In Development: Fractures in Time

Originally Posted by Ssateneth

This is probably a response to woke culture. you get to be something that biologically wouldn't make sense! IRL events/politics do not belong in video games.

Or, y'know

Its a response to rogues and priests for everyone being widely accepted, along with all of those requests out there to add every class to every race

Given they did specifically give reasons for rogues and priests, like the Draenei space pirates and that little side bit on the orc heritage quest with the last Shadowmoon, there'll probably be similar explanations

Originally Posted by Xilurm

Things should make sense according to the rules/laws of the universe the devs/writers have created though. It's how consistency is kept. Otherwise everything would be a ball of mess.

While that's true in principle, in practice things change and evolve over time. Rules/laws that were written one way can AND SHOULD be written another way if it facilitates a better playing experience. This is a game, not a novel - what matters above all else is the gameplay. That doesn't mean lore etc. are irrelevant, far from it; but it shouldn't stand in the way of gameplay when it comes to really minor stuff like this. It's not like we're suddenly getting a Call of Duty class with machine guns or Overwatch characters are starting to show up or whatever - those would be major breaches. Opening up races to classes really isn't that. If anything, it ENHANCES the roleplaying potential, because now you can express yourself even better as a player - and without really adding or taking away anything that wasn't in the game already, just shifting pairings around.

Sure it'll upset some lore people and whatnot - but that's okay. There's larger things at stake. Remember when NElf mages became a thing and people complained because it was such a "major part" of NElf lore that they foreswore all arcane magic? Well, look at that - the world (of Warcraft) is still intact, and nobody goes "OMG is that a NIGHT ELF mage crossing my path in Stormwind here? I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, now my IMMERSION IS RUINED and I will QUIT THE GAME ON THE SPOT how DARE THEY!" and never has.

This'll be just fine.

Man, people with "Deranged Fear of Wokeness" are getting tiresome.

Originally Posted by fatgunn

I mean is not even they don't want to. It just takes time. They've said they're gonna slowly add new combos during patches as the assets get done.

I am fine with that.

It might be the final straw that destroys Wow's cohesive artstyle and turn it into a bland looking asian mmo, tho.

Originally Posted by Mecheon

Or, y'know

Its a response to rogues and priests for everyone being widely accepted, along with all of those requests out there to add every class to every race

Given they did specifically give reasons for rogues and priests, like the Draenei space pirates and that little side bit on the orc heritage quest with the last Shadowmoon, there'll probably be similar explanations

warlocks get an entire questline teaching the other races to be warlocks.

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Originally Posted by NoiseTank13

Man, people with "Deranged Fear of Wokeness" are getting tiresome.

Literally everything is "wokeness" at this point, like how the hell is adding classes to every race "wokeness" like what?

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Originally Posted by Fistfighter

I am fine with that.

It might be the final straw that destroys Wow's cohesive artstyle and turn it into a bland looking asian mmo, tho.

how does them adding more classes to the races destroy the artstyle? what are you on about? this is not them making the game look hyper realistic, and funnily enough asian mmo's usually have MORE locks between race/class combos, even to the point they have gender locks, like lost ark where some classes have to be female others male.

Originally Posted by FelPlague

how does them adding more classes to the races destroy the artstyle? what are you on about? this is not them making the game look hyper realistic, and funnily enough asian mmo's usually have MORE locks between race/class combos, even to the point they have gender locks, like lost ark where some classes have to be female others male.

More options create less streamlined and cohesive artstyle.
Look at Dracthyr customisations (or all the other new dragonflight customisation options on old races), there's a lot of options to make your character look good. Or jarringly out of place, if you combine different vibrant colors that do not match.

Same goes for race/class choices. Keeping some classes locked behind certain races streamlines and curates the look of the game.
Lightforge Warlock, for example, does clash not only because of lore reasons (irrelavant here), but also for a cohesive aesthetic reason. The Light details clashing with the shadow theme.

That's why I used eastern MMO's as an example, their character artstyle direction often lacks uniformity, and the general look and feel is "anything goes".


Personally, I am not saying this is a catastrophically bad choice, because I do enjoy having more options to choose from, but I do believe there are dimishing returns on this kinda stuff. There is a point of "too many" options, where it actively hinders the visual experience.

1st support spec ? ;o

Lightforged warlocks is a weird one, but it's clear they're looking to expand all classes to all races in waves and just do away with those restrictions. Even faction restrictions are being loosened.

All the remaining class/race combos have issues that will take longer due to having unique race-based assets like mounts, totems, druid forms, metamorphosis, etc.

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Originally Posted by Fistfighter

Lightforge Warlock, for example, does clash not only because of lore reasons (irrelavant here), but also for a cohesive aesthetic reason. The Light details clashing with the shadow theme.

IMO this has always been an issue with warlocks. I've even always felt like Forsaken warlock clashed because Death is a completely different force of magic from Fel; the only justification for it is that they're both "dark" or "evil." Even so, Forsaken warlock was used as one of the marquee class/race combos in their first two cinematics.

So, to me, Light + Fel isn't inherently more out of place than Death + Fel or Life + Fel. A few Lightforged falling to the corruption of the demons they fight isn't that weird. If Lothraxion can become redeemed, a Lightforged should be able to become corrupted.

And it will probably not be a popular class/race combination anyway, so how often are you even going to encounter them?


That said, I wish they would put more effort into adding class-based customization options to races, or racial flavor to classes. Even now there is a major lack of Sunwalker flavor for paladins, for example. Warlocks should be able to get horns and glowing eyes.

It would be nice if the maybe actually did a questline to show us how a Lightforged becomes a warlock, you know? Maybe they are using the Light to force demons to serve them. Maybe they are trying to Lightforge demons, like Lothraxion. What if they add Lightforged customization options for the demon minions inspired by Lothraxion? There are ideas that can work. Lot of work for what will be a small niche of players though.

I guess this new questline that awards the new imp appearance is going to show how other races are learning to become warlocks, so hopefully it does a decent job justifying it. From a player POV any weird niche can be justified with a bit of creative storytelling.

Originally Posted by Kathranis

IMO this has always been an issue with warlocks. I've even always felt like Forsaken warlock clashed because Death is a completely different force of magic from Fel; the only justification for it is that they're both "dark" or "evil." Even so, Forsaken warlock was used as one of the marquee class/race combos in their first two cinematics.

That's an absolutely baffling opinion.
Warlocks and Forsaken have the exact same visual theme.
There isn't better class+race combo than matches so well, actually.

Death and Shadow are the same themes. I don't care that the deep lore says they are different cosmic forces, thematically they are the same.

Looks like an epic showdown with iridikron while he's busy harvesting whatever from the corpse of galakrond. Atleast that's what I expect.

They're really sick of the meters dictating the game so here's a curve-ball support dps spec to get players focusing on friendship and cool boss fights once again.

when undead paladin

Originally Posted by Fistfighter

That's an absolutely baffling opinion.
Warlocks and Forsaken have the exact same visual theme.
There isn't better class+race combo than matches so well, actually.

Death and Shadow are the same themes. I don't care that the deep lore says they are different cosmic forces, thematically they are the same.

Affliction works, sure. But green fire and demons versus Forsaken themes which are decay and rot and skeletons? Not really the same thematically, to me.

If there were a necromancer class, that would be perfect for Forsaken.

Originally Posted by Kathranis

Affliction works, sure. But green fire and demons versus Forsaken themes which are decay and rot and skeletons? Not really the same thematically, to me.

If there were a necromancer class, that would be perfect for Forsaken.

You realize the very first cinematic WoW trailer featured a Forsaken warlock summoning an infernal to fight a Human mage, right?

If anything, warlock is the most iconic Forsaken class.

Originally Posted by rarhyx

when undead paladin

They should scream every time they use an ability. Just constant pain.

Originally Posted by Unlimited Power

You realize the very first cinematic WoW trailer featured a Forsaken warlock summoning an infernal to fight a Human mage, right?

If anything, warlock is the most iconic Forsaken class.

I flat out said that they used that class combination in the first two cinematic trailers in my first post, and that a zombie summoning a big green fire rock monster was still always weird to me.

Originally Posted by mysticx

Yeah, those RL warlocks are a total plague…

Stop making every change in the game about politics and the woke-boogyman, Blizz just want to attract/keep players and sell a bunch of race-changes/level boosts, nothing more.

In the process completely destroying lore. They completely cave to player entitlement sacrificing lore.

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Originally Posted by Biomega

While that's true in principle, in practice things change and evolve over time. Rules/laws that were written one way can AND SHOULD be written another way if it facilitates a better playing experience. This is a game, not a novel - what matters above all else is the gameplay. That doesn't mean lore etc. are irrelevant, far from it; but it shouldn't stand in the way of gameplay when it comes to really minor stuff like this. It's not like we're suddenly getting a Call of Duty class with machine guns or Overwatch characters are starting to show up or whatever - those would be major breaches. Opening up races to classes really isn't that. If anything, it ENHANCES the roleplaying potential, because now you can express yourself even better as a player - and without really adding or taking away anything that wasn't in the game already, just shifting pairings around.

Sure it'll upset some lore people and whatnot - but that's okay. There's larger things at stake. Remember when NElf mages became a thing and people complained because it was such a "major part" of NElf lore that they foreswore all arcane magic? Well, look at that - the world (of Warcraft) is still intact, and nobody goes "OMG is that a NIGHT ELF mage crossing my path in Stormwind here? I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, now my IMMERSION IS RUINED and I will QUIT THE GAME ON THE SPOT how DARE THEY!" and never has.

This'll be just fine.

They are making lore irrelevant becuase they are just doing thing to do them. They might as well just make everyone look the same and give everyone the same abilioties since they want to homogenize so bad.

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Originally Posted by NoiseTank13

Man, people with "Deranged Fear of Wokeness" are getting tiresome.

Not nearly as tiresome as people complaining about it to feel morally superior and act like their opinion is fact and everyoen else is wrong.

Originally Posted by rrayy

Not nearly as tiresome as people complaining about it to feel morally superior and act like their opinion is fact and everyoen else is wrong.

'Complaining about people complaining LOL' is not an own, dude.

Originally Posted by rrayy

In the process completely destroying lore. They completely cave to player entitlement sacrificing lore.

Were players even asking for this?

If I recall, Blizzard just started opening up class/race comboes on a whim, and made statements about wanting to do this to all classes eventually. I haven't really heard any demand for all race/class comboes otherwise.

Originally Posted by rrayy

They are making lore irrelevant becuase they are just doing thing to do them. They might as well just make everyone look the same and give everyone the same abilioties since they want to homogenize so bad.

That's just meaningless hyperbole. Just because they're equalizing SOME things doesn't mean they're equalizing EVERYTHING. Nonsense.

Originally Posted by Biomega

That's just meaningless hyperbole. Just because they're equalizing SOME things doesn't mean they're equalizing EVERYTHING. Nonsense.

Where does it stop? Now it is this one thing. But you can be sure it will happen again and again just to make a vocal minority happy. That is the direction they are headed.

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Originally Posted by NoiseTank13

'Complaining about people complaining LOL' is not an own, dude.

It's true. You declaring otherwise doesn't mean youare right. People who complain about the complainers is tiresome.