Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Greetings.

We want to take a moment to talk about WoW Token in Wrath of the Lich King Classic.

The best way to start is to simply say that this wasn’t something we arrived at lightly. For the entirety of Classic so far, the WoW Classic team has been very resistant to the idea of adding WoW Token to any form of Classic in the Western regions (NA and EU). When WoW Classic started in 2019, adding something like token felt unimaginable to us, and that continued to be true for us–even late into Burning Crusade Classic–for a few reasons:

  • In Vanilla WoW, the scarcity of gold is a major factor in how you approach your journey in Azeroth. From saving to get your first mount at 40, to picking and choosing which skills you wanted to learn while leveling so you could afford a new weapon or piece of armor. Later on at level 60, some form of time investment is needed to “maintain” a character in an ecosystem where flasks, resistance potions, and elixirs are such a major part of the game, and resources are scarce and highly contested. This was true all the way through Burning Crusade, where potions and flasks could represent a significant weekly expense and the resources required to make them were still quite difficult to obtain.
  • It just didn’t feel “Classic”. It felt jarring, out of place, and was antithetical to what most of us wanted to relive about those early years of WoW.

However, what we want to do from a design perspective and what we need to do for the good of the community aren’t always aligned, and this is one of the more difficult things about maintaining a large online game like Wrath Classic. When we really looked at the state of things in Wrath Classic, and how different players approach the game, we saw that we cannot cause the demand for gold to be lower. The impact of illicit RMT is beyond just buying gold; it’s the entire black market that revolves around gold sales. The concept of bots gets thrown around a lot, but it’s not just “bots” that fuel this, it’s compromised accounts, credit card fraud, scams, hacked clients, and the tools that illicit third parties use to fuel the engine that is the RMT trade.

We hear folks say things like “just ban the bots” a lot. We ban tens of thousands of bots a week. It’s not visible to you just how much we do, and that is absolutely another problem in itself; we need to be better at surfacing these actions (more on this later). The truth is we’ve never been better and more effective at identifying and actioning malicious accounts, and our Game Security Operations (GSO) team that handle these actions are iterating and innovating on a nearly daily basis.

Unfortunately, in the history of WoW, the people perpetrating this illicit trade have also never been better at coming up with new methods, schemes, farms, and exploits to work around our efforts. As much engineering and analytics effort as we put into this, illicit RMT “workshops” put the same amount in, or more, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of these workshops out there all working around the clock to develop new technologies and techniques to counter our new technologies and techniques. It’s an arms race, and it never, ever ends.

We will never completely beat “bots” or illicit RMT. It’s an unwinnable war as long as there is money to be made by third parties. The ubiquitous nature of this type of thing in online games is an objective fact. It has always been a part of WoW, and every other popular online game for the past 25 years, and it will always be a part of online games going forward. It’s frustrating to fight this fight, but we will not stop fighting it.

While we can’t completely “win” the war, what we can do is mitigate the impact it has on the game. Is WoW Token the be-all and end-all to solve this? No, but it is a tool. It’s just one tool, though, among many. There is clearly a demand for gold for certain types of players, and that demand is only increasing. So, we are engaging a tool that we’ve used before to help mitigate the impact that illicit RMT has on the game. The more tools we employ, and the less lucrative we can make it for third parties to do what they do to make a profit, the less likely it is that new malicious actors enter the illicit RMT scene, and the more likely that existing malicious actors will exit the business. Ultimately, it’s taking incremental steps and using a multitude of tools that will reduce how impactful those third parties will be in Wrath Classic and beyond.

Wrath Design and the “Value” of Gold

Circling back to what was mentioned earlier about why WoW Token feels like a tool we should deploy now, we have to look at the base design of Wrath of the Lich King. Ultimately, this is what convinced us to reconsider WoW Token after resisting and refusing this path for so long. In Wrath Classic, your normal weekly activities are, for the most part, self-sustaining. Buying potions, flasks, reagents, and other normal necessities of endgame can be subsidized entirely by mostly just playing the game normally. Doing your usual weekly raid, a few dungeons, or a few dailies a week will net even the most fervent and well-prepared characters more gold than they would need to maintain themselves. Simply put, gold is more plentiful, and the base design of Wrath minimized the focus on needing to “farm” to support normal play.

When we considered that, we realized that the introduction of token wouldn’t be a temptation for most regular players to buy to help support their usual everyday gameplay. It’s simply not impactful to the average player who logs in, raids a few days a week with their guild, does a few dungeons and dailies, and then plays other games in between those activities. There’s no friction in that player’s experience that would tempt them to buy a token just to keep themselves afloat.

Better Visibility into Exploitative Account Actions

As mentioned earlier, we need to improve the visibility around what we do. We posted some weeks ago that we banned over 120,000 malicious accounts in World of Warcraft alone in a large wave, but those large waves that we talk about are actually a very small portion of the overall actions we take on a week over week basis. Using just the past two weeks as an example, here are the actions our GSO team have taken:

  • Total Exploitative Battle.net Account Closures: 248,105
  • Total Exploitative World of Warcraft Account Closures: 73,057

This is just the last two weeks, and this is what our efforts look like very regularly, week-in and week-out. It’s an enormous effort and it’s many, many individuals’ full-time jobs to do this. This is an issue of sheer, staggering scale. We have the tools, and those tools are effective, but the malicious actors come right back with new and different methods every time. All that being said, we need to post these things more, and that’s something that our team wants to be able to surface more often.

Thanks you for reading, and thank you for your feedback.

– The WoW Classic Team

WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Characters

  • The niffen have noticed that player’s scent permeates through all their characters, as such, the Smelly title is now account-wide.

Classes

  • Paladin
    • Fixed an issue where some cooldowns were not updating dynamically with Blessing of Dusk.
    • The cooldowns of Holy Prism and Light’s Hammer are now reduced by Blessing of Dusk when the class set is equipped.

Items and Rewards

  • Firelands Timewalking Trinkets
    • The Hungerer - Haste reduced by 5%.
    • Matrix Restabilizer - All secondary stats reduced by 5%.
    • Necromantic Focus - Mastery reduced by 20%.
    • Vessel of Acceleration - Critical Strike reduced by 10%.

Player versus Player

  • Classes
    • Hunter
      • Sentinel now resets to 5 stacks or seconds available when Arenas and Battlegrounds start.
  • Items and Rewards
    • Ashkandur, Fall of the Brotherhood damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Bile-Stained Crawg Tusks damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
    • Forgestorm damage reduced by 60% in PvP Combat.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic, WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023 started by Lumy View original post
Comments 187 Comments
  1. Khaza-R's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    They never did.

    The token is the only thing that realistically hampered gold sellers as bans were meaningless when there was millions of dollars up for grabs.
    Which isn't going to happen in Wrath Classic.

    If gold buying was so rampant then it means it was reasonably reliable for people to habitually do it in the first place.

    The only way it hurts 3rd party gold-sellers is new or prospective buyers. Which from now to ICC the amount of new players joining is likely negligible.
  1. Dadwen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by LolFrank View Post
    MMO-C forums: BIG GAME COMPANY BAD >
    Blizzard: We're trying to disincentivize and devalue botting
    MMO-C forums: MONEY HUNGRY
    Blizzard: Botting and gold farming has been an issue not for only us but for the online gaming industry for years(this is a proven fact)
    MMO-C forums: CORPORATE GREED!!

    Like no matter what they say, you apes will always be mad, and when they don't say anything... forum posts like "No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means" How do people live their life being this pessimistic. It has to be exhausting.
    Personally I could get two flying F's if they sold the tokens, what pisses me off it they went on some BS about some Pillars how classic will will be and how they won't put in original (but did put in number of retail ideas) wrath systems because of said pillars (systems that on the crap lopsided server I had started on would have made the game more playable), and as soon as they hit a bump that hurts them or is hard for them to solve, whoosh right out the window with the pillars crap....
  1. Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Which isn't going to happen in Wrath Classic.

    If gold buying was so rampant then it means it was reasonably reliable for people to habitually do it in the first place.

    The only way it hurts 3rd party gold-sellers is new or prospective buyers. Which from now to ICC the amount of new players joining is likely negligible.
    The same thing could be (and was) said when they added the token in Wod. Gold sellers had 10 years of doing business with tons of people taking part, then the token came removing any risk of you getting caught and while the market didn’t die it was greatly diminished.
  1. Kralljin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    When you buy gold from Blizzard you're at least exchanging it for a tangible service.
    The only effective difference is that someone else pays with gold for their subscription, rather than money.
    For the one who buys the token on the store, nothing is that different beyond the risk of getting banned being gone.

    But it also needs to be said that Blizzard takes a sizeable chunk out of that, 20€ for 1 month game time vs. 13€ a regular sub, that ~50% sure as shit isn't there to cover the extra expenses from them implementing the WoW Token.
    Quote Originally Posted by LolFrank View Post
    Like no matter what they say, you apes will always be mad, and when they don't say anything... forum posts like "No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means" How do people live their life being this pessimistic. It has to be exhausting.
    They're free to lower the prices on WoW Tokens, it would make them more competitive with RMT'ers and thus drive a lot more of them out of the business.

    I said it earlier in this thread, you get roughly 50% more gold when you buy it on the Black market.
    And 50% is a number that speaks for itself in my book.
  1. Khaza-R's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The same thing could be (and was) said when they added the token in Wod. Gold sellers had 10 years of doing business with tons of people taking part, then the token came removing any risk of you getting caught and while the market didn’t die it was greatly diminished.
    Sort of apples and oranges because we are comparing two instances of time separated by 10 years and with different player habits as well.

    Just as there's a cat and mouse game with botters, the same relationship exists with 3rd party sellers. For a person already buying gold who hasn't been hassled by the process there's no incentive to start buying gold from Blizzard for 2x the price they are getting it at now.
  1. LolFrank's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The only effective difference is that someone else pays with gold for their subscription, rather than money.
    For the one who buys the token on the store, nothing is that different beyond the risk of getting banned being gone.

    But it also needs to be said that Blizzard takes a sizeable chunk out of that, 20€ for 1 month game time vs. 13€ a regular sub, that ~50% sure as shit isn't there to cover the extra expenses from them implementing the WoW Token.

    They're free to lower the prices on WoW Tokens, it would make them more competitive with RMT'ers and thus drive a lot more of them out of the business.

    I said it earlier in this thread, you get roughly 50% more gold when you buy it on the Black market.
    And 50% is a number that speaks for itself in my book.
    That's actually true. If they want to truly combat RMT, they really need to monitor gold selling sites, and formulate their exchange rates based on those trends. Even if they weren't genuine, minimizing their profits will be the only way to get rid of them.
  1. varren's Avatar
    "It reduces RMT"

    "Here, have our version of RMT"

    circus
  1. Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Sort of apples and oranges because we are comparing two instances of time separated by 10 years and with different player habits as well.

    Just as there's a cat and mouse game with botters, the same relationship exists with 3rd party sellers. For a person already buying gold who hasn't been hassled by the process there's no incentive to start buying gold from Blizzard for 2x the price they are getting it at now.
    The same thing was true of wod and even buying gold on retail right now. Some people will keep buying from sites, some of those will get caught, some will not want to risk it again when they get unbanned, and some will just swap to legit means.

    The market will shrink some gold sellers will shut down others will keep going with lesser profits.

    It’s just a repeat of history.
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The only effective difference is that someone else pays with gold for their subscription, rather than money.
    For the one who buys the token on the store, nothing is that different beyond the risk of getting banned being gone.

    But it also needs to be said that Blizzard takes a sizeable chunk out of that, 20€ for 1 month game time vs. 13€ a regular sub, that ~50% sure as shit isn't there to cover the extra expenses from them implementing the WoW Token.

    They're free to lower the prices on WoW Tokens, it would make them more competitive with RMT'ers and thus drive a lot more of them out of the business.

    I said it earlier in this thread, you get roughly 50% more gold when you buy it on the Black market.
    And 50% is a number that speaks for itself in my book.
    Are you unironically suggesting that Blizzard make WoW tokens less expensive than the subscription cost itself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LolFrank View Post
    That's actually true. If they want to truly combat RMT, they really need to monitor gold selling sites, and formulate their exchange rates based on those trends. Even if they weren't genuine, minimizing their profits will be the only way to get rid of them.
    Making the WoW token cheaper than the actual subscription itself would kinda undermine the whole purpose of the subscription cost. This is not the way.
  1. Khaza-R's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The same thing was true of wod and even buying gold on retail right now. Some people will keep buying from sites, some of those will get caught, some will not want to risk it again when they get unbanned, and some will just swap to legit means.

    The market will shrink some gold sellers will shut down others will keep going with lesser profits.

    It’s just a repeat of history.
    You're free to believe that. It won't be the case because the market evolves as well. Just like it has since 2013.

    Buy hey, you're free to save my post and come back to tell you were right by the end of WotLKC.
  1. Sensa1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Humans can also make mistakes and if there's even a single false positive then players will demand for there to be an appeal process. Now the botters have an easy way to slow down the bot swatting process by appealing every fucking ban. And if they deny the appeal for a legitimate character who got swatted then they have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
    Not sure what you are talking about here. There's already an appeal process in place and there have been countless "false" positives over the last 15 years. Additionally, appealing a ban does little or nothing to slow down the banning process and fake accounts / bots are unlikely to appeal anyway because it actually would give Blizzard an even better chance to detect networks of bots. Once again your desire to be Blizzard's self-described MMO Champ defender has clouded your judgement.
  1. dandan's Avatar
    It's crazy how they treat illegal RMT and "legal" RMT as completely different things. It doesn't become OK just because it's official and Blizzard gets a cut on the transaction, it's the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LolFrank View Post
    That's actually true. If they want to truly combat RMT, they really need to monitor gold selling sites, and formulate their exchange rates based on those trends. Even if they weren't genuine, minimizing their profits will be the only way to get rid of them.
    Nope. If they want to truly combat RMT, they will ban people who buy. As long as there is a demand, there will be a lot of people trying to make it profitable, and Blizzard can't keep up. Offering their own brand of RMT doesn't combat RMT, it only increases it.
  1. Skylarking's Avatar
    It's pretty simple really. Can blizzard stop the botting? Yes. Will they invest the time and money into it? No. Their automated systems are clearly not working which means this issue can most likely only be solved with more boots on the ground, so to speak. But they aren't gonna invest in more GMs.
  1. Feeline10's Avatar
    "iterating and innovating on a nearly daily basis.."

    Laying it on kind of thick here. They're usually good at these blue posts, but this is a bit much.

    Edit: The entire post is Blizzard humble-bragging about their subscriber levels / player engagement. They could be a little less transparent, could they not?
  1. Tojara's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    It's pretty simple really. Can blizzard stop the botting? Yes. Will they invest the time and money into it? No. Their automated systems are clearly not working which means this issue can most likely only be solved with more boots on the ground, so to speak. But they aren't gonna invest in more GMs.
    They really can't. Just like you can't stop people from doing illegal things because nobody is going to allocate infinite resources into stopping it. You use the most efficient and cost effective ways to minimalize it, and in some instances you make a 'safer' legalized version of it. It's almost like legalizing drugs in some countries to make a genuine comparison. You going to stop people from growing weed, or buying it from illegal non-sanctioned distributers for a lower cost? No. Are you going to cut into some of that market for less risk adverse people? Yes.

    Blizzard is an apt comparison to a government that just made something illegal, legal but only when sanctioned by them. They get money for doing it and while it's a bit more expensive it comes with the freedom of zero risks.

    You can hire millions of cops and crimes are still going to be committed lol.

    This isn't a defense of Blizzard either. As long as there's a way for people to make money from the game they're just going to do it, it's really that simple.
  1. Kralljin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Are you unironically suggesting that Blizzard make WoW tokens less expensive than the subscription cost itself?
    There's lots of numbers to choose from between 13 and 20.
    Say the Token price would be at 15€, then you'd pay ~1,6€ per 1k gold (if we stick with the 9k gold per token from earlier), which is fairly close to the rate of ~1,4€ per 1k gold on some RMT sites.

    The big crux however is, it would massively cut into their profit marigin of the WoW token, whether some people pay 15€ instead of 20€ makes quite the difference very quickly.
  1. Gorsameth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dandan View Post
    It's crazy how they treat illegal RMT and "legal" RMT as completely different things. It doesn't become OK just because it's official and Blizzard gets a cut on the transaction, it's the same thing.



    Nope. If they want to truly combat RMT, they will ban people who buy. As long as there is a demand, there will be a lot of people trying to make it profitable, and Blizzard can't keep up. Offering their own brand of RMT doesn't combat RMT, it only increases it.
    They are different things. legal RMT doesn't involve account theft and stolen credit cards, which creates a lot of behind the scenes work for Blizzard that you don't see.
  1. Zodiark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Personally I could get two flying F's if they sold the tokens, what pisses me off it they went on some BS about some Pillars how classic will will be and how they won't put in original (but did put in number of retail ideas) wrath systems because of said pillars (systems that on the crap lopsided server I had started on would have made the game more playable), and as soon as they hit a bump that hurts them or is hard for them to solve, whoosh right out the window with the pillars crap....
    Yeah well the idea that you and others had that somehow you would realistically be able to relive those classic moments and times in a vacuum was folly on yours and their parts. The QoL features and systems that have been iterated on over the years were more or less a natural evolution of the game. This whole #NOCHANGES BS was foolish in the first place. RMT and botters weren't going to automatically throw up their hands and say "you know what, the quality and integrity of the classic game needs to be maintained we are just going to back away and let you guys enjoy a pristine experience".

    The systems and quality of life features were a necessity to keep the game growing and viable over the years. WoW would have been a much more niche' game had they kept things exactly what they were in classic. I myself wouldn't have stayed with it for almost 20 years now.

    To address one of your concerns though I think Blizzard should have merged more severs together or at least linked them together from much earlier on so that way no one would feel like they are playing on a "crap server" devoid of life and activity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    They really can't. Just like you can't stop people from doing illegal things because nobody is going to allocate infinite resources into stopping it. You use the most efficient and cost effective ways to minimalize it, and in some instances you make a 'safer' legalized version of it. It's almost like legalizing drugs in some countries to make a genuine comparison. You going to stop people from growing weed, or buying it from illegal non-sanctioned distributers for a lower cost? No. Are you going to cut into some of that market for less risk adverse people? Yes.

    Blizzard is an apt comparison to a government that just made something illegal, legal but only when sanctioned by them. They get money for doing it and while it's a bit more expensive it comes with the freedom of zero risks.

    You can hire millions of cops and crimes are still going to be committed lol.

    This isn't a defense of Blizzard either. As long as there's a way for people to make money from the game they're just going to do it, it's really that simple.
    I don't see that. I feel like people learn about these new trendy terms like "humble bragging", then try to use them whenever possible and start seeing these types of actions everywhere. Like when back in the 50's everyone was a communist.

    Blizzard was just sharing what they are doing on their end a bit to make it more transparent that they ARE working on combating RMT and the actors that engage in it. I have a business myself and know that even when you TELL people the reasosns WHY issues arise and come up, people are still going to point fingers and cast blame because people want what they want when they want it and anything else is unacceptable and will raise their ire and consternation no matter what you say.

    This usually brings me to the thought, "what good is honesty when it brings no good?" Then I say to hell with it, this is what it is and I'm just doing what I consider right and to hell where the chips land.
  1. Hexian's Avatar
    Lol, I am so glad I left classic when I did. Blizzard was lying to our faces at every turn about trying to uphold the true feeling of classic. And now they try to stealth sneak in the token and afterwards post a block of bs claiming it’s the only way to combat the bots.

    They know this dumpster fire of a game is going downhill, especially when Cata arrives, and now it is just turning into a raging inferno. They are just trying to milk the last sad monetary ounce of everybody before it all implodes.
  1. Tojara's Avatar
    I don't see it as necessarily a bad thing BTW. Obviously they make more money from doing this, but they potentially take risk adverse people who were buying gold into their ecosystem. It does have the unnecessary side effect of getting some people who never bought gold to begin with (because of risk) to actually buy it because it's legal. No numbers because there's no hard data and citing something would be stupid on my part. Things that were illegal before with risks that are suddenly made legal doesn't mean loads of people are suddenly going to buy gold.

    It absolutely will cut into botting and people selling for RL money. How much? I have absolute zero clue. What it will do is push some bots and black market sales from happening as it won't be cost effective as it once was. Some will absolutely adapt and be forced to offer lower prices, or will adapt like they always do and find ways to circumvent ban waves or account closures like they always do.

    For me I still won't buy gold with the token, and never have. It does offer me compensation for my time in WoTLK (I play retail and classic) when I decide I'm no longer having fun in WoTLK by purchasing subscription time. I fully expect GDKPs to be way less prevalent in Cata/MoP like they were originally if they decide to go forward with it post WoTLK, making gold pointless. 10/25 man having the same lockouts, having the same gear, 10 man being easier to organize and the game just being a bit more difficult (with every patch, even with solved content) points to gold not maintaining it's value like it does in currently WoTLK.

    But again, that fixation on gold and purchasing power in WoTLK only really applies to players that participate in GDKPs to begin with. If you play classic the 'intended' way, you would just play in a guild and gold being absolutely useless.

Site Navigation