Ghosts of K'aresh - Developer Interviews

No writer on the planet could've written an alliance with Xalatath that isn't illogical and ham-fisted. It's also entirely unnecessary; we could've just beaten Dimensius without her narratively and had her show up at the very end to steal his power or something.

Also I cannot understate how sick and tired I am of seeing "the team felt, the team wanted" there is no team, it's team leads making decisions that please suits and everyone else having to go along with it.

· There isn't an easy fix to get more players to play tanks or healers. They have tried to incentivize it with rewards and can probably do a little bit better there.

The easy fix is NOT incentivizing players to play roles like tank/healer. It disrupts the natural flow, and the social interactions with those roles. If there is a lack of a role, players will be automatically incentivized, there's no need for Blizzard to fidget around with incentives. It just ruins the game.

Originally Posted by korijenkins

NAlso I cannot understate how sick and tired I am of seeing "the team felt, the team wanted" there is no team, it's team leads making decisions that please suits and everyone else having to go along with it.

How do you know this?

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Originally Posted by nvaelz

· There isn't an easy fix to get more players to play tanks or healers. They have tried to incentivize it with rewards and can probably do a little bit better there.

The easy fix is NOT incentivizing players to play roles like tank/healer. It disrupts the natural flow, and the social interactions with those roles. If there is a lack of a role, players will be automatically incentivized, there's no need for Blizzard to fidget around with incentives. It just ruins the game.

Is this some weird game libertarianism? The Invisible Hand of Azeroth will magically shorten queue times despite all evidence to the contrary?

Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon

Is this some weird game libertarianism? The Invisible Hand of Azeroth will magically shorten queue times despite all evidence to the contrary?

Isn't that how game design works? Just do nothing and the problems will correct themselves, obviously.

Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon

How do you know this?

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Is this some weird game libertarianism? The Invisible Hand of Azeroth will magically shorten queue times despite all evidence to the contrary?

MoP classic kinda shows that despite being easier to play, doing ridiculous damage due to vengeance, and being more self sufficient for the first time:

People still don't play tanks, and many that do still suck.

Originally Posted by Caprias

MoP classic kinda shows that despite being easier to play, doing ridiculous damage due to vengeance, and being more self sufficient for the first time:

People still don't play tanks, and many that do still suck.

if even mop has this issue then that is INSANE, mop doesnt have m+ that forces a tank to know routes and mob % what to pull what to skip, dungeons are easy even the new harder ones, also like you said, tanks are gods in mop....i guess the main issue wasnt the pressure, people just dont like it

They need to change their stance on raid utility

"We don't want to give every class a 60 min buff"

Well you either do that or take the existing ones away, I say this as a warrior main with one of the best buffs there is, it simply isn't fair on rogues, hunters, DKs etc

We have no crit buff
We have no haste buff
We have no leech, avoidance or speed buffs - there's plenty of buffs you could add

So glad I dropped DK. WoW is a game of musical chairs—you have to swap main classes for most expacs (except paladin, mage, Druid). Hearing that they “want to carve out a space for grip and AMZ” is insulting.

Guess they are too busy ham fisting Xalatath into the story with their weekly Xalatath meetings.

Originally Posted by deenman

if even mop has this issue then that is INSANE, mop doesnt have m+ that forces a tank to know routes and mob % what to pull what to skip, dungeons are easy even the new harder ones, also like you said, tanks are gods in mop....i guess the main issue wasnt the pressure, people just dont like it

Not sure how MoP classic is, but when MoP was new content we had an overload of tank recruits because they were generally fun to play and had insane damage scaling. The stress on healers also felt less as the tanks got stronger, although busting out a HotW + Tranquility did make the healers cry because it was way stronger than even most healer spec CD's.

I remember when we were doing mythic Garrosh using 3 tanks and 1 healer: we had a resto druid solo-healing the raid with a monk tank kiting, while a prot warr and me as a bear sitting in every mechanic to increase our scaling to boost our damage and basically self-heal ourselves the entire time. Even beyond that encounter specifically, the last people alive during raid wipes were usually the tanks, who'd have to intentionally try to kill themselves as we were so self-sustaining... and Brewmaster could kite for days.

If there was a downside, not all tanks were created equal, and that showed up in Challenge Modes: basically if you weren't a DK tank you probably weren't getting realm fastest times. I tried as a bear but the blood DK's were just too good for CMs, so I went as kitty for all the realm best times/titles.

Anyways, the reality is that the tank/healer roles have implied responsibilities that a DPS role just doesn't have (or can easily skirt), so the only way to draw people to it is to make things for fun for them. Granted everyone's idea of fun can vary, but most people's idea of fun isn't making a tanking/healing spec complicated with little returns when it comes to damage/performance while simultaneously making the content difficult to master.

Originally Posted by meroes

So glad I dropped DK. WoW is a game of musical chairs—you have to swap main classes for most expacs (except paladin, mage, Druid). Hearing that they “want to carve out a space for grip and AMZ” is insulting.

Guess they are too busy ham fisting Xalatath into the story with their weekly Xalatath meetings.

DK was meta all s1 and seems like a good chance to be meta for s2 as well.

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Originally Posted by exochaft

Not sure how MoP classic is, but when MoP was new content we had an overload of tank recruits because they were generally fun to play and had insane damage scaling. The stress on healers also felt less as the tanks got stronger, although busting out a HotW + Tranquility did make the healers cry because it was way stronger than even most healer spec CD's.

I remember when we were doing mythic Garrosh using 3 tanks and 1 healer: we had a resto druid solo-healing the raid with a monk tank kiting, while a prot warr and me as a bear sitting in every mechanic to increase our scaling to boost our damage and basically self-heal ourselves the entire time. Even beyond that encounter specifically, the last people alive during raid wipes were usually the tanks, who'd have to intentionally try to kill themselves as we were so self-sustaining... and Brewmaster could kite for days.

If there was a downside, not all tanks were created equal, and that showed up in Challenge Modes: basically if you weren't a DK tank you probably weren't getting realm fastest times. I tried as a bear but the blood DK's were just too good for CMs, so I went as kitty for all the realm best times/titles.

Anyways, the reality is that the tank/healer roles have implied responsibilities that a DPS role just doesn't have (or can easily skirt), so the only way to draw people to it is to make things for fun for them. Granted everyone's idea of fun can vary, but most people's idea of fun isn't making a tanking/healing spec complicated with little returns when it comes to damage/performance while simultaneously making the content difficult to master.

Out of curiosity, have you played recently? Most tanks barely require direct healing at all. Their survival is almost completely in their hands.

Originally Posted by nvaelz

· There isn't an easy fix to get more players to play tanks or healers. They have tried to incentivize it with rewards and can probably do a little bit better there.

The easy fix is NOT incentivizing players to play roles like tank/healer. It disrupts the natural flow, and the social interactions with those roles. If there is a lack of a role, players will be automatically incentivized, there's no need for Blizzard to fidget around with incentives. It just ruins the game.

Clearly that isn't true at all. People just say any old nonsense on these forums, don't they?

The issue with the tank role is that each tank contributes about 50% of the group's overall performance AND shoulders nearly 80% of the responsibility for the run.
If you're new to tanking, be prepared to face criticism (insulting) and even harassment over the smallest mistakes or any deviation from the standard MDI routes and pulls.

You’ll also be expected to know every mob’s special abilities and interrupt timings, all while your mouth-breathing DPS tunnel their one-button rotation and ignore everything else going on around them.

Originally Posted by noctim2

The issue with the tank role is that each tank contributes about 50% of the group's overall performance AND shoulders nearly 80% of the responsibility for the run.
If you're new to tanking, be prepared to face criticism (insulting) and even harassment over the smallest mistakes or any deviation from the standard MDI routes and pulls.

You’ll also be expected to know every mob’s special abilities and interrupt timings, all while your mouth-breathing DPS tunnel their one-button rotation and ignore everything else going on around them.

This tbh, as someone who plays all three specs it infuriates me to no end when I see people barate the tank, I remember old days where the tanks where the ones who sat the pace, end of discussion, Mythic+ has brainrotted a lot of players sadly into going for the "optimal skip trash" routes possible, one of the best examples most recently is the BFA timewalking, i've never seen so many boss skips in freehold/shrine of the tides, Freehold most groups skips 80% of the dungeon for "effective" xp gain and kicks you as soon as your out of combat when trashpulls if you don't skip the bosses.

Originally Posted by deenman

if even mop has this issue then that is INSANE, mop doesnt have m+ that forces a tank to know routes and mob % what to pull what to skip, dungeons are easy even the new harder ones, also like you said, tanks are gods in mop....i guess the main issue wasnt the pressure, people just dont like it

The part that Blizzard doesn't understand is that tanking is not fun gameplay for most people. The added m+ requirements are just the cherry on top. You can give out all rewards in the game , people will just tank through, hating themselevs and then stop doing it once they got them.

From a purely technical standpoint, tank gameplay doesn’t differ much from any DPS spec in the game:
You smash your (tank) DPS buttons and you’re fine. Maybe click a defensive cooldown ahead of time if a big hit is coming your way.

But here’s where it gets serious. As a tank, you’re responsible for way more than just surviving:
- You need to find the right position to tank each pull.
- You have to know every major tank-buster ability – which is tricky, because they often one-shot you and wipe the group. So yeah, you better study the dungeon in theory before even setting foot inside.
- You must position mobs correctly, making sure they’re facing the right direction.
- You’re expected to interrupt the most dangerous casts (and yes, you need to know them all before the run starts).
- You need to plan and execute the optimal route – which constantly shifts due to buffs/nerfs, flavor-of-the-month abilities like Shadowmeld, MDI strategies, or gear progression.
- You’re not allowed to die. Ever. And mistakes? Not for tanks.
- You’re responsible for picking up every accidentally pulled trash pack caused by your carefree DPS.
- You also have to gather up the intentionally pre-pulled mobs from your ADHD DPS who can’t wait two seconds and don't care about any of your cooldowns.
- And when something goes wrong? You’re the default scapegoat. (Unless they decide to blame the healer this time – a true wildcard.)

If a DPS dies, one player dies. If the tank dies, typically 5 people die - which is bad in high keys. So, what's the reward? Unless you’re playing in a coordinated guild or fixed raid group, the only real benefit of tanking is faster queue times – in exchange for absorbing most of the stress, responsibility, and community toxicity.

Originally Posted by korijenkins

No writer on the planet could've written an alliance with Xalatath that isn't illogical and ham-fisted. It's also entirely unnecessary; we could've just beaten Dimensius without her narratively and had her show up at the very end to steal his power or something.

Also I cannot understate how sick and tired I am of seeing "the team felt, the team wanted" there is no team, it's team leads making decisions that please suits and everyone else having to go along with it.

I am currently working my IT job (not gaming) and yeah that's basically how it is for us too. Sometimes we can make decisions as a team, but most of the time and especially when managers feel the need to say stuff like "the team felt, the team wanteed" it's what you described.

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Originally Posted by Caprias

MoP classic kinda shows that despite being easier to play, doing ridiculous damage due to vengeance, and being more self sufficient for the first time:

People still don't play tanks, and many that do still suck.

I think there are still some gameplay related issues with this. You are basically never playing just as a tank or healer, but you always have your DPS spec which you play with in the open world (not always the case with tanks, but most of the time), maintain different sets of gear etc. A lot of people just don't want to deal with that.

And ofc there are simply social issues with playing a tank. The pressure is high and people have no respect whatsoever for tanks, even in MoP. Everyone just pulls ahead of you. Even when you're already going giga fast, somebody will still pull more for you and then deal 0 damage anyways, because they expect the tank (with vengenance) to carry them anyways. And if you don't do or know MDI style tactics then you'll just get flamed. I got told yesterday to kill myself and got booted (you always get the 30min debuff now) by not lining of sight the second boss in Scholo, because I didn't know you could do some bug abusing with a mechanic that saves like 1min of time in total. On a side note, in MoP, when you queue as a tank it is very common that you will get grouped together first with a premade of 3 or 4 people, so that toxic attitude is then even worse with those people.

Originally Posted by Kharli

This tbh, as someone who plays all three specs it infuriates me to no end when I see people barate the tank, I remember old days where the tanks where the ones who sat the pace, end of discussion, Mythic+ has brainrotted a lot of players sadly into going for the "optimal skip trash" routes possible, one of the best examples most recently is the BFA timewalking, i've never seen so many boss skips in freehold/shrine of the tides, Freehold most groups skips 80% of the dungeon for "effective" xp gain and kicks you as soon as your out of combat when trashpulls if you don't skip the bosses.

Tanks setting a slow pace was ass even back in the old days. Nobody was happy about doing single packs when you could do more. The issue was finding a replacement tank took longer than putting up with it. Nowadays you get punished by the group because you are not special.

Yes, Freehold is a single boss dungeon. The gains from doing other bosses is simply not worth it compared to just queuing into the next dungeon.

Connect like-minded players would be nice if they realized that collectors (pets, mounts, mogs, etc) are part of WoW too.

Raid trash gives players a break between bosses, letting them hang out in Discord to talk to their friends instead of constantly being focused on a boss.

We get 3 hours a week to progress on the raid bosses. My guild can't do more than one night a week. We have extremely limited amounts of time and we want to focus that time on the reason we are there, to kill raid bosses. When we're wasting 20+ minutes a night killing trash or even worse, we're ending a raid early because it would take too long to kill the trash going to the next boss to get any pulls, it's exactly the opposite of promoting fun and engaging content.

We are going to talk with our friends. We don't need you to put trash in so we can talk with our friends. We can handle being humans on our own. What we can't handle is trying to be time travellers or have some ability to make 3 hours last longer than 3 hours.

Originally Posted by banur

Tanks setting a slow pace was ass even back in the old days. Nobody was happy about doing single packs when you could do more. The issue was finding a replacement tank took longer than putting up with it. Nowadays you get punished by the group because you are not special.

That statement is nonsense, sorry.

Sure, there are tanks who prefer a slower pace, but up until around +10 and sometimes even beyond, timing isn’t an issue as long as you're consistently chain-pulling smaller packs. You don’t need to go for those absurd giga-pulls where nobody – not even the DPS – has any idea what’s going on or what should be interrupted. The worst recent example was the very first pull in Stone Vault, where the tank (or also the DPS) just goes full Leeeeeroy Jenkins and charges into the first tunnel, pulling every mob in sight.

And let’s be honest: no regular tank has done those so-called “surgical single pulls” since Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King.
It’s a myth kept alive by impatient DPS players – a relic from the Vanilla days that just refuses to die.