meme bois so I will stick to real Unholy.
  1. SinR's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I have been playing Scourge Strike 2H Unholy since Day 1 Wotlk and don't mind the change so much, I just hope the whole DW Meme Morb spec dies, I still pull more DPS than some of the Morb meme bois so I will stick to real Unholy.
    There was a GM on Pagle that denied a Pug Unholy DK BoH after they rolled high because "Unholy doesn't use 2h"

    I logged to my Paladin that was in the same guild, said "2h Unholy is a thing" and got GKicked no questions. I regret nothing.
  1. TbouncerT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    it lasted an entire expansion. Get over it.

    Also their post makes zero mention of pvp being a factor in their decision making. Said it was about raid representation. so cry more. Dont change it blizz.
    Clearly, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you don't play anymore. you're just here to troll, pretty sad.
  1. schwank05's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    There was a GM on Pagle that denied a Pug Unholy DK BoH after they rolled high because "Unholy doesn't use 2h"

    I logged to my Paladin that was in the same guild, said "2h Unholy is a thing" and got GKicked no questions. I regret nothing.
    I tried DW for SS for 2 weeks I did 300 more DPS then I got my Jawbone which sims higher than Betrayer because of the Damage speed and no Strength. but now I pull with 2H SS what I should according to sims in the stupid Morbidity Meme spec. I tried Morb for a week and it was awful. Ill stick with my 2H and do just fine out dpsing people chasing logs.
  1. Hctaz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Good change. Im sure lots of DK players are going to rage. I wish they would have done this in Vanilla Classic as well to curb stomp all the mages and warriors.
    Done... what? Remove snapshotting? The key component to every good warrior and mage from Vanilla as we all know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felrane View Post
    Good change. Im sure lots of DK players are going to rage. I wish they would have done this in Vanilla Classic as well to curb stomp all the mages and warriors.
    I mean... I've been playing Frost DK this whole time already. Not really raging.

    Frost is one of the best consistent DPS specs- at least from what I've seen. Any time a fight goes on for longer than like 2 minutes, I usually end up being either 1st or 2nd on the meters. Is that anecdotal? Sure, but I also think Thaddius is a great example of a longer boss fight that we all experience. The absolute fastest kill time on that boss in the last two weeks was 2:56 which is pretty much more than double the speed of other fights in the raid instance.

    My guess is you can probably look at that boss as a pretty decent example of what you can expect DPS to be after Ulduar comes out with slight discrepancies due to gear possibly scaling other specs better than it does Frost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Druzark View Post
    You're a special kind of glue eater if you think this was part of OG wrath.
    It... was though? I don't understand your point. Just because DKs didn't know how to snapshot back then didn't mean that isn't how it worked back then.
  1. Necrotyk's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I have been playing Scourge Strike 2H Unholy since Day 1 Wotlk and don't mind the change so much, I just hope the whole DW Meme Morb spec dies, I still pull more DPS than some of the Morb meme bois so I will stick to real Unholy.
    Yeah this makes zero sense. You objectively will never be doing more DPS than someone playing Morb correctly. Stop memeing with that Scourge Strike crap.

    Morb is best. Hush

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