World First Mythic Smolderon by Liquid - Amirdrassil Race to World First

10 signets and 9 of them are heroic, lol

how the f are people 475 ilvl? Do they do heroic raids and pass all the gear to 1 dude ?

Originally Posted by meheez

how the f are people 475 ilvl? Do they do heroic raids and pass all the gear to 1 dude ?

More or less, didn't they run like 30 split raids?

I don't get why this is really even considered something amazing. So all these competitive groups run the hell out of heroic with random alts to push all the gear to their "mains" and then zerg into mythic when by this point in the game you shouldn't have that many people with their 4pcs yet if any at all. It actually takes a lot of the skill out of it. Most groups that would be trying to run mythic raid wouldn't even be attempting it yet or if they were they'd be lucky to have 2-3 players with their 2pc.....

Originally Posted by meheez

how the f are people 475 ilvl? Do they do heroic raids and pass all the gear to 1 dude ?

Im pretty sure their firsrt 2-3 days was all splits and M+ and helpers to pass on gear.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

I don't get why this is really even considered something amazing. So all these competitive groups run the hell out of heroic with random alts to push all the gear to their "mains" and then zerg into mythic when by this point in the game you shouldn't have that many people with their 4pcs yet if any at all. It actually takes a lot of the skill out of it. Most groups that would be trying to run mythic raid wouldn't even be attempting it yet or if they were they'd be lucky to have 2-3 players with their 2pc.....

Yes, basically they do the 1-2 months worth of farming by playing a few days non-stop.
And it's fine.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

I don't get why this is really even considered something amazing. So all these competitive groups run the hell out of heroic with random alts to push all the gear to their "mains" and then zerg into mythic when by this point in the game you shouldn't have that many people with their 4pcs yet if any at all. It actually takes a lot of the skill out of it. Most groups that would be trying to run mythic raid wouldn't even be attempting it yet or if they were they'd be lucky to have 2-3 players with their 2pc.....

These guilds were still the top of the raiding foodchain before splits became meta.
I don't think you fully appreciate how hard that fight is, even with a full ilvl 475 raidgroup.

Originally Posted by vulfrika

These guilds were still the top of the raiding foodchain before splits became meta.
I don't think you fully appreciate how hard that fight is, even with a full ilvl 475 raidgroup.

Ohhh I know its hard.. I'll never see it. I'm just saying its not like the old days where it would take you forever to gear up your raid team (even when you could set to master looter). How can you really brag about being "world first" or "the best" if you run insane amounts of alt heroic raids to funnel the gear into the few main players that are in those raids. Its like going into the game with all the cheat codes and then bragging about beating it. Plus the fact that this must be those guys jobs because how you could have the time to actually run that many raids in such a short time is beyond me. They really should have two different categories for World First... those that literally raid as a job and earn a living through streams and such, and those that actually have real lives with real jobs.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

Ohhh I know its hard.. I'll never see it. I'm just saying its not like the old days where it would take you forever to gear up your raid team (even when you could set to master looter). How can you really brag about being "world first" or "the best" if you run insane amounts of alt heroic raids to funnel the gear into the few main players that are in those raids. Its like going into the game with all the cheat codes and then bragging about beating it. Plus the fact that this must be those guys jobs because how you could have the time to actually run that many raids in such a short time is beyond me. They really should have two different categories for World First... those that literally raid as a job and earn a living through streams and such, and those that actually have real lives with real jobs.

You brag in the exact same way that Nihilum did back in TBC when they started to day raid and did it 7 days a week. Clearly unfair to the guilds that only raided 4 hours for 5 days.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

Ohhh I know its hard.. I'll never see it. I'm just saying its not like the old days where it would take you forever to gear up your raid team (even when you could set to master looter). How can you really brag about being "world first" or "the best" if you run insane amounts of alt heroic raids to funnel the gear into the few main players that are in those raids. Its like going into the game with all the cheat codes and then bragging about beating it. Plus the fact that this must be those guys jobs because how you could have the time to actually run that many raids in such a short time is beyond me. They really should have two different categories for World First... those that literally raid as a job and earn a living through streams and such, and those that actually have real lives with real jobs.

I’m getting major Karen vibes from this post

Originally Posted by vulfrika

These guilds were still the top of the raiding foodchain before splits became meta.
I don't think you fully appreciate how hard that fight is, even with a full ilvl 475 raidgroup.

This is something that's been analyzed going back a long time, but it's less about the difficulty of the fight and way more about the amount of attempts it takes to learn the fight. You'll find that across the entire mythic raiding guild spectrum that the number of attempts it takes a guild to clear a boss averages out to about the same, whether they're a RWF guild or a mid-tier mythic guild. Also trends that it takes less attempts to learn with higher ilvl, as it allows you to shave off attempts by having slightly higher DPS or higher survivability, so as the raiding tier ages, the average ilvl of players rise and the amount of attempts on a boss drops proportionally. So at the start of the tier, most people clearing the encounters take roughly the same amount of attempts, and further down the line the number of attempts drops as people get more gear. The main reason that people aren't all clearing the content at the same rate despite needing the same number of attempts is just the amount of time they can dedicate to raiding per day/week.

So what does that mean? What really separates RWF guilds from everyone else is the amount of time they front load into the raid, that's it. Yes, they have skilled players, but I think people really overestimate the skill difference because RWF guilds attract roughly the same level of skilled people... but you'll find equally or even more skilled people in lesser guilds. So why aren't these equal or more skilled people in RWF guilds? Usually they don't want the time commitment, they just don't like the general atmosphere that comes with raiding at a high level, or they just don't want to take the game seriously. I've know some insanely skilled people that just want to play casually because it's more fun for them. I've had the pleasure of raiding (and doing CMs/M+) with such people before, and when you start raiding at a high enough level you get to the point where you'll have friends and acquaintences in these higher tier and RWF guilds because they're all really similar when it comes to the type and skill of players.

Probably the best execution and tightest boss I've ever seen. Good job Liquid.

Originally Posted by Eazy

10 signets and 9 of them are heroic, lol

That sadge.

Originally Posted by vulfrika

These guilds were still the top of the raiding foodchain before splits became meta.

so you are saying that there is some gate to enter this race? not related to the skill gate to this "top"
I really hope that at least their ten thousands viewers are real

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

I don't get why this is really even considered something amazing. So all these competitive groups run the hell out of heroic with random alts to push all the gear to their "mains" and then zerg into mythic when by this point in the game you shouldn't have that many people with their 4pcs yet if any at all. It actually takes a lot of the skill out of it. Most groups that would be trying to run mythic raid wouldn't even be attempting it yet or if they were they'd be lucky to have 2-3 players with their 2pc.....

Seems like you just explained it to yourself while being confused about it.

Originally Posted by vulfrika

These guilds were still the top of the raiding foodchain before splits became meta.
I don't think you fully appreciate how hard that fight is, even with a full ilvl 475 raidgroup.

Please. Every single expansion world first kill had higher ilvl than we had after several months. It's been like that forever, it was a myth that they were doing them in blues.
Nobody saying they are not good, because they are, but the "race" is and always was irrelevant since they are working there, they are actual professionals and what they do has nothing to do with what we do. It was always degenerate gameplay and access to resources only real money can buy.

Originally Posted by MrLachyG

I’m getting major Karen vibes from this post

Oh stop with that Karen BS. To be a Karen requires you to feel like your entitled to something. Look it's either you have a passion for making the game your life and rely on streaming to subsidize your income, or you don't. I think it would be kind of cool if they made some rules to follow like No matter who you are or what you do you can only get one attempt at the raid per week per guild and the time limit was made to 4 hours max for the dungeon wing. Also no one could trade raid drops period. When you don't have rules and limits then it just encourages people to no life content till they beat it. But video game companies rely on these races as they are and their streaming coverage for advertising. Part of capitalism.

That being said, things aren't going to change. If people enjoy that sort of thing then that's cool, if not then they should just ignore it.
Problem with that is some people are just a little bitter that they got older and don't have the time and energy to play competitively or for long hours anymore.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Madmartegan

I don't get why this is really even considered something amazing. .

the truth is...it's not. this stuff is old and tired.

Originally Posted by Loveliest

Please. Every single expansion world first kill had higher ilvl than we had after several months. It's been like that forever, it was a myth that they were doing them in blues.
Nobody saying they are not good, because they are, but the "race" is and always was irrelevant since they are working there, they are actual professionals and what they do has nothing to do with what we do. It was always degenerate gameplay and access to resources only real money can buy.

100% agree, just like any other professional they have a job to do. The race will come down to either more gearing Tuesday, Class swaps or nerfs. Doesnt even look like most of them are even having fun anymore. its a job, nothing more.

Originally Posted by exochaft

This is something that's been analyzed going back a long time, but it's less about the difficulty of the fight and way more about the amount of attempts it takes to learn the fight. You'll find that across the entire mythic raiding guild spectrum that the number of attempts it takes a guild to clear a boss averages out to about the same, whether they're a RWF guild or a mid-tier mythic guild. Also trends that it takes less attempts to learn with higher ilvl, as it allows you to shave off attempts by having slightly higher DPS or higher survivability, so as the raiding tier ages, the average ilvl of players rise and the amount of attempts on a boss drops proportionally. So at the start of the tier, most people clearing the encounters take roughly the same amount of attempts, and further down the line the number of attempts drops as people get more gear. The main reason that people aren't all clearing the content at the same rate despite needing the same number of attempts is just the amount of time they can dedicate to raiding per day/week.

So what does that mean? What really separates RWF guilds from everyone else is the amount of time they front load into the raid, that's it. Yes, they have skilled players, but I think people really overestimate the skill difference because RWF guilds attract roughly the same level of skilled people... but you'll find equally or even more skilled people in lesser guilds. So why aren't these equal or more skilled people in RWF guilds? Usually they don't want the time commitment, they just don't like the general atmosphere that comes with raiding at a high level, or they just don't want to take the game seriously. I've know some insanely skilled people that just want to play casually because it's more fun for them. I've had the pleasure of raiding (and doing CMs/M+) with such people before, and when you start raiding at a high enough level you get to the point where you'll have friends and acquaintences in these higher tier and RWF guilds because they're all really similar when it comes to the type and skill of players.

Not to be mean, but if you don't think there is a skill difference between going in completely blind, having to invent every tactic and figure every mechanic out, with 473 ilvl, downing the boss in 50 attempts, and going in after having watched several guides and kills, with 483 ilvl, downing the boss in 50 attempts, I think you need to rethink your outlook on this.