The War Within Season 2 - Undermine Crests Sources and Quality of Life Improvements

Haven't played wow in a long time, just popped in to see if anything interesting worth returning too. Holy what in the actual F is that currency? I thought BFA was bad but this is just on another level. Can we just go back to Justice, Valor, Conquest and Honor Points please

Arent Delves difficulty increasing on each level with the patch?

Originally Posted by cerebro

Haven't played wow in a long time, just popped in to see if anything interesting worth returning too. Holy what in the actual F is that currency? I thought BFA was bad but this is just on another level. Can we just go back to Justice, Valor, Conquest and Honor Points please

So think of them like valor ponts back in mists when you can upgrade gear that's legitimately all they are good for you get the level of crests from anything you can get that level of gear and you are able to trade up and down been there since Dragonflight

Originally Posted by Asrialol

Arent Delves difficulty increasing on each level with the patch?

Delves Tier 4 and higher will receive a difficulty increase with the launch of Season 2

Originally Posted by cerebro

Haven't played wow in a long time

It shows.

Originally Posted by cerebro

Holy what in the actual F is that currency? I thought BFA was bad but this is just on another level. Can we just go back to Justice, Valor, Conquest and Honor Points please

No, because this system is superior. I recommend playing the game before making a judgment.

Let's hope flight stones are more plentiful...

Originally Posted by Twdft

Let's hope flight stones are more plentiful...

Valorstone farming is so damn annoying

Originally Posted by Rageonit

It shows.



No, because this system is superior. I recommend playing the game before making a judgment.

Why not mix those two systems :
-Replace all crests or "stones" by a single badge currency (like in TBC), have a short and clear tooltip info saying what it does
-Keep the 0/8 upgrades, the better the gear, the more currency you need, the harder the content, the more currency you earn
-Replace all tracked gear usually epic by common/uncommon/rare/epic colors just like detailed in the post, with varying ilvl

Something like that, no need to add countless new sub-sub-sub types of items and dozens of currencies

There needs to be some strict limits on complexity, because now it just feels like employees coming and going, and just piling whatever makes sense for the day, without ever looking back, which creates a literal mess of a game (this is true not just for gearing)

The reality might be different but playing the game it really feels like there's a lack of strong lead observing the game long term that knows when to say no.

Originally Posted by Cæli

Why not mix those two systems :
-Replace all crests or "stones" by a single badge currency (like in TBC), have a short and clear tooltip info saying what it does
-Keep the 0/8 upgrades, the better the gear, the more currency you need, the harder the content, the more currency you earn
-Replace all tracked gear usually epic by common/uncommon/rare/epic colors just like detailed in the post, with varying ilvl

Something like that, no need to add countless new sub-sub-sub types of items and dozens of currencies

There needs to be some strict limits on complexity, because now it just feels like employees coming and going, and just piling whatever makes sense for the day, without ever looking back, which creates a literal mess of a game (this is true not just for gearing)

The reality might be different but playing the game it really feels like there's a lack of strong lead observing the game long term that knows when to say no.

Totally agree. Let's make epics epic again.

Originally Posted by Cæli

Why not mix those two systems :
-Replace all crests or "stones" by a single badge currency (like in TBC), have a short and clear tooltip info saying what it does
-Keep the 0/8 upgrades, the better the gear, the more currency you need, the harder the content, the more currency you earn
-Replace all tracked gear usually epic by common/uncommon/rare/epic colors just like detailed in the post, with varying ilvl

I'm afraid I'm unable to answer the "why not mix" question (as the answer would be something in the realms of: because), but we have different "tiers" of currency, because they don't want you to grind easier content to upgrade your gear; they want you to do more difficult content (attempt Mythic raids or higher levels of M+).

Originally Posted by cerebro

Holy what in the actual F is that currency? I thought BFA was bad but this is just on another level. Can we just go back to Justice, Valor, Conquest and Honor Points please

Trust me when you play the game it won't make a difference. The currency is still screwed and convoluted. But then again that is Blizzard, these days, in a nutshell. They like to make things complicated then after a expansion or two of people bitching about it then they change it. And it still might not be no better.

Originally Posted by Rageonit

I'm afraid I'm unable to answer the "why not mix" question (as the answer would be something in the realms of: because), but we have different "tiers" of currency, because they don't want you to grind easier content to upgrade your gear; they want you to do more difficult content (attempt Mythic raids or higher levels of M+).

Or you could just make it so that if someone want to upgrade their gear to a certain level they need to need to accomplish content at that gear level (it would be account wide too).

Example : let's say you have ilvl 150 and want to improve your gear over that if you don't do content tied to that level of power (Delves, M+, Raid) you won't be able to upgrade your gear past ilvl 150 using the pve currency.

Doing that would make the currency tab cleaner and if you truly want the gear and are too bad for it you can still pay for a boost.
By the way the fact that boosting is supported now in wow (a lot of player will mock you because you don't boost to speedrun the game) make all arguments to protect the "value" of loot moot, in wow it's not unusual to see bad players who don't even know what an interrupt is with Mythic gear level, so people farming lower content to upgrade their gear wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

We have way to many currencies . Plz blizz just make 1 currency for pvp, 1 for pve done. Why do I need to acquire 4 different new currencies each season!?!?!? Its bonkers how convoluted and bloated this currency system is.

Originally Posted by Cæli

Why not mix those two systems :
-Replace all crests or "stones" by a single badge currency (like in TBC), have a short and clear tooltip info saying what it does

Because that would have a bad domino effect in high m+ key population. Many do 8-10 keys to get Gilded crests, but if we go back to "valor" or single currency, we go back to how it was prior to Dragonflight where it would be more efficient to just spam lower keys instead of doing high keys to get your currency.

The system isn't that complicated and makes perfect sense when you're out in the world engaging with it. The vertical nature of WoW's progression system is what necessitates the multiple currencies.

Originally Posted by Wowforlife79

We have way to many currencies . Plz blizz just make 1 currency for pvp, 1 for pve done. Why do I need to acquire 4 different new currencies each season!?!?!? Its bonkers how convoluted and bloated this currency system is.

I mean you don't
depending on what level you play probably 2 of those currencies mean absolutely NOTHING to you

Only do world stuff? Only the White and Green matter
Only Do Delves? Green and Blue AND MAYBE purple if your dedicated matter
Only do Normal Raids? Only Green and Blue matter
Only do Heroic Raids Only Blue and Purple matter
Only do Mythics? Only Purple matters

and the best part is you usually are SWIMMING in these if you are constantly doing the content

Like honestly this is a thing that seems way more complicated on paper than it actually is.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Raidoser

By the way the fact that boosting is supported now in wow (a lot of player will mock you because you don't boost to speedrun the game) make all arguments to protect the "value" of loot moot, in wow it's not unusual to see bad players who don't even know what an interrupt is with Mythic gear level, so people farming lower content to upgrade their gear wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

I'm sorry but like...please point to the "Lot of players mock you for not boosting" cause like if that's like a legit thing I've NEVER seen that.

Originally Posted by Ielenia

Because that would have a bad domino effect in high m+ key population. Many do 8-10 keys to get Gilded crests, but if we go back to "valor" or single currency, we go back to how it was prior to Dragonflight where it would be more efficient to just spam lower keys instead of doing high keys to get your currency.

Not if the earnings from mythic and requirements for mythic gear is so high that doing easier content is essentially a waste of time (the same way you would not farm the starting zones to farm gold for a wow token); attempting mythic for months would be much more efficient than spamming easier difficulty

Originally Posted by Cæli

Not if the earnings from mythic and requirements for mythic gear is so high that doing easier content is essentially a waste of time (the same way you would not farm the starting zones to farm gold for a wow token); attempting mythic for months would be much more efficient than spamming easier difficulty

People instead spam old raids for money, instead.

Anyways, it still wouldn't work, because to chain-spam +2/+3s you just need a group of four lightly geared characters with you, to repeatedly clear low keys with efficient speed, with a next to zero chance of failure. Doing higher keys you'd need everyone around you to be well geared and know what they're doing, and even then there's still the chance of failure, AND those clears would also take much longer than they would on those +2/+3s.

The currency the way it is fine. It urges you to engage with harder content if you want higher rewards, instead of just spamming low keys to get maximum rewards. You want to upgrade your "hero 4/6" item? Well, you need to do keys +8 or above or mythic raids, instead of spamming low keys while listening to your favorite podcast in the background.

I think the tiered system of upgrade currencies are fine, but I think they should just come up with evergreen names for the four tiers and use the same four for every tier and expansion (for as long as they keep this system). It doesn't matter that much, but it might help with the optics for new players (or players looking in, wondering whether to return) thinking that there's four "new" currencies every tier, when there really aren't.

Also, I'd probably drop the X-stones currency, personally. The crests are the real roadblock/cost, and that would make them more analogous to the old justice/valor points or the various emblems.

Originally Posted by shanthi

I think the tiered system of upgrade currencies are fine, but I think they should just come up with evergreen names for the four tiers and use the same four for every tier and expansion (for as long as they keep this system). It doesn't matter that much, but it might help with the optics for new players (or players looking in, wondering whether to return) thinking that there's four "new" currencies every tier, when there really aren't.

Also, they kind of do have an "evergreen system" for naming the crests. The first part of the name refers to the quality of the crest, based on their respective expansion (whelpling/wyrm/drake/aspect for Dragonflight, and weathered/carved/runed/gilded for TWW) and that naming lasts the entire expansion, then we have the second name which refers to the seasons within an expansion, such as harbinger/Undermine for TWW.

Also, I'd probably drop the X-stones currency, personally. The crests are the real roadblock/cost, and that would make them more analogous to the old justice/valor points or the various emblems.

Actually, I've been 'roadblocked' by the stones a couple times on my main character when I stopped doing WQs on a consistent basis when upgrading my gear, and have been roadblocked several times on alts.