Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Greetings.

We want to take a moment to talk about WoW Token in Wrath of the Lich King Classic.

The best way to start is to simply say that this wasn’t something we arrived at lightly. For the entirety of Classic so far, the WoW Classic team has been very resistant to the idea of adding WoW Token to any form of Classic in the Western regions (NA and EU). When WoW Classic started in 2019, adding something like token felt unimaginable to us, and that continued to be true for us–even late into Burning Crusade Classic–for a few reasons:

  • In Vanilla WoW, the scarcity of gold is a major factor in how you approach your journey in Azeroth. From saving to get your first mount at 40, to picking and choosing which skills you wanted to learn while leveling so you could afford a new weapon or piece of armor. Later on at level 60, some form of time investment is needed to “maintain” a character in an ecosystem where flasks, resistance potions, and elixirs are such a major part of the game, and resources are scarce and highly contested. This was true all the way through Burning Crusade, where potions and flasks could represent a significant weekly expense and the resources required to make them were still quite difficult to obtain.
  • It just didn’t feel “Classic”. It felt jarring, out of place, and was antithetical to what most of us wanted to relive about those early years of WoW.

However, what we want to do from a design perspective and what we need to do for the good of the community aren’t always aligned, and this is one of the more difficult things about maintaining a large online game like Wrath Classic. When we really looked at the state of things in Wrath Classic, and how different players approach the game, we saw that we cannot cause the demand for gold to be lower. The impact of illicit RMT is beyond just buying gold; it’s the entire black market that revolves around gold sales. The concept of bots gets thrown around a lot, but it’s not just “bots” that fuel this, it’s compromised accounts, credit card fraud, scams, hacked clients, and the tools that illicit third parties use to fuel the engine that is the RMT trade.

We hear folks say things like “just ban the bots” a lot. We ban tens of thousands of bots a week. It’s not visible to you just how much we do, and that is absolutely another problem in itself; we need to be better at surfacing these actions (more on this later). The truth is we’ve never been better and more effective at identifying and actioning malicious accounts, and our Game Security Operations (GSO) team that handle these actions are iterating and innovating on a nearly daily basis.

Unfortunately, in the history of WoW, the people perpetrating this illicit trade have also never been better at coming up with new methods, schemes, farms, and exploits to work around our efforts. As much engineering and analytics effort as we put into this, illicit RMT “workshops” put the same amount in, or more, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of these workshops out there all working around the clock to develop new technologies and techniques to counter our new technologies and techniques. It’s an arms race, and it never, ever ends.

We will never completely beat “bots” or illicit RMT. It’s an unwinnable war as long as there is money to be made by third parties. The ubiquitous nature of this type of thing in online games is an objective fact. It has always been a part of WoW, and every other popular online game for the past 25 years, and it will always be a part of online games going forward. It’s frustrating to fight this fight, but we will not stop fighting it.

While we can’t completely “win” the war, what we can do is mitigate the impact it has on the game. Is WoW Token the be-all and end-all to solve this? No, but it is a tool. It’s just one tool, though, among many. There is clearly a demand for gold for certain types of players, and that demand is only increasing. So, we are engaging a tool that we’ve used before to help mitigate the impact that illicit RMT has on the game. The more tools we employ, and the less lucrative we can make it for third parties to do what they do to make a profit, the less likely it is that new malicious actors enter the illicit RMT scene, and the more likely that existing malicious actors will exit the business. Ultimately, it’s taking incremental steps and using a multitude of tools that will reduce how impactful those third parties will be in Wrath Classic and beyond.

Wrath Design and the “Value” of Gold

Circling back to what was mentioned earlier about why WoW Token feels like a tool we should deploy now, we have to look at the base design of Wrath of the Lich King. Ultimately, this is what convinced us to reconsider WoW Token after resisting and refusing this path for so long. In Wrath Classic, your normal weekly activities are, for the most part, self-sustaining. Buying potions, flasks, reagents, and other normal necessities of endgame can be subsidized entirely by mostly just playing the game normally. Doing your usual weekly raid, a few dungeons, or a few dailies a week will net even the most fervent and well-prepared characters more gold than they would need to maintain themselves. Simply put, gold is more plentiful, and the base design of Wrath minimized the focus on needing to “farm” to support normal play.

When we considered that, we realized that the introduction of token wouldn’t be a temptation for most regular players to buy to help support their usual everyday gameplay. It’s simply not impactful to the average player who logs in, raids a few days a week with their guild, does a few dungeons and dailies, and then plays other games in between those activities. There’s no friction in that player’s experience that would tempt them to buy a token just to keep themselves afloat.

Better Visibility into Exploitative Account Actions

As mentioned earlier, we need to improve the visibility around what we do. We posted some weeks ago that we banned over 120,000 malicious accounts in World of Warcraft alone in a large wave, but those large waves that we talk about are actually a very small portion of the overall actions we take on a week over week basis. Using just the past two weeks as an example, here are the actions our GSO team have taken:

  • Total Exploitative Battle.net Account Closures: 248,105
  • Total Exploitative World of Warcraft Account Closures: 73,057

This is just the last two weeks, and this is what our efforts look like very regularly, week-in and week-out. It’s an enormous effort and it’s many, many individuals’ full-time jobs to do this. This is an issue of sheer, staggering scale. We have the tools, and those tools are effective, but the malicious actors come right back with new and different methods every time. All that being said, we need to post these things more, and that’s something that our team wants to be able to surface more often.

Thanks you for reading, and thank you for your feedback.

– The WoW Classic Team

WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Characters

  • The niffen have noticed that player’s scent permeates through all their characters, as such, the Smelly title is now account-wide.

Classes

  • Paladin
    • Fixed an issue where some cooldowns were not updating dynamically with Blessing of Dusk.
    • The cooldowns of Holy Prism and Light’s Hammer are now reduced by Blessing of Dusk when the class set is equipped.

Items and Rewards

  • Firelands Timewalking Trinkets
    • The Hungerer - Haste reduced by 5%.
    • Matrix Restabilizer - All secondary stats reduced by 5%.
    • Necromantic Focus - Mastery reduced by 20%.
    • Vessel of Acceleration - Critical Strike reduced by 10%.

Player versus Player

  • Classes
    • Hunter
      • Sentinel now resets to 5 stacks or seconds available when Arenas and Battlegrounds start.
  • Items and Rewards
    • Ashkandur, Fall of the Brotherhood damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Bile-Stained Crawg Tusks damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Forgestorm damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic, WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023 started by Lumy View original post
Comments 210 Comments
  1. Cosmic Janitor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    We all know Blizzard's internal programmers function at the same level intellectually as a toddler and are incapable of doing anything useful. If only Blizzard would hire from the fansite forums where every single person who contributes to the conversation has a quadruple PhD in bot detection and prevention. I'm sure you could easily whip up something better than any of the counter measures they've developed in twenty years, maybe even before breakfast. Well, you're probably not a programmer but I think if you read a few wikipedia articles on the subject you'll easily be ten to twenty times more useful than your average Blizzard programmer.
    Lame appeal to authority /yawn. Yes, Blizzard's efforts in this matter are clearly lacking, which is rather obvious. The only reason botting is as profitable as it is, is because Blizzard allows it to be. The reason is simple: combating it would cost them double, wheres adding the token gives a tripple benefit for them. Also, I feel like I need to point it out yes again: Yes, even through you may not be able to comprehend it, in a nerdy fandom like WoW's there are indeed people aplenty that could deliver you dozens of possible solutions to a technical problem at the drop of a hat. In fact, even in its diminished state right now, the sheer size of the playerbase means that will find all kinds of people.
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Janitor View Post
    Lame appeal to authority /yawn. Yes, Blizzard's efforts in this matter are clearly lacking, which is rather obvious. The only reason botting is as profitable as it is, is because Blizzard allows it to be. The reason is simple: combating it would cost them double, wheres adding the token gives a tripple benefit for them. Also, I feel like I need to point it out yes again: Yes, even through you may not be able to comprehend it, in a nerdy fandom like WoW's there are indeed people aplenty that could deliver you dozens of possible solutions to a technical problem at the drop of a hat. In fact, even in its diminished state right now, the sheer size of the playerbase means that will find all kinds of people.
    Go ahead and read the article linked in the OP of this thread then get back to us, would you?
  1. rrayy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Janitor View Post
    There is a vast difference between not being able to weed out every bot in existence and not doing anything for weeks/months. First of all the whole ban-wave bullshit is just a giant invitation to botters to keep doing it again, because almost always make back their original investment and then some. There is also the laughably blatant bots that run for days and weeks, like the tar pit moonkin parade during SL or all the 24/7 static moonkin skinning bots. This shit is so blatant, a complete programming newbie could come up with ways to identify these in a matter of minutes.
    Prove they are not doing anything? Amazes me that people continue to make baseless claims.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    It's pretty simple really. Can blizzard stop the botting? Yes. Will they invest the time and money into it? No. Their automated systems are clearly not working which means this issue can most likely only be solved with more boots on the ground, so to speak. But they aren't gonna invest in more GMs.
    You aare beyond naive if you think they can stop botting. They can't for reasons they outlined. Hilarious that you think adding GM's will magically make bots disappear. Banning bots does not stop the botting software.
  1. sam86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    No company is going to win the fight against bots
    so give up?
    Also u didn't answer why not make it for same price as a sub instead of take almost half the money pure profit
    Honestly if i think hard about it, the biggest problem is scam profit out of nothing, if they sell token for exact price as sub (or even a few penny, for 'online fees' or something, even if that fee apply to buying a sub too) it would get far less heat, but blizz is making a sub costs almost 50% more for reward of in-game gold, while inflating prices as much as they want with support of boost sales, and making the game more and more slot-machine like

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Prove they are not doing anything? Amazes me that people continue to make baseless claims.
    the prove is right in-game, the bots army was 24/7 active and well known, from druid farming in SL, to hunter buzz farming in hellfire citadel
    bots can't play like real ppl, they have spots, farm them 24/7, something that can easily be detected, heck just check who is online 24 hours, no human can do that, and if u afk (to sleep duh) u get dc after i think 30min then game kicks u out of server in another 30 min
    "what if a human actually stays 24/7" then have someone just check the extremely few players who stay online 24/7 and contact them to confirm they are not bot

    all my 'solutions' may not work anymore with the insane rise of AI but they are answers to old problems that existed for years unsolved, and again during tbc the 'most delayed' ticket answer i got was 20 min in a patch day, while now with 1/10 of playerbase u lucky to get answer in same day, because bobby kodick fired 10% of staff whom entire year salary worth is lower than 1 of his bonus he gave himself in same year

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Janitor View Post
    In fact, even in its diminished state right now, the sheer size of the playerbase means that will find all kinds of people.
    how many play now? i'm asking for real..
    i know it is unrelated to topic but i feel pissed that DF seems to have less players than BFA/SL
  1. rrayy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the prove is right in-game, the bots army was 24/7 active and well known, from druid farming in SL, to hunter buzz farming in hellfire citadel
    bots can't play like real ppl, they have spots, farm them 24/7, something that can easily be detected, heck just check who is online 24 hours, no human can do that, and if u afk (to sleep duh) u get dc after i think 30min then game kicks u out of server in another 30 min
    "what if a human actually stays 24/7" then have someone just check the extremely few players who stay online 24/7 and contact them to confirm they are not bot

    all my 'solutions' may not work anymore with the insane rise of AI but they are answers to old problems that existed for years unsolved, and again during tbc the 'most delayed' ticket answer i got was 20 min in a patch day, while now with 1/10 of playerbase u lucky to get answer in same day, because bobby kodick fired 10% of staff whom entire year salary worth is lower than 1 of his bonus he gave himself in same year
    That isn't proof. But you do show you have absolutely no understanding of bots. Simply banning bots will not stop it because they will just get new accounts and be botting almost immediately. You have to break the botting software. And as you do that, the bot software makers will be updating their botting software to combat Blizzard trying to break it. Your "solutions" are not feasible. and do nothing to really combat botting because you don't do anything to actually break the bots. You can ban 50,000 bots and then 55,000 more bots show up to replace them while you are doing that.

    Banning bots WILL...NOT...WORK unless you break the botting software as well. It amuses me people think botters will quit because they got banned. That is beyond niave thinking.
  1. sam86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    That isn't proof. But you do show you have absolutely no understanding of bots. Simply banning bots will not stop it because they will just get new accounts and be botting almost immediately.
    how
    if u actually ban them, and they start bleeding accounts, they will stop, accounts+sub cost money, and since blizz do a good job of making old content irrelevant they must buy current exp, we talk about average of 50usd just to start, and to farm u need to be active for few days to successfully start get gold for sale, during all that time, the typical bot behavior can be detected too easy and stopped fast if they try, but they don't
    again with this very first year of rise of AI i don't know how it will be from now forward, but up to 2023, detecting bots is too easy, blizz problem from 2004 to cata was that main gold income from bots was hacking account, something that authenticator in smartphones killed
    And again because this keep getting ignored if their goal is to actually fight bots don't get a fucking ~40% profit out of it, make a token exactly sub price for 1 month, make it an option u buy token to sub or sell for same price, they don't do that because they never had problem with bots, they just want profit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I never said it's too hard for Blizzard to ban these people, I said it's impossible for them to ban them all. It's a pipe dream so stop quoting your favorite streamer or upvoted comments on reddit. Back when Blizzard had "integrity" and not underneath the great savior "BOBBY", they still couldn't deal with bots farming in Vanilla WoW or creating hundreds of characters to suicide in capital cities directing players to gold buying websites. This is back when they physically had a lot of customer service as well, and while rare, you might spot a GM from time to time.
    because back then the main source of income for gold sellers was hacking accounts, not actually farming, bots weren't smart at all to farm and with no authenticator using wow websites to hack was way easier, something that rise of smartphones killed off and ended its threat
    back then banning gold farmers usually result in banning innocent ppl who got hacked then fucked by blizz for 'suspicious behavior', like what?
    wow is so old that most of its old patches videos (something that i miss and sadly blizz stopped) aren't even uploaded on wow official youtube channel, but u can find them in all glory 240p fans channels
  1. Tojara's Avatar
    Uh, back then there were actual PEOPLE farming gold and selling it for money because gold in WoW was worth more than their native currency at the time. If you knew any mandarin which a few people in my guild did (in Vanilla), you could talk to people who just endlessly farmed certain areas and sometimes get pretty good deals. Otherwise they would just sit there and endlessly farm (they weren't bots).

    There was still bots in early iterations of WoW. They might have not been super efficient at farming at this point in time, but they definitely existed. There's a reason why you randomly get disconnected from moving too fast or using things like gliders at particular spots. The games way of checking to see if you're doing something you aren't suppose to, but can randomly disconnect you for doing something as simple as using engineering.

    I certainly remember bots flying under the terrain in WoTLK/Cata mining things completely out of sight.
  1. ParanoiD84's Avatar
    Wonder how much of a problem bots and gold sellers will be in d4 seeing as you can trade gold.
  1. kranur's Avatar
    Would have been a decent thought if they had not included the part "we're adding the token because people are not interested in it and it doesn't impact the regular player" ... bull fucking shit.
  1. rrayy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    how
    if u actually ban them, and they start bleeding accounts, they will stop, accounts+sub cost money, and since blizz do a good job of making old content irrelevant they must buy current exp, we talk about average of 50usd just to start, and to farm u need to be active for few days to successfully start get gold for sale, during all that time, the typical bot behavior can be detected too easy and stopped fast if they try, but they don't
    again with this very first year of rise of AI i don't know how it will be from now forward, but up to 2023, detecting bots is too easy, blizz problem from 2004 to cata was that main gold income from bots was hacking account, something that authenticator in smartphones killed
    And again because this keep getting ignored if their goal is to actually fight bots don't get a fucking ~40% profit out of it, make a token exactly sub price for 1 month, make it an option u buy token to sub or sell for same price, they don't do that because they never had problem with bots, they just want profit
    You are naive. They will just get a new account, likely paid with a stolen credit card, and continue on their merry way. You have also ignored what will truly stop bots and that is breaking them. Bots will continue to happen unless you break the botting software, and by the time you are able to do that, the botters have already updated their bots to get around what Blizz broke. You don't have any clue what you are talking about.
  1. sam86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You are naive. They will just get a new account, likely paid with a stolen credit card, and continue on their merry way. You don't have any clue what you are talking about.
    they will steal credit cards to buy wow accounts? beside the obvious fact that u don't steal a credit card for a joke of 50 usd, then they will use 1 card to buy shitload of accounts in same time, making it - again - easy to combat since it will be obvious when blizz find 1 credit card bought 10000 account at same time
    and if they steal just like 100 usd from each card, they don't need wow gold then to get money, it is enough for them to get rich from credit card
    credit card stealing makes more profit way more than sell gold in wow, and u claim i don't know what i talk about?
  1. Mysterymask's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Wonder how much of a problem bots and gold sellers will be in d4 seeing as you can trade gold.
    I mean there's gold sellers in 3 where
    1. Gold practically rains from the sky
    2. You cant trade it
    3. It doesn't even really do anything

    I mean shit Madden has seller bots, Street fighter has seller bots if there's a grind to be done there is someone who's gonna profit off someone's lazyness
  1. rrayy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they will steal credit cards to buy wow accounts? beside the obvious fact that u don't steal a credit card for a joke of 50 usd, then they will use 1 card to buy shitload of accounts in same time, making it - again - easy to combat since it will be obvious when blizz find 1 credit card bought 10000 account at same time
    and if they steal just like 100 usd from each card, they don't need wow gold then to get money, it is enough for them to get rich from credit card
    credit card stealing makes more profit way more than sell gold in wow, and u claim i don't know what i talk about?
    They use said stolen credit account to by all the accounts, not just one.

    You don't khnow what you talk about because you hilariously think you can get bots to quit by merely banning them. They have banned a ton of accounts and tbey keep coming back. Simply banning accounts may work in your fantasy world, but in the real world it doesn't.
  1. Mecheon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they will steal credit cards to buy wow accounts? beside the obvious fact that u don't steal a credit card for a joke of 50 usd, then they will use 1 card to buy shitload of accounts in same time, making it - again - easy to combat since it will be obvious when blizz find 1 credit card bought 10000 account at same time
    and if they steal just like 100 usd from each card, they don't need wow gold then to get money, it is enough for them to get rich from credit card
    credit card stealing makes more profit way more than sell gold in wow, and u claim i don't know what i talk about?
    I think you don't quite get the scales at play here. This isn't just like, one or two random people. Back in its heyday, gold farming in WoW was a ridiculously massive industry, and the way Classic players play was basically leading right back to that. Like, I forget who, but someone invested like $60k into one of the gold farming companies around. Very publically did this. This stuff was Big Business, and Classic players are, at present, actively supporting it with what is basically gold laundering

    Frankly the better solution would Classic players killing off GDKP, instead playing for fun and not shoving their nose directly against the grindstone, treating normal raids we cleared a decade ago with all of the expectancy of a mythic world first race, but, well, the Classic playerbase is what it is and they've apparently decided how to play. May as well undercut the competition if Classic players want to buy gold that badly.
  1. Stickiler's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they will steal credit cards to buy wow accounts? beside the obvious fact that u don't steal a credit card for a joke of 50 usd, then they will use 1 card to buy shitload of accounts in same time, making it - again - easy to combat since it will be obvious when blizz find 1 credit card bought 10000 account at same time
    and if they steal just like 100 usd from each card, they don't need wow gold then to get money, it is enough for them to get rich from credit card
    credit card stealing makes more profit way more than sell gold in wow, and u claim i don't know what i talk about?
    I feel like you're saying they steal the credit cards themselves, but that's not how it works. They buy them for 10c-1$ on the dark web, then buy as many accounts as they can and set them botting. Also, Blizzard doesn't see your credit card details, as far as I'm aware, that's handled by Adyen, their payment processor.
  1. trimble's Avatar
    Why solve a problem when you can profit from it?

    Hiring as little as 2 full time gms to monitor a server would cripple botters and gold buyers/sellers in a matter a weeks if they banned on the spot.
  1. Biomega's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    Why solve a problem when you can profit from it?

    Hiring as little as 2 full time gms to monitor servers would cripple botters and gold buyers/sellers in a matter a weeks if they banned on the spot.
    If you think 2 people could monitor all of WoW's servers for botting and gold-selling, you seriously underestimate the scope of things. Let alone the fact that as people have pointed out, simply banning botters tends to be ineffective, because a lot of the time they use stolen or fraudulently obtained accounts anyway. You think 2 people are enough to keep up with organized botting operations overseas? That's borderline delusional.
  1. trimble's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If you think 2 people could monitor all of WoW's servers for botting and gold-selling, you seriously underestimate the scope of things. Let alone the fact that as people have pointed out, simply banning botters tends to be ineffective, because a lot of the time they use stolen or fraudulently obtained accounts anyway. You think 2 people are enough to keep up with organized botting operations overseas? That's borderline delusional.
    I meant per server
  1. Biomega's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    I meant per server
    You realize there's more than 200 realms on US alone right. You're casually saying "just hire 500 people full-time!". Still delusional.
  1. trimble's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    You realize there's more than 200 realms on US alone right. You're casually saying "just hire 500 people full-time!". Still delusional.
    Why...? It isn't like it would even cut into profits much with what they make off wow still. Why is it absurd to ask for customer services in a game with a sub,cashshop,cosmetics,services,yearly expansions, and merch?

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