Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Greetings.

We want to take a moment to talk about WoW Token in Wrath of the Lich King Classic.

The best way to start is to simply say that this wasn’t something we arrived at lightly. For the entirety of Classic so far, the WoW Classic team has been very resistant to the idea of adding WoW Token to any form of Classic in the Western regions (NA and EU). When WoW Classic started in 2019, adding something like token felt unimaginable to us, and that continued to be true for us–even late into Burning Crusade Classic–for a few reasons:

  • In Vanilla WoW, the scarcity of gold is a major factor in how you approach your journey in Azeroth. From saving to get your first mount at 40, to picking and choosing which skills you wanted to learn while leveling so you could afford a new weapon or piece of armor. Later on at level 60, some form of time investment is needed to “maintain” a character in an ecosystem where flasks, resistance potions, and elixirs are such a major part of the game, and resources are scarce and highly contested. This was true all the way through Burning Crusade, where potions and flasks could represent a significant weekly expense and the resources required to make them were still quite difficult to obtain.
  • It just didn’t feel “Classic”. It felt jarring, out of place, and was antithetical to what most of us wanted to relive about those early years of WoW.

However, what we want to do from a design perspective and what we need to do for the good of the community aren’t always aligned, and this is one of the more difficult things about maintaining a large online game like Wrath Classic. When we really looked at the state of things in Wrath Classic, and how different players approach the game, we saw that we cannot cause the demand for gold to be lower. The impact of illicit RMT is beyond just buying gold; it’s the entire black market that revolves around gold sales. The concept of bots gets thrown around a lot, but it’s not just “bots” that fuel this, it’s compromised accounts, credit card fraud, scams, hacked clients, and the tools that illicit third parties use to fuel the engine that is the RMT trade.

We hear folks say things like “just ban the bots” a lot. We ban tens of thousands of bots a week. It’s not visible to you just how much we do, and that is absolutely another problem in itself; we need to be better at surfacing these actions (more on this later). The truth is we’ve never been better and more effective at identifying and actioning malicious accounts, and our Game Security Operations (GSO) team that handle these actions are iterating and innovating on a nearly daily basis.

Unfortunately, in the history of WoW, the people perpetrating this illicit trade have also never been better at coming up with new methods, schemes, farms, and exploits to work around our efforts. As much engineering and analytics effort as we put into this, illicit RMT “workshops” put the same amount in, or more, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of these workshops out there all working around the clock to develop new technologies and techniques to counter our new technologies and techniques. It’s an arms race, and it never, ever ends.

We will never completely beat “bots” or illicit RMT. It’s an unwinnable war as long as there is money to be made by third parties. The ubiquitous nature of this type of thing in online games is an objective fact. It has always been a part of WoW, and every other popular online game for the past 25 years, and it will always be a part of online games going forward. It’s frustrating to fight this fight, but we will not stop fighting it.

While we can’t completely “win” the war, what we can do is mitigate the impact it has on the game. Is WoW Token the be-all and end-all to solve this? No, but it is a tool. It’s just one tool, though, among many. There is clearly a demand for gold for certain types of players, and that demand is only increasing. So, we are engaging a tool that we’ve used before to help mitigate the impact that illicit RMT has on the game. The more tools we employ, and the less lucrative we can make it for third parties to do what they do to make a profit, the less likely it is that new malicious actors enter the illicit RMT scene, and the more likely that existing malicious actors will exit the business. Ultimately, it’s taking incremental steps and using a multitude of tools that will reduce how impactful those third parties will be in Wrath Classic and beyond.

Wrath Design and the “Value” of Gold

Circling back to what was mentioned earlier about why WoW Token feels like a tool we should deploy now, we have to look at the base design of Wrath of the Lich King. Ultimately, this is what convinced us to reconsider WoW Token after resisting and refusing this path for so long. In Wrath Classic, your normal weekly activities are, for the most part, self-sustaining. Buying potions, flasks, reagents, and other normal necessities of endgame can be subsidized entirely by mostly just playing the game normally. Doing your usual weekly raid, a few dungeons, or a few dailies a week will net even the most fervent and well-prepared characters more gold than they would need to maintain themselves. Simply put, gold is more plentiful, and the base design of Wrath minimized the focus on needing to “farm” to support normal play.

When we considered that, we realized that the introduction of token wouldn’t be a temptation for most regular players to buy to help support their usual everyday gameplay. It’s simply not impactful to the average player who logs in, raids a few days a week with their guild, does a few dungeons and dailies, and then plays other games in between those activities. There’s no friction in that player’s experience that would tempt them to buy a token just to keep themselves afloat.

Better Visibility into Exploitative Account Actions

As mentioned earlier, we need to improve the visibility around what we do. We posted some weeks ago that we banned over 120,000 malicious accounts in World of Warcraft alone in a large wave, but those large waves that we talk about are actually a very small portion of the overall actions we take on a week over week basis. Using just the past two weeks as an example, here are the actions our GSO team have taken:

  • Total Exploitative Battle.net Account Closures: 248,105
  • Total Exploitative World of Warcraft Account Closures: 73,057

This is just the last two weeks, and this is what our efforts look like very regularly, week-in and week-out. It’s an enormous effort and it’s many, many individuals’ full-time jobs to do this. This is an issue of sheer, staggering scale. We have the tools, and those tools are effective, but the malicious actors come right back with new and different methods every time. All that being said, we need to post these things more, and that’s something that our team wants to be able to surface more often.

Thanks you for reading, and thank you for your feedback.

– The WoW Classic Team

WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Characters

  • The niffen have noticed that player’s scent permeates through all their characters, as such, the Smelly title is now account-wide.

Classes

  • Paladin
    • Fixed an issue where some cooldowns were not updating dynamically with Blessing of Dusk.
    • The cooldowns of Holy Prism and Light’s Hammer are now reduced by Blessing of Dusk when the class set is equipped.

Items and Rewards

  • Firelands Timewalking Trinkets
    • The Hungerer - Haste reduced by 5%.
    • Matrix Restabilizer - All secondary stats reduced by 5%.
    • Necromantic Focus - Mastery reduced by 20%.
    • Vessel of Acceleration - Critical Strike reduced by 10%.

Player versus Player

  • Classes
    • Hunter
      • Sentinel now resets to 5 stacks or seconds available when Arenas and Battlegrounds start.
  • Items and Rewards
    • Ashkandur, Fall of the Brotherhood damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Bile-Stained Crawg Tusks damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Forgestorm damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic, WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023 started by Lumy View original post
Comments 187 Comments
  1. Biomega's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by aeuhe4yxzhds View Post
    Do people ever get banned for buying gold? i've reported multiple people before the token who spoke openly about buying gold yet they're never been banned
    They do. There's plenty of angry forum posts when they get banned, don't you worry.

    That being said, it's not as easy or as straightforward as people think to find who is and isn't buying gold, because gold sellers (and buyers) aren't complete idiots that whisper each other in game "hey Susan Express here, I've got the 500,000g you illegally purchased for $19.99 please trade me!". Nor is anyone who receives 10,000g in the mail or purchases a trivial auction for a ton of gold automatically guilty of gold-buying. The sheer volume of even just the suspected cases must be staggering, given how many players there are and how much gold is transacted by and through them all the time in various ways. It's a Sisyphean undertaking to try and catch them all, doubly so because as soon as you find one way to detect what they're doing, they'll come up with another way to hide it better - if you flag transactions over 10,000g, they'll just trade in batches of 9,999g. If you flag mail delivery, they'll do it in person. And so on and so forth, until the amount of work involved simply overwhelms the financial feasibility of any countermeasure that doesn't address things at the root - which is what they're doing with the token.

    Is this the perfect solution? No. But there... isn't one. For 20 years, people have stubbornly and insistently made clear that A LOT OF PLAYERS WANT TO BUY GOLD. Period. You're not just going to suddenly make that slice of the population disappear, and short of implementing heavy-handed, Draconian measures with a wide margin of error (a 'solution' that'd be worse than the problem) there just isn't a realistically implementable way to keep this in check. By taking control of the supply and legalizing it, at least now it's safer and you don't have to deal with scammers, credit card theft, hacked accounts, and so on as much as before.

    Is Blizzard making money on this? Absolutely. But it's not like money is their sole motivator here - they've tried for years to solve it in other ways, and it's just not working. It's not even surprising that it isn't working, given the scope of the demand. If anything it's surprising they didn't start selling tokens much sooner.

    For most people, this shouldn't really change anything anyway. People who buy gold always existed before, too. It's not like this'll magically make everyone become a gold buyer. If you don't want to buy tokens, don't buy them. Tokens don't create gold, either (since they're only a medium of exchange, any gold that you get from selling one comes from another player so it already existed). GDKP runs were dominated by people with tons of gold anyway, and those that wanted to buy gold for GDKP runs more than likely already did so before. What's REALLY changed, in terms of measurable effects for the average player?
  1. DeltaLimaCharlie's Avatar
    I don't understand why people seem to think this is some easy solution..."Just hire more people, just ban more people, just find a solution to an age old problem dummy"...Every major MMO/game with currency/market/trading has a massive issue with this, too many armchair devs think they have the perfect solution. By the very nature of these things they will always be behind the illicit RMT trade.
    I don't really have strong feelings either way for or against the token. In retail I just used my gold to play for free and turn into Blizzard balance. I'll do the same for Classic. If it helps combat the bots and illicit RMT stuff great, if it not well nothings really changed for me except someone else is paying my sub now.
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    literally just read the post below you
    exactly, let's defend a big cooperation who lives on scamming average worker so if i ever one day become multi rich i find simps to defend me too
    Lets start with the fact that I'm not defending them, because they are doing nothing wrong. They're a company selling stuff, as companies do. Don't like the product, don't buy it. I'm in a guild and I don't give a shit about GDKP, tokens and what have you. If YOU have a problem with that, don't hop into the hamster wheel in the first place; nobody forced you there. Then everything is bliss.
  1. Algorath's Avatar
    I'm sure the 37 people still playing WoW:classic are devastated

    Ulduar is gone. The last "nostalgic" thing is done. You are basically playing Retail:Timewalking from here on.
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    "crimes happen since 7000bc so we should just stop fighting it and defund all legal laws"
    we can also save money by remove court and judge, u know what just give everyone a gun and let them solve their problems
    Slippery slope, and not even a good one. There's a tipping point somewhere and while I disagree with Blizzard adding the token at this time I feel like it was an inevitability given how they failed to stop it from the beginning.
  1. Maell's Avatar
    Those talking about Korean Servers saying there can't be bots there because you need a SSN to create an account there, if you could see the demographics of those accounts, you would not believe how many senior citizens play it.
  1. rNadom's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maell View Post
    Those talking about Korean Servers saying there can't be bots there because you need a SSN to create an account there, if you could see the demographics of those accounts, you would not believe how many senior citizens play it.
    Identity thief is also a criminal offense, not just an EULA violation.
    If caught, doesn't cost Blizzard any resource, just forward the data to the feds.
  1. Gorsameth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    "crimes happen since 7000bc so we should just stop fighting it and defund all legal laws"
    we can also save money by remove court and judge, u know what just give everyone a gun and let them solve their problems
    But that isn't what Blizzard is saying at all. Introducing the Token won't stop them from fighting bots or RMT.

    The real world is full of examples that support Blizzards view.
    Just look at the effects of legalizing cannabis on crime, addiction and healthcare.
  1. Mendzia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maell View Post
    Those talking about Korean Servers saying there can't be bots there because you need a SSN to create an account there, if you could see the demographics of those accounts, you would not believe how many senior citizens play it.
    Of course there can be and are bots.
    Korean client is the same as we have it in EU/US.
    Nobody cares if X person uses fishing bot for a 5min.
    Problem is botting in large scale when it ruins in-game economy, they are everywhere and it is not worth to having herbalism, mining and skinning and you can't progress with your quests because they are killing everything.

    Even if they use random senior citizens IRL data... that is something several degrees worse than just 'oh no they are botting in game' and potentially is probably like criminal identity stealing stuff.
    At the end this system is definitely not perfect but is the reason why there is no 'AI friends' problem in Korea in large scale because it is not easy to just make another account after being banned.
  1. Skymercy's Avatar
    No idea what some ppl are smoking, but I'd love some of that.

    I have been playing WoW classic since early TBC and I have been raiding in GDKPs since then. Back in TBC some whales were willing to pay 25K+ for BiS items. I had seen it multiple times. There was no token back then, and ppl were still buying gold from 3rd-party websites. Even in WotLK classic, 3 weeks ago, a player bought comet's trail for 200k and another bought Pharos gloves for 170K. Clearly, those players are gold buyers. Adding WoW token for WoTLK classic allows those transactions to still happen but under Blizzard's watch and profit.

    You can't blame Blizzard's for everything that is going on. Think of this issue as a necklace that is made of small chains attached to one another. One chain is blizzard, another is the player, another could be the economy..etc.

    Some ppl have issues that Blizzard wants to profit and make money by adding wow token to classic. Of course they want to make money, it's a huge company that has huge expenses and they want to get paid for the work that they do. Don't be naive thinking that blizzard would put the player before itself, because if it ceases to exist, we all would cease to exist (in-game).

    Blizzard's main fault were allowing some ignorants (mainly casuals, nubs who play the game seasonally) share their opinion about the game and listening to their feedback. If it were to me, I would say "this is what we have, play or fuck off, your call."

    Unfortunately, some ppl don't deserve freedom or democracy. However, this is some philosophical view that many would not understand. After all, most humans "hear" not "listen", "skim" rather than"read&comprehend" so that at the end they would speak with the lack of understanding.
  1. Stickiler's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rNadom View Post
    I can foresee tokens to be able to exchange for b.net balance 6 months after D4 launch, when they haven't meet their D4 sales target.
    They would just done that and delay launching the token 6 months altogether, if they weren't scrambling to gain alternative revenue today.
    You can already exchange tokens for b.net balance in Retail, and have been able to almost since they released it(I think it was like, 12months after token release they added the b.net balance?). The fact that it's not possible in Wrath means Blizzard specifically didn't enable it, probably because they didn't want the two games' tokens influencing each other. If you could exchange them both for b.net balance, you'd have a seesaw effect of people farming whichever game was easiest to earn token gold in, which would be detrimental to both games.
  1. vizzle's Avatar
    I just find it hard to believe that botters can get their giant teams of bots all the way to max level without any internal flags going off notifying Blizzard of the bots. I just don't buy the excuse that they work so hard to ban bots. It's not like you can start the game up to a fresh max level character (or can you? Correct me if I'm wrong). There's an entire leveling journey these bots have to go through before they can start end game botting and farming and yet they can't do anything to detect that and automatically ban them?
  1. sam86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But that isn't what Blizzard is saying at all. Introducing the Token won't stop them from fighting bots or RMT.
    so why they introducing token then if having token or not u still have bots problem? according to them it is to fight bots, yet they already admit it won't?
    as one of ppl i quoted here said: if it is just to 'fight bots' why take 5euro/$ profit out of it in ur pocket then? why not sell it for exact price of sub (since it is for sub in first place) and still get gold from it?
    It is flat out scamming, they doing that to compensate for losing the massive chineese market, and unlike wrath era where they didn't need china in first place (fun fact, wrath was released in china almost at time of pre-patch cata, and heavily censored too, wow biggest success was pure western with zero china) because i-hate-videogames bobby kodick wasn't still in charge, they need any money source now
    Want to prove goodwill and actually trying to solve it? sell token for same price as 1 month sub, that simple and easy
  1. SL1200's Avatar
    Wow token has had such a major impact. There isn't anything that's not for sale. Blizzard wants their cut. I don't blame them, but I think it's a better game without it.
  1. sam86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I just find it hard to believe that botters can get their giant teams of bots all the way to max level without any internal flags going off notifying Blizzard of the bots. I just don't buy the excuse that they work so hard to ban bots. It's not like you can start the game up to a fresh max level character (or can you? Correct me if I'm wrong). There's an entire leveling journey these bots have to go through before they can start end game botting and farming and yet they can't do anything to detect that and automatically ban them?
    they can't, and add to it bot spots are very well known and infamous like Hellfire roc's farming spot where u find hunters 24/7 there, heck bots can't gold farm as any other class but hunter in first place, and lastly a gold farm lvling bot won't lvl as fast as a human can at all, so they are already slower than even average player

    I still remember even now after ~18 years back in tbc at a patch launch (when they removed priest racials, was it 2.3?) and tickets were overflowing i made ticket and got a 'late' answer in less than 2h and they apologized for being slow too, tell me what is average ticket time right now and they have 1/10 of player population they used to

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skymercy View Post
    I have been playing WoW classic since early TBC and I have been raiding in GDKPs since then. Back in TBC some whales were willing to pay 25K+ for BiS items. I had seen it multiple times. There was no token back then, and ppl were still buying gold from 3rd-party websites. Even in WotLK classic, 3 weeks ago, a player bought comet's trail for 200k and another bought Pharos gloves for 170K. Clearly, those players are gold buyers. Adding WoW token for WoTLK classic allows those transactions to still happen but under Blizzard's watch and profit.
    why u didn't think they are goblin AH? i knew a priest back in TBC whose main way of playing was controlling AH, just that, he was richest on server, in wrath in my guild a troll priest (weird class pick coincidence) was also an AH goblin who was using advanced addons to maximize profit, when our guild collapsed in wrath end after we killed LK and half us got done with game, he left game since - back then - u couldn't transfer char with more than 25 or 35k gold (is it still true now?)
    My server Ghostlands EU had at least 2 ppl i knew who control AH, had bank alts and their main joy in game is to have as much gold as they can to do as they want, they were the type who bid 200k on a rare drop when back then in wrath buying a mammoth traveler was impossible for half of playerbase (16k at exalted)
    Seeing someone rich doesn't mean he bought gold illegal, in fact the ppl who bought illegal gold i knew did that to buy mount in classic/tbc, or a boost in tbc, but they never had 200 or even 100k gold from buying
  1. Stickiler's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    wow biggest success was pure western with zero china)
    That's just not true, if you look at the Blizzard Financial report where they reported their highest ever subscriber count, and read the fineprint, they clearly state that the subscriber number includes the chinese market, aka anyone who's purchased at least 1 hour of WoW time at a PC cafe in the China region. WoW's "biggest success" was a carefully fabricated half-truth designed to make their subscriber count look way larger than it actually was.
  1. Hitei's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Of course there can be and are bots.
    Korean client is the same as we have it in EU/US.
    Nobody cares if X person uses fishing bot for a 5min.
    Problem is botting in large scale when it ruins in-game economy, they are everywhere and it is not worth to having herbalism, mining and skinning and you can't progress with your quests because they are killing everything.

    Even if they use random senior citizens IRL data... that is something several degrees worse than just 'oh no they are botting in game' and potentially is probably like criminal identity stealing stuff.
    At the end this system is definitely not perfect but is the reason why there is no 'AI friends' problem in Korea in large scale because it is not easy to just make another account after being banned.
    What do you not get about the post that you read being just complete bullshit?

    There is plenty of regular botting on korean servers. The claim was literally proven wrong in the same reddit thread.

    Here are literally pictures of korean botting.



    Here is an entire article talking about how terrible the botting problem is on Korean Classic in 2020:
    https://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news...40501&site=wow
    1,846 accounts were banned in April, 3,860 accounts in March, and 3,929 accounts in February.
    Here is an article explaining how the "omg social security lock" does fuck all because Chinese workshops will just set up phishing scams and other illegal methods to acquire numbers, steal accounts, or otherwise bypass the protection.
    https://namu.wiki/w/%EC%9E%91%EC%97%85%EC%9E%A5#fn-6

    Here is a video from three months ago of a guy pointing out and complaining about the atrocious DK botting problem
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    What do you not get about the post that you read being just complete bullshit?
    The best part about it, to me, is that you literally found everything you linked in this post from the reddit thread he linked. It's almost like he wasn't actually looking for a source to corroborate his views, he just wanted hollow validation that his viewpoint was correct in his mind.
  1. vizzle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they can't, and add to it bot spots are very well known and infamous like Hellfire roc's farming spot where u find hunters 24/7 there, heck bots can't gold farm as any other class but hunter in first place, and lastly a gold farm lvling bot won't lvl as fast as a human can at all, so they are already slower than even average player

    I still remember even now after ~18 years back in tbc at a patch launch (when they removed priest racials, was it 2.3?) and tickets were overflowing i made ticket and got a 'late' answer in less than 2h and they apologized for being slow too, tell me what is average ticket time right now and they have 1/10 of player population they used to
    So yeah, exactly. It's such a shame that Blizzard would rather say "oh we try so hard to ban bots but it's a never ending arms race" when bots are -more obvious than ever before-. The only investment on their end would be having a few hourly minimum wage guys to patrol the world, respond to reports, find the hotspots, and just ban every single day. Then if they want to automate it, just write up a few scripts/flags of the things these bots keep doing and just follow them as they move to a new location. Again, it's not like they can break an economy in one day; Blizzard lets it go on for weeks and months and then pretend they're on the frontlines of Bakhmut, lmao.

    But they don't want to do that because it would lose them so much money, apparently. *shrug* They benefit from these bots more than anyone.
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    So yeah, exactly. It's such a shame that Blizzard would rather say "oh we try so hard to ban bots but it's a never ending arms race" when bots are -more obvious than ever before-. The only investment on their end would be having a few hourly minimum wage guys to patrol the world, respond to reports, find the hotspots, and just ban every single day. Then if they want to automate it, just write up a few scripts/flags of the things these bots keep doing and just follow them as they move to a new location. Again, it's not like they can break an economy in one day; Blizzard lets it go on for weeks and months and then pretend they're on the frontlines of Bakhmut, lmao.

    But they don't want to do that because it would lose them so much money, apparently. *shrug* They benefit from these bots more than anyone.
    More humans could have staved the inevitable at least until the end of WotLK -- that much I agree with. But I doubt Blizzard is all-too-jazzed to hire people whose sole job description is "guy who watches bots." That's a terrible waste of human labor. They'd likely have them working multiple things at once (answering other tickets, responding to e-mails, etc) and the more that their job description strays from the oh-so-important task of ensuring people aren't bots, the less effective such a position becomes.

    There are ways to combat botting -- but outside of the traditional methods that Blizzard is assuredly already employing, I think we'd be talking about kernel-level changes to the game. This is would have had to have been done before they launched Vanilla Classic. They were more concerned with getting the product released than they were preventing bots. They also could have launched it with the token already there but they already explained why they didn't in the post. The sad reality is that the token in a world where botting is possible is an inevitability.

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