The War Within: Dungeon and Affix Updates
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Greetings!

With The War Within beta now underway, we are excited to share additional updates regarding dungeons and the affix system.

Heroic & Mythic Dungeons

In Dragonflight Season 4, we experimented with our existing dungeon difficulty progression to offer additional endgame options for players who enjoy more methodical dungeon gameplay. This updated dungeon difficulty progression is also an opportunity for players that do enjoy Mythic Keystones to have a place to build mastery over dungeons before the pressures of a timer kick in. You can read more about those changes in depth here. We plan to continue this model of progression into The War Within with some exciting updates!

  • Normal
    • This difficulty is unchanged.
    • This difficulty always includes our 8 War Within dungeons.
  • Heroic
    • The tuning and rewards of this difficulty are increasing to be equivalent to a baseline Mythic (Mythic 0) dungeon in the previous system.
    • New mechanics and other adjustments from Mythic will not be present in this difficulty.
    • This remains a queueable experience.
    • Starting with Season 1 of The War Within, Heroic dungeon difficulty will feature our roster of seasonal dungeons.
  • Mythic
    • The tuning and rewards of this difficulty are increasing to the equivalent of a +10 dungeon with affixes in the previous system.
    • There are no timers, affixes, or limitations on changing specializations or talents while in the dungeon.
    • The goal is to create a mega-dungeon like difficulty for this experience. This difficulty should present a meaningful challenge and provide commensurate rewards without the pressure of the Mythic+ system.
    • Starting with Season 1 of The War Within, Mythic difficulty will feature our roster of seasonal dungeons.
    • Mythic difficulty will be unavailable until with the War Within Season 1 begins.
    • Mythic difficulty will now have a daily lockout, changed from weekly in the previous system.

The seasonal dungeon roster for Heroic, Mythic, and Mythic+ difficulties in Season 1 of The War Within includes the following dungeons:

  • The Stonevault
  • The Dawnbreaker
  • Ara-Kara, City of Echoes
  • City of Threads
  • Grim Batol
  • The Necrotic Wake
  • Mists of Tirna Scithe
  • Siege of Boralus

Mythic+

The Mythic Keystone system will carry forward changes from Dragonflight Season 4 with updates to the position of affixes in the system and updated affix buckets.

  • The Mythic+ system will have rewards up to level 10, with +2 starting from what would have been a +11 in the previous Mythic+ system.
  • A +5 should be as hard as a +15 and +10 should be as hard as a +20 in the previous Mythic+ system etc.
  • We intend to better align reward and difficulty increases in the Mythic+ system by updating the introduction points of affixes in Season 1 of The War Within.
    • +2 - Fortified/Tyrannical
    • +4 - A new set of passive affixes
    • +7 - Bursting / Bolstering etc.
  • Dungeon ratings should be equivalent to what they represent in the current system.
  • There should be a smaller range of Keystone levels to find groups for, and more meaningful progression between each level.

Affixes

Before we dive into the specifics of the new affixes, we would like to outline our goals and the purpose these affixes serve. Our overarching goal is to minimize the mechanical overlap between affixes and dungeon trash design in the current +4 affix bucket. We aim to achieve this through a more passive approach, focusing on the following objectives:

  • Shift the source of challenge to the dungeon itself by simplifying affix design and emphasizing creature abilities.
  • Reduce visual noise, nameplate clutter, and the cognitive load on players during trash combat.
  • Allow for varied and context-specific gameplay decisions depending on the dungeon they are applied to.

Additionally, these affixes will include a positive effect. The aim of these positive effects is to highlight different damage types each week, allowing each specialization additional opportunities to excel during the season.

  • These effects should feel like a bonus, offering an advantage for different damage profiles each week without being essential to complete a dungeon.
  • Players will have an opportunity to flex towards different talents, gearing options, and consumables to capitalize on these effects.

New Affixes

  • Reckless
    • Non-boss enemies without mana ignore 20% armor with their attacks, but their armor is reduced by 30% and they take 10% increased Arcane damage.
  • Thorned
    • Non-boss enemies without mana inflict Physical damage to their attackers when attacked, but take 10% increased Holy and Shadow damage.
  • Attuned
    • Non-boss enemies with mana inflict 20% increased magic damage, but take 10% increased Nature damage and 30% increased damage from Bleed effects.
  • Focused
    • Non-boss enemies with mana have 30% increased Haste, but take 10% increased Frost and Fire damage.

Note that these tooltips indicate whether the affixes apply to creatures with or without mana. These affixes will not affect every creature.

With our new passive affix bucket set to replace the current +4 affix bucket, the following affixes will be retired for Season 1 of The War Within:

  • Afflicted
  • Incorporeal
  • Entangling
  • Storming
  • Volcanic

To match the number of affixes in our level 4 affix bucket and align with our affix goals in The War Within we will be retiring the Spiteful affix for Season 1 of The War Within. The +7 affix bucket includes the following:

  • Raging
  • Bolstering
  • Bursting
  • Sanguine

Tyrannical and Fortified Affixes

We are still experimenting with how these affixes fit in with our updates.

We believe these changes will offer a refreshing experience for players at all levels each season and redefine how the Mythic+ affix system influences dungeon gameplay. We look forward to your feedback and discussions on these topics and we’ll see you in dungeons!
This article was originally published in forum thread: The War Within: Dungeon and Affix Updates started by Lumy View original post
Comments 80 Comments
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Ofc its not necessary, the Problem ist that all the idiots out there it is.
    There always was something "necessary", so stop fretting about it. What changes? The reason of being necessary?
    What's the practical difference between being "necessary", because your class is - theoretically - top damage without the affix buff; vs being necessary for the exact same reason with the affix buff?
  1. Amerissis's Avatar
    Does this mean that mythic (the non plus variety) is finally queueable too? So I can finally get those weeklies done that needs 5 mythics?
  1. Eapoe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    But this is not how you make a comp for a high key, is it? You need essentials like lust, battle rez, certain abilities for certain weeks. And honestly, how great was comp variety for top pushers in every past season? DF s2 didn't need an affix to have every top comp look basically the same.

    On top, every season has a desirable comp and people playing the proper classes always have it easier to get an invite. This change to affixes doesn't change it in any meaningful way. It's simply an additional thing to consider when trying to come up with the optimal comp; but the desire to do that was always there. If anything, this can make the optimal comp change a bit week to week, which was not a thing in the past, where top comp was the same for the whole season (minus balance changes or specific things like Bursting needing a priest).
    I did differentiate that casuals, for low level keys, as well as the keys that would get you max level rewards, won’t have to worry about it. You can literally bring whatever you want to those keys and succeed once people get a little gear.
    As stated when it comes to comps, unless they are severely underperforming, these affixes pretty much lock in 2-3 specs as they get the benefit every week. As well as being decently performing. Something no other spec can do.
    In DF, the top comps with their little deviation could handle almost every affix. They didn’t need to swap around what class or spec they had (outside of a specific boss fight in some dungeons, or as you said, bursting).
    This is goin g to just add another level of frustration because players will think they need specific things every week, and everyone who doesn’t meet that criteria will be ticked off about it.
    Its just not necessary.
  1. Relapses's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Ofc its not necessary, the Problem ist that all the idiots out there it is.
    Case in point, I just looked at the dungeon finder and there's no less than a dozen groups looking for lust for weekly +8s. These are groups that heavily out-gear the content and lust will have absolutely no bearing on whether they time the key. The LFG is full of retards and even though I think Blizzard's intent behind these Affixes is to lessen the impact of that retardation... in reality, it just signal boosts it.

    For the record, I do think something like this can work but they need to not be coy about it and just say "{x class} does more damage" or something to that effect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    Does this mean that mythic (the non plus variety) is finally queueable too? So I can finally get those weeklies done that needs 5 mythics?
    It depends -- what we used to call Mythic is now Heroic so if Blizzard updates the weekly quest to be "complete 4 Heroic or higher dungeons," then yes. You'll be able to queue it. But if they keep the quest text to require Mythic or higher then you'll still need to queue into the dungeon like you've done on live for eons (difference being that you can choose to do one of the throwback M+ dungeons on M0 if you that tickles your fancy).
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    As stated when it comes to comps, unless they are severely underperforming, these affixes pretty much lock in 2-3 specs as they get the benefit every week. As well as being decently performing. Something no other spec can do.
    I'd be careful with taking it for granted. It does seem weird that there are a few specs that would benefit from those changes more than any other, and this wasn't even properly tested yet; so I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard changes it the way that Chaos damage doesn't get the benefit. Obviously this is me theorycrafting, but it seems like the proper way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    In DF, the top comps with their little deviation could handle almost every affix. They didn’t need to swap around what class or spec they had (outside of a specific boss fight in some dungeons, or as you said, bursting).
    This is goin g to just add another level of frustration because players will think they need specific things every week, and everyone who doesn’t meet that criteria will be ticked off about it.
    Its just not necessary.
    So from this perspective, there being only one top comp (in perfect conditions) is a good thing? Obviously this a question of perspective. I was living under the impression that people do want more variety in top comps.
  1. Puri's Avatar
    I am not so sure if those affixes are a good idea for the health of the game.
    It's fine in organised groups that run m+ anyway.

    But this is going to be a real pain point for m+ pugging. Let's just assume hunters are already at the lower end of the assumed "viability" spectrum, and then you have "holy damage week". Have fun trying to get into a pug, when even group that normally would give the hunter a chance now will clearly prefer a paladin/priest.
  1. jk1895's Avatar
    Why do the morons always make the game even harder? It's hard enough! The majority of players can't cope with the current difficulty level and they can't think of anything better than to make it even harder! What losers!
  1. Hottage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I do think that as weeks go on, the classes with the strongest utility/survivability will be the pick. With the classes that get the extra damage with those things being even better.
    Also, as stated, the 3 specs that do Chaos damage (VDH, HDH, and Destro Lock) get the benefit every week, and Lock is always a solid choice, with DH reigning supreme for DF. So yeah, they’re pretty much a shoe in for these affixes. Both at the start of the season to get as close to an 8-10 key, and then later on for push keys.
    Do I think this affects the casual player? Not really, as bringing whatever you want has always held true for the maximum reward you can earn. For people interested in pushing, or early key farming, I do think the affix will affect how easy it is for some classes to get invited.
    Warlocks mostly use Rain of Fire on trash so it's not even a huge buff to them, and bosses (where you actually use Chaos Bolt) aren't afffected.

    Demon Hunters, already S++ tier in Mythic Keysstones, get a free 10% damage bufff on select trash mobs every week without needing to do anything.
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    But this is going to be a real pain point for m+ pugging. Let's just assume hunters are already at the lower end of the assumed "viability" spectrum, and then you have "holy damage week". Have fun trying to get into a pug, when even group that normally would give the hunter a chance now will clearly prefer a paladin/priest.
    I don't think this is how it currently works. Very rarely a group leader will think: "Okay, we have enough good classes, lets give a chance to this hunter playing the worst spec in the game". No, usually people will always try to make the group as strong as possible.

    If anything, they may take a hunter in the future, thinking: "Okay, it's a hunter week, so at least he does 10% damage more".
  1. Hottage's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    If anything, they may take a hunter in the future, thinking: "Okay, it's a hunter week, so at least he does 10% damage more".
    But which of these afffixes makes it "hunter week"?
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Hottage View Post
    But which of these afffixes makes it "hunter week"?
    I don't play DPS, so I'm not exactly sure, but reduced armor...?
    Anyway, hunter is just an example. I think you get the gist of my argument.
  1. Puri's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I don't think this is how it currently works. Very rarely a group leader will think: "Okay, we have enough good classes, lets give a chance to this hunter playing the worst spec in the game". No, usually people will always try to make the group as strong as possible.
    Yes sure, that's how it is. But yet you still could get a spot in a group if you tried enough. But now, in the weeks that won't favour you, your standing will even be worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hottage View Post
    But which of these afffixes makes it "hunter week"?
    Two actually, reduced armor and increased bleed damage. But it was simply an example.
  1. Railander's Avatar
    pure phys dmg specs in shambles (rip ww)
  1. Rageonit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Yes sure, that's how it is. But yet you still could get a spot in a group if you tried enough. But now, in the weeks that won't favour you, your standing will even be worse.
    I'm not sure why you think it will be like that. At the moment, only people of certain mindset will invite the worst spec - people who don't care about meta, because they know the group is more than capable to time the dungeon. The mindset of those people won't change with the affix. People who will care the most about the affix are the people who don't invite you anyway. So yeah, I think you're overreacting.
  1. Lahis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerissis View Post
    Does this mean that mythic (the non plus variety) is finally queueable too? So I can finally get those weeklies done that needs 5 mythics?
    No. Still need to do them manually.
  1. Trumpcat's Avatar
    Meta specs will be more meta on their buff weeks. Augmentation universally good on all weeks.

    Non meta specs will be more bad 3 weeks per month.

    Hats down, the combat team and whoever approved this design managed to once again over deliver.
  1. Melancolie's Avatar
    Those affixes are just the most idiotic, clueless, out of tune, ridiculous giant pile of poopy lameness i've ever seen.
  1. Dejiko's Avatar
    Why don`t they make affixes that reward performing well instead.
    Like enemies do more damage, but interrupt, stuns etc last longer on them when used.
    Players gaining a stacking damage buff when avoiding preventable damage.
  1. Twdft's Avatar
    Thorns? Really Blizzard, thorns? I seem to remember Blizzard saying mechanics requiring to stop dps are obsolete years ago.

    Also different vulneribilities sound nice on paper but Covenants being picked by what's best by almost everyone even players not doing any organized content shows that it will severely impact pugs too, not only high keys.
  1. Novaice's Avatar
    So why cant I play the all new dungeons at least at heroic level or (mythic 0)
    that seems dumb.

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