Blizzard's Response to Classic Hardcore DDoS Attacks

I'm curious what the next step is, because there will be another ddos waiting for them once they start raiding again. There is no consequence for the stupid ddos and blizzard can't stop them.

Originally Posted by WiNiFiX

I hope Blizzard have a FULL list of EVERY DDOS HC death EVER, thats alot of revives to do, fair is fair

I also lost a level 1 HC character I insist it is revived with its 999999999999999999999999 gold

Tell me you don't know how the game works without telling me you don't know how the game works.

Originally Posted by kranur

What? You can easily log players pings and on top of that send external pings to monitor network external performance. It's just a matter of being efficient to not have a ton of storage overhead.

You can manipulate your ping. It's trivial.

Originally Posted by Ielenia

You do realize there's no difference whatsoever between recorded "evidence" of everyone on your screen running in place when the servers lag out due to DDoS attacks, and you disconnecting your computer's WiFi, right?

Yes, and the point is? That's how it worked when it was community driven and hardcore was arguably better on this front back then.
1st: how many are gonna record. 2nd: so what if 0.01% of the playerbase gets away with pulling their cable on hardcore?
People buy thousands of gold on classic and get away with it, giving them an edge in both PvE and PvP. I'd say that's worse as it affects other people's gameplay directly. Yet I don't really give a shit about that either.

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Originally Posted by schwarzkopf

Record playing, get my mate to pull network cable if it looks like I'm in trouble.

Video evidence, hardcore mode no longer hardcore mode.

Nice, if you got a friend that will slave for you like that, you deserve it. <3 Realistically though, I don't think the stars will align that often.

Originally Posted by Ielenia

I mean, you can take that stance, but mine is that, as it is with all ToS, the wording only applies to "you" and "them", as in, the player and Blizzard. A third party butting in and fucking up Blizzard's connections with DDoS attacks, the way I read this, is not included in there.

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True. But here's the difference: everyone, in both retail and classic, was getting disconnected due to the DDoS. Whereas in cases such as your connection fucking up or power going out in your neighborhood, only you are dropping out of the game.

The second paragraph of Blizzard's Hardcore agreement explicitly states, in no uncertain terms, that a character's death is permanent for any reason. This includes, but is not limited to, disconnections, lag, server outages, gameplay bugs, or [COLOR="#FF0000]"any other reason.[/COLOR] By including the phrase "]any other reason" twice[/COLOR][/B], Blizzard created a blanket policy designed to cover all potential causes of death, foreseeable or not. This wording leaves no room for exceptions, and attempting to carve out exceptions now undermines the integrity and consistency of the agreement.

Allowing exceptions for deaths caused by DDoS attacks negates the clear and definitive terms set in the agreement. Once exceptions are made, it opens a slippery slope where future deaths caused by other external factors—such as power outages or ISP issues—could also be disputed. This erodes the core principle of Hardcore mode: that players accept the risk of permanent death under any circumstances.

Blizzard's agreement relies on the expectation that all players abide by the same rules, ensuring fairness. By making exceptions for certain scenarios, Blizzard risks creating inconsistencies in the gameplay experience, which contradicts the clear wording and intent of the second paragraph.

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Originally Posted by NineSpine

You seem to not understand the difference between having no obligation to do something, versus promising to never do it.

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It says that you "accept" that, not that Blizzard is obligated to never do it, nor that Blizzard is obligated to never update the rules.

The distinction between "accepting" and Blizzard's obligations misses the point entirely when it comes to the agreement players made for Hardcore mode. The second paragraph of Blizzard's agreement states explicitly:

"By agreeing to play on these realms, you accept that your character's death is permanent for whatever the reason. This includes disconnections, lag, server outages, gameplay bugs, or any other reason."
The use of unequivocal language like "permanent for whatever the reason" and "any other reason" clearly establishes a blanket policy with no exceptions. By agreeing to this, players entered the Hardcore mode understanding that all deaths—regardless of cause—are final. This agreement serves as more than just a passive acknowledgment; it represents a fundamental rule defining the Hardcore experience.

Attempting to justify changes by saying Blizzard isn't "promising to never do it" or is free to "update the rules" negates the clear intent and standing of this agreement. This isn't about Blizzard's ability to revise policies; it's about them maintaining integrity and fairness by adhering to the terms under which players chose to participate. Making exceptions now—whether for streamers or other groups—undermines the trust players have in the consistency and principles of Hardcore mode. It also sets a dangerous precedent where external factors can be used to argue for further deviations from the established rules.

Blizzard's decision to restore characters impacted by DDoS attacks, despite the explicit agreement, shows a departure from the very foundation they set. This move dilutes the Hardcore experience and opens the door to inconsistent enforcement of the rules, ultimately damaging the mode's integrity.

Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

This move dilutes the Hardcore experience and opens the door to inconsistent enforcement of the rules, ultimately damaging the mode's integrity.

It doesn't, stop acting crazy and put this effort into something else my man

Originally Posted by fazaim

Yes, and the point is? That's how it worked when it was community driven and hardcore was arguably better on this front back then.
1st: how many are gonna record. 2nd: so what if 0.01% of the playerbase gets away with pulling their cable on hardcore?

You're being insanely generous with that "0.01%" number you pulled out of the ether. The DDoS are an extraordinary event that negatively affect both Blizzard and the players by third party attacks. They're not caused by the player or Blizzard.

People buy thousands of gold on classic and get away with it, giving them an edge in both PvE and PvP. I'd say that's worse as it affects other people's gameplay directly. Yet I don't really give a shit about that either.

Is your stance "if the game is not 100% insured against any kind of fraud, then all fraud should be allowed"? I can see no other reason why you would bring up this whataboutism.

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Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

The second paragraph of Blizzard's Hardcore agreement explicitly states, in no uncertain terms, that a character's death is permanent for any reason.

Cool But like I said in my first response to you:

Originally Posted by Ielenia

I mean, you can take that stance, but mine is that, as it is with all ToS, the wording only applies to "you" and "them", as in, the player and Blizzard. A third party butting in and fucking up Blizzard's connections with DDoS attacks, the way I read this, is not included in there.

Blizzard's agreement relies on the expectation that all players abide by the same rules, ensuring fairness.

And in this case, both parties abided by the same rules. Only this time a third party came along and fucked up things for both sides.

Originally Posted by fazaim

It doesn't, stop acting crazy and put this effort into something else my man

This isn’t about "acting crazy" or focusing effort in the wrong place—it’s about holding Blizzard accountable to their own agreement. The facts are clear: the second paragraph of the Hardcore mode agreement explicitly states that deaths are permanent for any reason, including disconnections, lag, or any other reason. Ignoring these terms undermines the integrity of Hardcore mode and sets a precedent where rules can be bent based on external pressure.

Originally Posted by Ielenia

You're being insanely generous with that "0.01%" number you pulled out of the ether. The DDoS are an extraordinary event that negatively affect both Blizzard and the players by third party attacks. They're not caused by the player or Blizzard.


Is your stance "if the game is not 100% insured against any kind of fraud, then all fraud should be allowed"? I can see no other reason why you would bring up this whataboutism.

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Cool But like I said in my first response to you:



And in this case, both parties abided by the same rules. Only this time a third party came along and fucked up things for both sides.

The agreement’s language is not open to interpretation. Phrases like "permanent for whatever the reason" and "any other reason" are absolute and leave no room for exceptions. Your argument that "the way I read this, is not included in there" directly contradicts the plain and unambiguous wording of the agreement. By agreeing to play Hardcore, every player accepted that death could result from any cause, no matter how unforeseen or uncontrollable.


Blizzard’s decision to restore characters impacted by DDoS attacks undermines this agreement. While DDoS attacks may be malicious third-party actions, the agreement explicitly accounts for unforeseen circumstances by including the blanket term "any other reason." Allowing exceptions not only contradicts the agreement but also sets a dangerous precedent. Future external factors, like ISP outages or local power failures, could then be used to justify further exceptions, eroding the integrity of Hardcore mode.

This isn’t about emotions or personal grievances. It’s about adhering to the clear, black-and-white terms that all players agreed to. Ignoring these terms creates inconsistency and unfairness, diluting the Hardcore experience and compromising the principles it was built on.

I'm fine with this. Seeing as doing nothing would be letting some asshole DDoser get their way.

The Only thing I think is not allright is the bold part here:

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

In the future, Blizzard may elect – at our sole discretion – to revive Hardcore characters that perish in a mass event which we deem inconsistent with the integrity of the game, such as a DDoS attack.

Might be a bit pessimistic or I read something else into it, but for me it reads like: Not everyone in a given DDOS event will be ressurected. But only a selection of People.
I think it should be all, or no one.

Originally Posted by NineSpine

You can manipulate your ping. It's trivial.

That's why you collect layer/zone wide pings, to check if it's a single player or all.

Originally Posted by LanToaster

The Only thing I think is not allright is the bold part here:

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

In the future, Blizzard may elect – at our sole discretion – to revive Hardcore characters that perish in a mass event which we deem inconsistent with the integrity of the game, such as a DDoS attack.

Might be a bit pessimistic or I read something else into it, but for me it reads like: Not everyone in a given DDOS event will be ressurected. But only a selection of People.
I think it should be all, or no one.

First off im against restoring any hardcore characters.


The rules for Hardcore mode were clearly defined and should be enforced consistently. If Blizzard chooses to restore characters lost to DDoS attacks, the decision should exclude streamers, as the attacks were specifically targeted at them due to their own actions. Innocent players who were affected should not be forced to suffer, yet that is often the case.

For over 24 years, Blizzard has upheld the principle of permanent death in Hardcore mode since its introduction in Diablo 2. Backtracking on this longstanding policy now shows weakness and raises questions about their motivations. It appears this change is being made purely for financial reasons rather than in the interest of fairness or integrity. Blizzard’s focus seems to be on catering to streamers who provide free advertising, rather than prioritizing the dedicated player base. These streamers attract seasonal players who will likely quit after one or two months, rather than fostering a community of long-term, loyal subscribers.

If Blizzard truly wanted to secure sustainable business growth, they would focus on cultivating steady subscriptions from genuine players, rather than relying on the fleeting interest of fanboy bandwagon followers brought in by streamer influence.

Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

The second paragraph of Blizzard's Hardcore agreement explicitly states, in no uncertain terms, that a character's death is permanent for any reason. This includes, but is not limited to, disconnections, lag, server outages, gameplay bugs, or [COLOR="#FF0000]"any other reason.[/COLOR] By including the phrase "]any other reason" twice[/COLOR][/B], Blizzard created a blanket policy designed to cover all potential causes of death, foreseeable or not. This wording leaves no room for exceptions, and attempting to carve out exceptions now undermines the integrity and consistency of the agreement.

Allowing exceptions for deaths caused by DDoS attacks negates the clear and definitive terms set in the agreement. Once exceptions are made, it opens a slippery slope where future deaths caused by other external factors—such as power outages or ISP issues—could also be disputed. This erodes the core principle of Hardcore mode: that players accept the risk of permanent death under any circumstances.

Blizzard's agreement relies on the expectation that all players abide by the same rules, ensuring fairness. By making exceptions for certain scenarios, Blizzard risks creating inconsistencies in the gameplay experience, which contradicts the clear wording and intent of the second paragraph.

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The distinction between "accepting" and Blizzard's obligations misses the point entirely when it comes to the agreement players made for Hardcore mode. The second paragraph of Blizzard's agreement states explicitly:

"By agreeing to play on these realms, you accept that your character's death is permanent for whatever the reason. This includes disconnections, lag, server outages, gameplay bugs, or any other reason."
The use of unequivocal language like "permanent for whatever the reason" and "any other reason" clearly establishes a blanket policy with no exceptions. By agreeing to this, players entered the Hardcore mode understanding that all deaths—regardless of cause—are final. This agreement serves as more than just a passive acknowledgment; it represents a fundamental rule defining the Hardcore experience.

Attempting to justify changes by saying Blizzard isn't "promising to never do it" or is free to "update the rules" negates the clear intent and standing of this agreement. This isn't about Blizzard's ability to revise policies; it's about them maintaining integrity and fairness by adhering to the terms under which players chose to participate. Making exceptions now—whether for streamers or other groups—undermines the trust players have in the consistency and principles of Hardcore mode. It also sets a dangerous precedent where external factors can be used to argue for further deviations from the established rules.

Blizzard's decision to restore characters impacted by DDoS attacks, despite the explicit agreement, shows a departure from the very foundation they set. This move dilutes the Hardcore experience and opens the door to inconsistent enforcement of the rules, ultimately damaging the mode's integrity.

I just dont know what to tell you if you think that the original agreement said that they are obligated to never do it and will never change the agreement. It simply doesn’t say those things. You are just mad because seeing the streamers die gave you an erection.

Originally Posted by kranur

That's why you collect layer/zone wide pings, to check if it's a single player or all.

Again, none of this is how TCP/IP connections work. Lag can be highly specific to certain connections.

Originally Posted by NineSpine

I just dont know what to tell you if you think that the original agreement said that they are obligated to never do it and will never change the agreement. It simply doesn’t say those things. You are just mad because seeing the streamers die gave you an erection.

First off the language leaves no room for exceptions! By restoring characters lost to DDoS attacks, Blizzard is directly contradicting the agreement that all players accepted when choosing to play Hardcore mode.

As for the personal remark, it’s irrelevant and detracts from the actual discussion. This is about holding Blizzard accountable to their own rules and ensuring fairness for all players, not about personal feelings or biases. Let’s focus on the facts and the principles at stake.


The rules of Hardcore mode have been in place for almost 25 years!!! Why are they all of a sudden a problem?

Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

Your argument that "the way I read this, is not included in there"

My argument is: "the agreement is between you and Blizzard. A third party is not included in this agreement."

Well it's their game, they can change the rule or make exceptions whenever they want, especially as a result of a pure hatred move. Can't believe some people were happy of the DDOS attacks.

Originally Posted by WiNiFiX

Blizzard ban me when they detect me "learning" botting

boohoo, i cheated and got punished for it...
well done by blizz

Originally Posted by WiNiFiX

but they then break their very own TOS and thats ok

well yes, it actualy is if you ever read them... not that this would actualy break TOS...

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Originally Posted by Greengrim

It's definitely streamer privilege.

are they only reviving streamers?
if not then its like DarkAmbient said, they are protecting their busines bcs this was "on the nose"

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Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

So none of the characters should really be restrored or revived. That is not the game.

yeah that would totaly not lead to more DDOS attacks in the future if this one goes ignored...

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Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

The people behind the DDoS are winning they caused blizzard to break the user agreement in favor of streamers.

you do realise tos are rules for PLAYERS and not for bliz?
bliz literaly cannot break them, they can change them on the whim, its THEIR RULES you dolt...

How can you argue this

Originally Posted by Ielenia

You're being insanely generous with that "0.01%" number you pulled out of the ether. The DDoS are an extraordinary event that negatively affect both Blizzard and the players by third party attacks. They're not caused by the player or Blizzard.

when you follow up with this

Originally Posted by Ielenia

Is your stance "if the game is not 100% insured against any kind of fraud, then all fraud should be allowed"? I can see no other reason why you would bring up this whataboutism.

I don't think I'm being neither generous or otherwise. I just don't think many people want to exist solely to be on cable-pulling duty for some game addict.

With my example I demonstrated an issue that has more effect on more players. Hardcore is still niche in the broader sense of things...

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Originally Posted by Hardstyle89

This isn’t about "acting crazy" or focusing effort in the wrong place—it’s about holding Blizzard accountable to their own agreement.

Man, stop going absolutely ballistic.

Originally Posted by HatsHatsHats

So privileged they are the target of DDoS attacks that effect thousands of people, not just the steamers themselves.

It's so funny for people to cry privilege when it's harassment they have the privilege of being the target of.

True. Only a dishonest individual would argue otherwise.

The problem is that WoW Classic released almost 2 years ago and there were multiple DDOS attacks that resulted in the loss of thousands of characters since then.

I understand the argument that this was a super targeted attack and that letting the people responsible "win" leaves a bad taste.

The problem is that it's still preferential treatment. There's no way around this fact. Because DDOS attacks weren't invented last week. I remember Classic HC was plagued with DDOS attacks at release. Which one could argue were targeted at that game mode release spefifically, especially because the inconvenience of disconnects in that game mode is that much more damaging than on any other.

Why was it OK to let DDOS attackers "win" the last 2 years and now it's not? Let's go no further than which people this attack targeted to get the answer.

This is preferential treatment.

Personally, I don't care about them getting preferential treatment, OnlyFangs is singlehandedly carrying the Classic HC on its back and providing entertainment to a massive audience.

Let's just not be dishonest about the reason why they might get their characters back.