Puzzling Cartel Chip Update
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’ve been closely following your feedback on our recent announcement of the upcoming Turbo Boost event. We understand that while most of the benefits of the event - such as double drop rate on Warbound-Until-Equipped gear from dungeons, or extra upgrade tiers available on all existing items - will be available immediately, the prospect of waiting three additional weeks to purchase select Liberation of Undermine items from Consultant Wrexxle is a frustrating one.

In light of that, we’re changing the structure of the quests for Puzzling Cartel Chips, so that the first week’s quest will now reward 3 Chips, enough to purchase one item immediately. The 6-quest progression will continue as planned after that, allowing each character to earn up to 9 Chips (up from 6) and purchase up to three Liberation of Undermine items.

We also want to take a moment to offer some context on the goals of the Cartel Chip currency, and how they compare to past experiments such as the Dinar system in Shadowlands Season 4, a natural point of comparison for many players.

In Shadowlands and Dragonflight Season 4, there was a very compressed season timetable that rotated through multiple raids, making it extremely unlikely for any player to get a particular raid drop. We introduced the Dinar system as a primary means of acquiring specific chase items that would otherwise be unobtainable for most players. Those seasons also weren’t about progression, but rather “farm from the start,” letting players re-experience familiar content from earlier in the expansion with updated rewards. And of course, they came at the very end of their respective expansion, with a full power reset just on the horizon, and little need to worry about the long-term implications of giving players access to gear with a power level several tiers above their normal rewards.

The middle of The War Within Season 2, however, presents a very different situation. Puzzling Cartel Chips were designed primarily as bad luck protection, allowing players who’ve been chasing specific raid items without success to have a guaranteed path to earning them. They also provide a path for players who have only done the Normal version of the raid to get a few guaranteed Hero items, without undermining a core motivation for the challenge and coordination required in Mythic raid progression. We also need to be mindful of how we will transition into the next season. Giving players who don’t normally engage in high-end content access to Item Level 680+ trinkets would essentially obsolete those slots for Season 3.

We understand that players who don’t raid, or who have no interest in Mythic raiding, are disappointed that they can’t get Myth versions of these desirable items. The Puzzling Cartel Chips system will still allow someone who only does Normal mode of Liberation of Undermine to earn, for example, a House of Cards trinket at Item Level 672 once it is fully upgraded. We hope that will be an exciting prospect for many players.

This event is an experiment on our part, aimed at giving a wide range of players a boost towards achieving their progression, collection, or power goals as we move into the second half of the season. Your feedback is deeply appreciated, and we’ll be listening and watching closely to inform any future plans.

–The WoW Development Team
This article was originally published in forum thread: Puzzling Cartel Chip Update started by Lumy View original post
Comments 63 Comments
  1. DarkspearNeverDie's Avatar
    What a joke.

    So normal players get a bump up to heroic gear but heroic is stuck with heroic? Meanwhile now the gap between Mythic+ players and Mythic raiders is even larger (3 items instead of 2). They legit made it worse.

    Hopefully this shit storm continues and they walk it back completely to S4 of Shadowlands type implementation.
  1. Kharli's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkspearNeverDie View Post
    What a joke.

    So normal players get a bump up to heroic gear but heroic is stuck with heroic? Meanwhile now the gap between Mythic+ players and Mythic raiders is even larger (3 items instead of 2). They legit made it worse.

    Hopefully this shit storm continues and they walk it back completely to S4 of Shadowlands type implementation.
    yeah but if you can do mythic+10's then you should have no problem doing mythic raid right?
  1. Phunkle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    yeah but if you can do mythic+10's then you should have no problem doing mythic raid right?
    This is not a great argument. It's a lot easier to get 5 people together for a 30min Dungeon, than it is to get 20 people for a 3hr raid.
    People tend to forget the logistics behind mythic raiding.
  1. sensei-'s Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkspearNeverDie View Post
    What a joke.

    So normal players get a bump up to heroic gear but heroic is stuck with heroic? Meanwhile now the gap between Mythic+ players and Mythic raiders is even larger (3 items instead of 2). They legit made it worse.

    Hopefully this shit storm continues and they walk it back completely to S4 of Shadowlands type implementation.
    You are the joke for wanting mythic Jastor Diamonds and Mug's Jugs for doing heroic or nothing at all.

    Good system of bad luck protection.
  1. Smeagolski's Avatar
    What I do not get is why it does not extend to the worst point of bad luck in game, which would be m+ vault.
    Several seasons now I did not get bis trinket out of vault, and have fairly decent number of guildies fighting the same rng boss, which has no other means of being farmed but having 8 dungeons done each week (used to be 10 too).
    And a lot of best trinkets happen to drop from m+, and if you calculate the weekly chance to get that specific item even with all 3slots unlocked, it comes to a miniscule chance.
    If we're talking seasonal bad luck, it's almost impossible to skip on it, yet this only applies to raid items.
  1. Nymrohd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei- View Post
    You are the joke for wanting mythic Jastor Diamonds and Mug's Jugs for doing heroic or nothing at all.

    Good system of bad luck protection.
    Good system for selling boosts you mean. If you want it to be a good system for bad luck protection, it would require multiple kills of the boss in question. So yeah if you kill Mythic Gallywix or Bandit 4 times, unlock their items. And make that vendor available from the start of the season. Not getting the item you want in ONE KILL Is not bad luck, it's normal after all. By requiring multiple kills it a) actually is there to help you with having bad luck, b) making the cost prohibitive cause even now buying one boost will be expensive, imagine having to buy 4. Heck require that you've killed 30 Mythic bosses throughout the season, that way you help people who only get Cutting Edge late in the season. Because right now the people who are making an effort at Mythic raiding but not excelling at it and have 30+ Mythic raid boss kills but are at 4-6/8 will never get their Myth Track Jastor Diamonds or Eyes of Kezan or Mug's Jug (and the 5/8 ones cannot even get House of Cards or BiS). But the person who can throw money at blizzard to buy tokens for a gold cap will.

    And ofc if you are helping people out with the very rare items they might never see, maybe do the same with M+ trinkets/cantrip weapons as well which are all by definition very rare given your chance to get them Myth track is limited to the Vault (or maybe, maybe find a way to implement that coin-based bad luck protection they had suggested back when they first implemented the Vault in BfA but could never work out).
  1. Nzx's Avatar
    This would be fine if they actually put reasonable trinkets into M+. I am 3100 so far in 11.1 without stepping foot in the raid because I'm not interested in scheduling real life around this game this season. However, because of the piss poor trinket balancing, my options are to either pray for delve trinkets at heroic ilvl in the vault, go raid, or just be ~4% worse off with two trinkets from the M+ pool of equal item level.

    For as long as the M+ trinket pool is full of dogshit like Kujo Flame Vents, Razdunk's Big Red Button, and the fucking Sigil of Algari Concordance but the raid pool has House of Cards/Eye of Kezan, no one can be a top-end M+ only player. No matter how good your vault luck is you will always be strictly worse than someone who buys a boost even to Bandit and can therefore get House of Cards + Best In Slots for free.

    If the argument is that this isn't "Fated" season and it's not right before the next expansion, just don't do dinars/chips/whatever. Such a massive own goal for no reason.
  1. Aurrora's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    yeah but if you can do mythic+10's then you should have no problem doing mythic raid right?
    Are you missing the /s? There's only 144 guilds that have killed Mythic Gallywix, people pug Mythic10+s.
  1. Nymrohd's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    This would be fine if they actually put reasonable trinkets into M+. I am 3100 so far in 11.1 without stepping foot in the raid because I'm not interested in scheduling real life around this game this season. However, because of the piss poor trinket balancing, my options are to either pray for delve trinkets at heroic ilvl in the vault, go raid, or just be ~4% worse off with two trinkets from the M+ pool of equal item level.

    For as long as the M+ trinket pool is full of dogshit like Kujo Flame Vents, Razdunk's Big Red Button, and the fucking Sigil of Algari Concordance but the raid pool has House of Cards/Eye of Kezan, no one can be a top-end M+ only player. No matter how good your vault luck is you will always be strictly worse than someone who buys a boost even to Bandit and can therefore get House of Cards + Best In Slots for free.

    If the argument is that this isn't "Fated" season and it's not right before the next expansion, just don't do dinars/chips/whatever. Such a massive own goal for no reason.
    For many specs, their best trinkets are from M+ (Pacemaker, Tome, Signet). And that is even worse. Getting a specific Myth track M+ trinket from the vault is quite less likely than getting a raid one (unless the raid one is Very rare).

    But yeah, they shouldn't have even done dinars. There shouldn't be a reason to do them in the normal season. The only thing that made it make sense was how the raid has multiple Very Rare items that are not only BiS but are BiS for half your raid (Best-In-Slot, Jastor Diamond, Go-Pack even) and they are best by a decent margin. Which maybe should not have been the case? It was like making everyone in the raid feel like Rogues during Sanctum.

    Imo if they do Very Rares, they should be very specific items that are BiS for 2-3 specs (or a specific class)
  1. wowuser12's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Phunkle View Post
    This is not a great argument. It's a lot easier to get 5 people together for a 30min Dungeon, than it is to get 20 people for a 3hr raid.
    People tend to forget the logistics behind mythic raiding.
    It happened during Vanilla, BC and Wrath no problem. Why is 20 people so difficult to get?
  1. Ironhorn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by wowuser12 View Post
    It happened during Vanilla, BC and Wrath no problem. Why is 20 people so difficult to get?
    Much larger player base back then and lower skill cap. Mythic Raids now are much harder than 25 heroic LK.
  1. Alduin's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    This event is an experiment on our part..
    Different wording for "no clue what we do."
  1. wowuser12's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhorn View Post
    Much larger player base back then and lower skill cap. Mythic Raids now are much harder than 25 heroic LK.
    You certainly got that right!
  1. MrLachyG's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by wowuser12 View Post
    You certainly got that right!
    he got the rest right too. as for the bolded bit, well there's no way to tell because Blizzard don't release numbers
  1. wowuser12's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    he got the rest right too. as for the bolded bit, well there's no way to tell because Blizzard don't release numbers
    Sure.

    Are you saying the game has 12 million subscribers right now? I'd like to see your source on that.
  1. Ardourdan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    yeah but if you can do mythic+10's then you should have no problem doing mythic raid right?
    No. I don't have time to raid for 3-4 hours 3 days a week. Most WoW players must be well in their late 20s/30s/40s by now... a lot of ex-mythic raiders have time for M+ but not for raiding. Mythic+, in my eyes should be on par with mythic raiding.

    For context there are plenty of Mythic raiders that would fail in 15/16/17+ mythic keys and vice versa. Those that M+ high keys should absolutely have access to Mythic tier gear as they are wanting to push their current season rating. I can understand preventing heroic raiders but Mythic+ key players are playing incredibly challenging end-game content.
  1. MrLachyG's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by wowuser12 View Post
    Sure.

    Are you saying the game has 12 million subscribers right now? I'd like to see your source on that.
    I don't have a source for that but I also don't have a source saying it's not that. it could well be that (it almost certainly isn't) but the point is we don't know. so why even bring it up.
  1. Mendzia's Avatar
    Blizzard is "listening" to feedback in nutshell:
    1. Create artificial problem.
    2. People are mad.
    3. We will nerf it slightly.
    4. People are still mad. <----- YOU ARE ON THIS STEP
    5. "We hear your feedback players! After consideration we will remove it completely" incoming early next week.
  1. Tehalbino's Avatar
    Pretty much everyone in title range currently (~17's atm) wouldn't have very much difficulty clearing the raid.
    Gatekeeping trinkets and gear from players that are participating in objectively harder content doesn't make much sense.

    Nobody has time to wait for little Timmy to learn and adapt to the fight. In general this happens in practically every guild or run (including the very top/Liquid to varying degrees).

    Most players in this position will begrudgingly bite the bullet and either join a guild or group for the specific boss(es) they need, but it doesn't excuse the poor implementation and logic behind the gatekeeping.
  1. LordVargK's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehalbino View Post
    Pretty much everyone in title range currently (~17's atm) wouldn't have very much difficulty clearing the raid.
    Gatekeeping trinkets and gear from players that are participating in objectively harder content doesn't make much sense.

    Nobody has time to wait for little Timmy to learn and adapt to the fight. In general this happens in practically every guild or run (including the very top/Liquid to varying degrees).

    Most players in this position will begrudgingly bite the bullet and either join a guild or group for the specific boss(es) they need, but it doesn't excuse the poor implementation and logic behind the gatekeeping.
    And getting those trinkets on mythic is the reward for doing so. It's not "gatekeeping" it's the last true advantage having to actually socialize in an MMO has.

    And I would disagree: Mechanically a +17 isn't different than a +12. Mythic raids on the other hand are different than their heroic counterparts. And raid fights are mechanically much harder than m+. So just throwing 20 players that can clear a +17 together would not be enough to clear mythic Gallywix.

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