Blizzard on Rare Elites in Zaralek Caverns and Forbidden Reach
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
We’ve been closely reading your feedback about the recent changes to rare elite creatures in Zaralek Caverns and Forbidden Reach. A number of you have asked why we made this change, so we want to give some more explanation. We can also share a bit about what might happen next.



(We’ll use Zaralek Caverns as the example for this explanation, but all points also apply to Forbidden Reach.)

As shown above, the Zaralek Caverns map regularly displayed 12-15 rare elite enemies available to kill at any given time. This was not an occasional jackpot moment. It was the default state of the zone for most players who came along. Because of this, we regularly saw players who might want to take down those rare elites, but they and other players were scattered around the zone. Due to the sheer number of different spawn points, players simply wouldn’t come across other players who were looking to fight the same rare, even in Group Finder. Yesterday’s hotfix was a step that we’re taking to focus attention on fewer rares at a time and encourage the glorious murderballs that we all know and love.

We’ve absolutely heard your feedback that this feels like a quality-of-life reduction, particularly if you’re hunting specific rare elites for rare cosmetic drops. We’re considering a couple of additional changes to address this:

  • We recently found an issue that was causing zones like Zaralek Caverns to be underpopulated. We’re working on a hotfix for that, and once we’ve deployed the fix, you should start seeing more players and have an easier time finding others to group with.
  • We’re planning to adjust the droprates of some rare cosmetics that come from these creatures. More details on that should be coming soon.

Thanks as always for your feedback; keep it coming!
This article was originally published in forum thread: Blizzard on Rare Elites in Zaralek Caverns and Forbidden Reach started by Lumy View original post
Comments 100 Comments
  1. Sentynel's Avatar
    Hope they adjust Karokta. That mount shouldn't be a 0.5% chance per 4 days per char.
  1. Railander's Avatar
    why not just nerf the rares instead, some are actually unsoloable (such as the big crystal elemental for casters).
  1. Daedius's Avatar
    Just reduce their HP, and up their spawn rate frequency, ffs.

    Sounds like they want to cross phase the zone further more, less phasing having more people in the zone... then you'll have the issue of never seeing rares up. /yay
  1. FelPlague's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Just reduce their HP, and up their spawn rate frequency, ffs.

    Sounds like they want to cross phase the zone further more, less phasing having more people in the zone... then you'll have the issue of never seeing rares up. /yay
    They want people to work together to kill rares, not just solo them, that is why they are marked zone wide, if they wanted people to solo them they wouldn't be marked. Kinda the point, but issue was the difficulty of finding people to help kill these mobs, this is them trying to fix that, but it really likely wont.
  1. Tasandriel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Just reduce their HP, and up their spawn rate frequency, ffs.

    Sounds like they want to cross phase the zone further more, less phasing having more people in the zone... then you'll have the issue of never seeing rares up. /yay

    This...

    Why do they always need to try and reinvent the wheel??
    Rares in the Emerald Dream zone aren't stupidly overpowered, and neither are other rares in other zones. Just the ones in Zaralek.
  1. NatePsy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They want people to work together to kill rares, not just solo them
    And look how well that's going. If it's content from a previous patch, the rares should be nerfed. That's the problem, Zaralek is content from the previous patch so traffic is close to non-existent as most the traffic moved up to the Emerald Dream. Rare Elites that require groups only really works when the content is current.

    I'm on a relatively big server and I just started playing again recently after almost a year hiatus, so I wanted to do these rare elites but gave up because I couldn't find others to help kill these rares, so it was like "Well shit, guess I'll just go do stuff in Emerald Dream." That's a major problem, they've effectively excluded a portion of the player-base that hadn't played it when it was current and prevented them from accessing these cosmetics/toys/mounts because they weren't there when it was current.
  1. Locruid's Avatar
    Does Blizz even remember their own work? I seem to recall MANY elite rares were downsized so players could fight them easier solo since there wasnt a whole lot of group activity going on. Now here we are several years later and the group activity is even WORSE but nah, lets make NPCS that require a couple peoople to kill
  1. Ladey Gags's Avatar
    typical goddamn blizzard. ANYTHING but what we ask for. ANYTHING but appeasing the customers. ANYTHING but listening to the community. these dev's heads are so far up their own asses their eyeballs are caked in shit. what the fuck man? ANYTHING but giving them what they want.

    JUST

    NERF

    THE

    RARES

    i cant stand these devs. i literlaly cannot stand them. i just cant fathom why these devs are so adamant on not giving the playerbase what they ask for. why? just why? don't you want people to respect you?dont you want your customers to like you? do these devs literally get off on trolling their playerbase? i just can't get it. i just cant grasp it. the level of narcicissm "you thinik you do but you dont" in these devs thick skulls is just completely off the charts. i just dont get it
  1. MrLachyG's Avatar
    what they should do: reduce ALL RARES HP to 1 million, so they are soloable. then if someone else tags, use that wonderful scaling technology that we know that they have to increase the health of the rare. Problem solved.
  1. NatePsy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    what they should do: reduce ALL RARES HP to 1 million, so they are soloable. then if someone else tags, use that wonderful scaling technology that we know that they have to increase the health of the rare. Problem solved.
    They could, but they won't. Why would they make you work less for something so trivial? Engagement metrics baby. It's the same reason why they stopped with the huge damage modifier that would kick in once a raid was from two expansions ago. They want you to spend more time in the game. Go to a raid from, say, MoP or Cata, you'll see huge numbers, then go to a raid from Legion or BFA, you'll see your usual damage. It's at around that time they stopped implementing the damage modifier.

    It's just Trademark Blizzard being stubborn.
  1. kranur's Avatar
    That much thought when you can just nerf them lol. They were meaningless when the patch was current and they don't matter for shit now, except for achievement chore ticking.
    Would have literally taken less time to adjust their hp than to write that post. Jesus fuck.
  1. Lucetia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They want people to work together to kill rares, not just solo them, that is why they are marked zone wide, if they wanted people to solo them they wouldn't be marked. Kinda the point, but issue was the difficulty of finding people to help kill these mobs, this is them trying to fix that, but it really likely wont.
    You are only partially right. They want people to work together, but their health should not be this high. In fact they weren't when originally launched and they upped it because too many players were killing them and some weren't able to make it to it in time (see previous blue post around both launches). So instead of nerfing them back to their original values they left them as is. There is no reason the old world rares, Forbidden Reach or Caverns should have 10M+ rare mobs. Emerald Dream is a bit different due to it being the "relevant" one and many are in that zone.
  1. Snowfunk's Avatar
    Just fix the bloated raid boss hp pool of these shitty rares....
  1. Daedius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They want people to work together to kill rares, not just solo them, that is why they are marked zone wide, if they wanted people to solo them they wouldn't be marked. Kinda the point, but issue was the difficulty of finding people to help kill these mobs, this is them trying to fix that, but it really likely wont.
    The zone's a ghost town besides people after Karokta or the world boss Elders... literally everything else people ignore.

    Rares to be grouped for should only be so for current content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    You are only partially right. They want people to work together, but their health should not be this high. In fact they weren't when originally launched and they upped it because too many players were killing them and some weren't able to make it to it in time (see previous blue post around both launches). So instead of nerfing them back to their original values they left them as is. There is no reason the old world rares, Forbidden Reach or Caverns should have 10M+ rare mobs. Emerald Dream is a bit different due to it being the "relevant" one and many are in that zone.
    They should give all rares the Dream Surge treatment: zone wide announcement ("empowered") and is immune to damage for awhile to give people time to get there.
  1. Kathranis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    They should give all rares the Dream Surge treatment: zone wide announcement ("empowered") and is immune to damage for awhile to give people time to get there.
    Also how Korthia worked, and it worked extremely well. I know people were down on SL and that patch, but they did a great job on that zone IMO. Lots of stuff to farm, kept the zone heavily populated, and lots of different enemies and activities in rotation to keep you busy while you're there.
  1. MrLachyG's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    They should give all rares the Dream Surge treatment: zone wide announcement ("empowered") and is immune to damage for awhile to give people time to get there.
    they do. the notification is sent out, but they don't spawn for a couple of minutes. One of the Niffen have "sniffed" their impending arrival out and so gives a bit of forewarning.
  1. Powerogue's Avatar
    Hopefully adjusting the droprates helps make up for the fact I played that entire patch and didn't get most of the manuscripts off the rares, even with groups that would just be like "all the rares" and we'd go around and kill each one in order which will be harder to do now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    They should give all rares the Dream Surge treatment: zone wide announcement ("empowered") and is immune to damage for awhile to give people time to get there.
    YES. This and the "do a small event and then the boss will spawn" in Emerald Dream is how rares should work.
  1. Unlimited Power's Avatar
    I've been in Zaralek Caverns when it's supposedly "active". That just means Karokta gets killed on spawn and everything else left up. I'm curious what effect their supposed population fix will have, but I remain doubtful that these rares will get killed when they spawn.

    The only real solution is to make them soloable within a reasonable timeframe and by non-pet/tank classes.
  1. Lucetia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    they do. the notification is sent out, but they don't spawn for a couple of minutes. One of the Niffen have "sniffed" their impending arrival out and so gives a bit of forewarning.
    The only problem with this is that they write it out in an entire sentence so you have to guess who it is unless you memorized it. Dreamsurge is just "X is empowered" and you know who / where to look for without deciphering the sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    I've been in Zaralek Caverns when it's supposedly "active". That just means Karokta gets killed on spawn and everything else left up. I'm curious what effect their supposed population fix will have, but I remain doubtful that these rares will get killed when they spawn.

    The only real solution is to make them soloable within a reasonable timeframe and by non-pet/tank classes.
    Mainly because most are useless to kill or you get their items super quick. The mount has way too low of a chance. Several of the rares I've seen and went "nope got the items I'm good". Whereas if it had a lot less health might be worth killing but even then I'm not running low on supplies/flightstones to actually attempt wasting my time.
  1. Harrold's Avatar
    Feels like a blizzard not learning the actual lesson taught moment.

    I think they want a zone to remain as popular as ZM and whatever that other maw zone was that wasn't the maw.

    The lesson there was high quality cosmetics will encourage people to stick around. What blizzard actually learned was they think people want boring mobs that take ages to kill if you are geared and unkillable if not

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