Goblin Mount - Goblin Trikes
Someone pointed out in a mail that the only screenshots of the Goblin mount I posted on the front page were awful, and he was right. As far as we know, the Goblin racial mount will be a Trike and just like any racial mount, the Goblin Trike Key and Goblin Turbo-Trike will be usable by all races.

Nothing about the Worgen mount for the moment. (I know you're going to ask)

Goblin Trike

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Goblin Turbo-Trike

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Exciting talent trees so far
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Blue Tracker)
There was another thread on this topic that kind of turned into the "DK neglect" thread, so I thought I would start a new one on the original topic.

We're interested in opinions on which current Cataclysm talent trees you find the most exciting.

Ground rules:

1) It isn't of much use to us if you like a talent tree because of one particular ability. That tells us little about the talent tree as a whole.

2) Likewise, your opinion won't count as much (in our minds anyway) if you like a talent tree just because it has all the talents you wish *your* class had. In that same vein, this is probably one case where you're more objective when you find that you like your own talent tree rather than just being all wistful about someone else's toys.

3) Please try and stick to the talent trees themselves and not use this thread for your laundry list of ideas to improve your class.

4) Brevity is the soul of wit.

Another way to think about this: Which classes benefited the most (in the sense of coolness, not necessarily raw power) from the talent overhaul?


Is it equally valid to discuss the opposite of this? As in, what talent trees you feel haven't really been changed at all, or received close to no benefit really of the overall as it's been so far?
The feedback is useful to a degree. The problem is it's really common to see something like "I'm disappointed with my tree. All the other class got a lot of amazing toys and new talents that I really think should be in my tree. All the other classes are incredibly excited about Cataclysm, while the people who play my class are all drunk in the gutter with despair. My tree has changed the least of all the trees and will clearly be terrible in Cataclysm." That kind of thing tends to be a cross between the grass is greener mentality and just campaigning for buffs. If you think you can be really objective about it, then go ahead, but my concern was that we'd get a lot of "My tree is the worst" feedback, which isn't useful when everyone says that about their tree. Ultimately, it's easier for us to make changes when we know what excites you rather than knowing that you want to be buffed (because we can pretty much assume the latter).

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Dispellable Buffs
Many buffs can be dispelled because they are magical effects and because it's strategic to do so. Some buffs can't be dispelled either because it doesn't make sense, because the class couldn't function without the buff, or both. Slice and Dice can't be dispelled, but Savage Roar and Inquisition can be. We might decide to make or all or none of them dispellable. We really need to see more end-game PvP to make that determination. (Source)

Reforging useful stats
It's a matter of degree. Some players will reforge for a sub 1% dps gain, and that's their prerogative. We don't think the stats need to be that close, but they need to be somewhat close. If Ret paladins perfer crit to haste (or Enhacement prefer haste to mastery, etc. etc.) then that's okay so long as crit doesn't provide twice the dps per stat point as haste. If you're willing to take a previous tier's gear because the stat budget is more optimal, then we've got a problem, as we had a few times in the LK content. (Source)

Breaking crowd controls with melee AE
This is a consideration for many players though. A Prot warrior can't just merrily Thunder Clap no matter what -- they have to evaluate their surroundings, decide if it's appropriate to move slightly farther away, or if they just need to forgo their AE attack for the time being. If Crusader Strike constantly cleaved everything, then that would be really annoying. Having to sometimes drop a 15 sec cooldown ability out of your rotation (assuming you can't move or anything) shouldn't be that big a deal. There are no fights that I can remember off the top of my head where you need to keep a target CC'd in the middle of the melee for long periods of time, and if there are any, they are fairly rare. You should be thankful for the opportunity to sometimes respond to your surroundings by doing different things rather than always mashing the same buttons like you are dashing out a song on a piano. (Source)

Class Roles
You guys worry way too much about what buckets you're supposed to be in. It seems every time I come to the forums, I am asked to define someone's role.

In PvE, the only roles are tank, dps and healing. In PvP, the only roles are dps and healing (except for very specific circumstances like tanking Drek in AV). Situationally you might be called upon to carry a flag or defend a tower, but that's what you're doing at the moment, not what your talent spec is all about. There are 30 talent trees. They're all a little different. PvP doesn't have positions like quarterback, grenadier, left fielder, drum major or striker. Use all of the abilities you have in order to support your allies and be successful. If you're a Ret paladin, you should focus on melee dps, because that's where your strongest abilities lie.

Sometimes when I do try and explain how we think a spec should work, I often regret it. I'll say something like how Ret is supposed to be a melee dps class, and keep getting asked "Then why do we have heals?" or "Why should someone take me over a rogue if I'm just melee?" Trying too hard to label things is always going to result in a simplistic answer.

I'm not trying to dismiss the question. It's just not the way we think about things. (Source)

Death Knight (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Death Knights neglected in Cata?
"Neglect" is one of those words that typically makes developers roll their eyes and skip over to the next post. Just so you know.

Even the original DK trees are not very old compared to all the others, so in that sense, they didn't have so many layers of build up cruft that needed shaking off. We've changed up some of the mechanics that weren't working and got rid of some of the boring passive damage, but overall we didn't feel the need to replace talents like say Rime, Dirge or Killing Machine.

I'm just saying that it shouldn't come as much surprise that the most recently designed tree didn't need as much overhauling as say warrior and mage, which hadn't changed much since vanilla. (Source)

Druid (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Can't use Shred on unusual raid encounters (Kologarn)
When we make an entire instance full of Kologarns then it will be a problem. I think you'll be fine if you can't manage maximum dps on every raid boss. I think the game loses far more when we can't make original bosses with unusual mechanics that we gain by having every dps spec do about the same relative damage on every fight. (Source)

Shred position prereq
PvP is rarely ever decided by someone's long term sustained dps though. It has a lot more to do with making the right decision at the right time.

In PvE there is no question that Shred is superior, but in most fights you can Shred. Those few fights where you can't Shred aren't ubiquitous enough to feel like a big deal. If you just find it too difficult to always get behind a creature to be able to Shred, then I'm not sure what to tell you. We don't think this problem is so widespread that Ferals are at a huge disadvantage overall. We agree that Feral has a really high skill cap in Lich King, but that's more do to the John Madden nature of the rotation than to Shred's positional requirement, and it's also something we've taken steps to improve in Cataclysm.

Many specs can't perform their highest 100% potential when mobs are moving or when they have to step out of the fire, but we aren't about to change those in order to make things easier on the player. I think raiding is plenty easy to be honest, unless you're talking about the more challenging heroic-mode encounters in which, yeah, we're asking you to step it up a little. (Source)

Innervate is now based on YOUR mana, not the target's mana. GC specifically stated this makes Innervate useless for Ferals, as they do not want Ferals helping Healers in their mana management.
That's not actually what I said. I said that we wanted Feral's Innervate to be less powerful than Balance and Restoration, because we don't want "stack Ferals" to be the solution for healers who overheal a lot. Your Innervate will still be valued (probably more valued, all things considered), but it won't be and shouldn't be the magic pill that gets you a raid slot. (Source)

Hunter (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
New Multi-Shot
Our current version of Multi-Shot has not target cap. It's a little like Fan of Knives. (Source)

Paladin (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Seal Damage
There's no evidence of that though. You're just fretting. We nerfed Seal damage recently because Ret paladins were beating everyone on damage meters. We aren't spending much effort on numbers yet, but we need them to be reasonable enough so that playtesters don't do unusual things that they wouldn't do when the numbers are tuned more accurately. (Source)

Holy Power on white attacks?
Holy Power on white attacks was too unpredictable to the point of annoying. Imagine you have 2 Holy Power, start to push Crusader Strike and then at that instant get a white attack proc. Now you have wasted your 1.5 sec GCD *and* wasted Holy Power because you're technically at 4 now. Having Holy Power tied to yellow attacks is at least the kind of thing you can train yourself to watch out for. If you aren't hitting any buttons, then you aren't going to get Holy Power for example. You can notice after every button mash if you got that extra proc or not -- they aren't just happening out of the blue.

Stacking haste for fast Templar Verdicts
If hitting TV after 23 seconds qualifies as burst, then I think we'll be fine. Yes, once in awhile a Ret might get off a 32K Templar's Verdict, but that's not going to global anyone.

[...] Haste for most melee grants them more resources. Ret still isn't super dependent on mana though. It will be limiting enough that you can't spam heals or expensive spells like Consecrate, but it won't be so attractive that if we incorporated a haste to mana mechanic that it would at all be attractive.

Haste for casters makes their spells cast faster, but again you're doing so little of that that it won't be something you really need.

So neither of those mechanics works for Ret paladins. You'll get more damage from autoattacks of course, but so do the other melee. Tying haste to Crusader Strike cooldown is more consistent with the "haste lets you do more" model for the other melee. (There are no general mechanics that let haste lower the cooldown of something, so you're technically inaccurate in that sense.)

Finally, we could have just made the haste affects Crusader Strike cooldown a core mechanic. We made it a talent because we found in playtesting that some players liked CS at a predictable 4.5 sec cooldown and others appreciated having the cooldown come faster with haste. (Source)

Interesting Rotations
"Interesting" is in the eye of the beholder, so that's sort of a hard point to argue. We do think it's more complex though. Part of the problem is it's rather difficult for anyone to screw up the Ret rotation on live. If you hit things when they come off cooldown, you'll do pretty competitive damage. You have no resource to worry about and it's pretty hard to throw your rotation off for very long.

The change to Holy Power and adding spells like Inquisition and Zealotry means there is a lot more to juggle. If you let Inquisition fall or you aren't prepared to maximize Zealotry uptime, then you aren't playing to your full potential. If you don't hit TV when you get 3 Holy Power, or if you religiously hit TV but eclipse buttons like Judgement in the meantime, then you're not playing optimally.

Basically we are now engineering opportunities for players to make a mistake. If nobody can make a mistake, then there really is no test of skill and no opportunity for anyone to get better. That's the "faceroll" rep that the tree sometimes gets saddled with -- no matter what you do, you'll end up doing high damage. In Cataclysm, that won't be the case.

If you find you can master the new rotation trivially, then congratulations, you'll be one of the better paladins out there. I am very confident however that not everyone will be able to do so, and so Ret paladins who do a lot of damage will get more respect for being good players than for having picked the right class on the character select screen. (Source)

Retribution Rotation
Imagine you did nothing but Crusader Strike and Templar's Verdict. With no haste, you can do a Templar's Verdict every 13.5 seconds. With enough haste to lower Crusader Strike to 4.4 seconds, you can do a Templar's Verdict every 13.2 seconds. In the space in between Crusader Strikes you will be able to Judge and use Holy Wrath and sometimes get Exorcism procs. You might also use free cycles for utility abilities depending on the situation. But your rotation should never be so full that every Crusader Strike must land every 4.5 sec or its wasted. It might be wasted sometimes, but not so often that Sanctity of Battle is an unattractive talent. (Source)

[...] I'm going to leave out the Exorcisms, because they aren't predictable.

Here is a 4.5 cooldown:

0s: Crusader Strike (back at 4.5)
1.5: Judgement (back at 9.5)
3.0: Holy Wrath (back at 18)
4.5: Crusader Strike (back at 9)
6.0: (Hopefully Exorcism)
9.0: Crusader Strike (back at 13.5)
10.5: Inquisition (back at 40.5)
12.0: Judgement (back at 20)
13.5: Crusader Strike (back at 18)
15.0: (Hopefully Exorcism)
18.0: Crusader Strike (back at 22.5)
19.5: Holy Wrath (back at 34.5)
21.0: Judgement (back at 29)
22.5: Crusader Strike (back at 27)
24.0: Templar's Verdict
27.0: Crusader Strike (back at 31.5)
29.0: Judgement (back at 37)

Here is a 4.2 cooldown:

0s: Crusader Strike (back at 4.2)
1.5: Judgement (back at 9.5)
3.0: Holy Wrath (back at 18)
4.5: Crusader Strike (back at 8.7)
6.0: (Hopefully Exorcism)
8.7: Crusader Strike (back at 12.9)
10.2: Inquisition (back 40.2)
11.7: Judgement (back at 19.7)
13.2: Crusader Strike (back at 17.4)
15.7: (Hopefully Exorcism)
17.4 : Crusader Strike (back at 21.6)
18.9: Holy Wrath (back at 33.9)
20.4: Judgement (back at 28.4)
21.9: Crusader Strike (back at 26.3)
23.4: Templar's Verdict

Like Snozberries, I did that math quickly so I may have screwed up somewhere, but assuming I did not, your hardest hitting ability is available 0.6 sec earlier. Not a huge dps increase overtime, but probably comparable to an equivalent amount of crit rating (given that this is not the only haste benefit). (Source)

Priest (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Lightwell Range
15 yards. (Source)

Lightwell vs. Health Stones
Healthstones are good and good players use them. If bad players continue to ignore Lightwell, we can live with that. If it becomes as useful as a Healthstone, perfect.

Also note that ignoring a Healthstone (or Lightwell) will be essentially like casting a mana drain on your healer, which is not the case today. (Source)

The MMO Report
Look, it's monday! Hello MMO Report!

Dark Legacy Comic #253 and Teh Gladiators #162 + #163 are out!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Goblin Trike, Blue Posts, MMO Report, Comics started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 137 Comments
  1. thatguy181's Avatar
    Still hate the trikes. Only reason I'll even be buying them is for them being a very easy last four to my 100 mounts achievement.

    Glad I'll be able to fly any and everywhere. My main will be riding a rocket like a proper goblin, not some silly tricycle.
  1. Aberration's Avatar
    Love the mounts!
  1. Grenth's Avatar
    You know, I'd believe the trike were the goblin mount if they had actually announced it as such and had more colors for it, but it's just been stated that all races can use it? Last I checked, Alliance were not on the name list for people who could use Horde mounts, making me believe that the trike is an engineering mount probably creatable for level 20 and 40.
  1. mtawney1313's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daez View Post

    How can you nerf both Innervate and Shred and expect the outcome to be anything less than raids not taking feral cats. If your dps sucks and you lose any really unique raid utility no guild is going to give you a raiding spot. They seem to like the idea of all druids being either restoration or balance.
    Because battle rez isnt enough? If they had both brez AND a strong innervate raids would just stack feral druids and healers would never go oom.

    I do not know how the numbers pan out in the beta, but I can say that with the strong utility feral already provides, what is going to stop a raid leader from bringing three feral druids instead of three rogues?

    "GUYS, we need more rogues for SMOKE BOMB"


    And if you are incapable of standing behind your target in a five man or raid, then you might want to consider going boomkin afterall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daez View Post
    Also, how can you make it so that a tank can only single target and still allow trash to 1-2 shot players. Its a horrible design. Its bad enough we have to focus on cc, but now tanks have a cool down on their aoe, and it still breaks crowd control, so it will be impossible to use on pull.
    It's not a horrible design. It's the BC design that actually required players to make use of their CC and not smash their aoe button every time trash was pulled. Basically, the group has to *gasp* work together to *gasp* coordinate an attack. The tank takes initial threat with his or her aoe ability and every dps focuses on killing ONE target at a time (Kill skull and then x, sheep moon, sap square). I can't even do a heroic anymore because the challenge is being able to stay awake while I spam fan of knives and evasion tank bosses for bad tanks.

    Hard stuff I know.
  1. Hexme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasz View Post
    " We nerfed Seal damage recently because Ret paladins were beating everyone on damage meters. "
    That's because ret aura is doing 280% damage and not 3% like it's meant to.

    @Hexme, they are talking about test realms.
    If im not mistaken they cap isnt lvl 85 on beta, then its 5 mans....yeah ret paladins are awesome in 5 mans, come back to me when they start putting in raids.
  1. lolcantdothat's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Entalpia View Post
    I don't care if I'm going to get banned for that statement >.>
    Are Paladin Players really so retarded that they need their own rotation explained in Blue Post ? Really ? What's next a Blue post Video how to tank as a paladin ? Or maybe they will draw you a healing sequence in Paint >.>
    It's really getting ridiculous, when Blizz change something about other classes, no discussion or a small one to show where they stand, when they change something about Paladins they have to apologise and try not to get eaten >.> *sigh*....

    Love the trikes, my goblin will be proud for 60 lvls before i get Flying mount, useless after, except the stable achievement.

    And Hunters Multi shoot looks interesting.
    No man, its not just you, some that actually post are just as retarded as those who dont know what a forum is. LOLZ
  1. Civfanata's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Daez View Post
    Every time I read posts form blues they just get dumber and dumber and I just lose more and more hope. Two things here...

    How can you nerf both Innervate and Shred and expect the outcome to be anything less than raids not taking feral cats. If your dps sucks and you lose any really unique raid utility no guild is going to give you a raiding spot. They seem to like the idea of all druids being either restoration or balance.

    Also, how can you make it so that a tank can only single target and still allow trash to 1-2 shot players. Its a horrible design. Its bad enough we have to focus on cc, but now tanks have a cool down on their aoe, and it still breaks crowd control, so it will be impossible to use on pull.

    At this point, I'm getting less and less inspired about returning to the game.
    I remember when a pull went like....

    Mage(s) poly pulled. Hunter would kite or trap something. Warrior would just demo shout and they all come to him. The just tab target and sunder dps would wait till 3 sunders went up then DPS go!
  1. oBLACKIECHANoo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    My ICC-264 geared priest had 35k hp unbuffed the second he logged into the beta. Getting to 50k hp at 85 in blues/greens does not seem unreasonable.
    by lvl 83 in the beta even cloth wearer's are on 60k so by the time tanks get to 85 and get the best gear around they wil easily have 100k hp.
  1. Triggers's Avatar
    I personally love the mounts.
  1. ashblond's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chareoss View Post
    Ok so we have a Ret Pally rotation in blue text, showing that we can use our MAIN dps ability after TWENTY FOUR seconds of combat. Let me be the first to say 'LOL'. Now, I would like to see blue text on how that would go in PVP. Man, I really hope crusader strike hits hard, and Inquisition is such a crappy buff that it won't be used in PVP, coz 24 second of player versus player is a LONG. TIME. amirite?
    Already started to worry about ret dps in Cata? Did you actually read the blue post?

    ----We nerfed Seal damage recently because Ret paladins were beating everyone on damage meters.

    If every ret is worrying and LOL like you, no wonder this class is getting changed 50 times a day, and yet still a mess after 5 years.
  1. hammybiter's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by deplorable View Post
    when MMO Champion released that 8,000 items list of stuff included in the latest beta build both the keys to the goblin trikes were in it. i wasn't too keen. i mean trikes.

    i quite like them, obviously a very "alliance have gnomes with mechstriders horde will have goblins with mechanical trikes", remember when they were different paladins/shamans different priest spells..... good times.

    Told you more, and more paladin stuff would be incoming... blizz still haven't got it right, except more soon !

    DK neglect - am i the only one laughing. Everytime i see a DK tank, i shudder inwardly (for good reason) and everytime i see a DK i eye roll. Very few good DKs. Less is good. Until another hero class appears. DK had their "moment" with wrath not every expansion can focus on them :P

    So happy they got those trikes instead of the hot-rods.. If gnomes get crap mechano-striders, then their equivalents can have a ugly mount..
  1. ChaosWolf's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Flappy View Post
    No, they get trikes. They are called trikes, not 3 wheeled choppers. Choppers are not related to trikes in any way. Understand?

    Oh, but of course.
  1. Lemons's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosWolf View Post
    No self-respecting biker would be caught dead riding that thing.
  1. wowremy's Avatar
    where the pic of kerrigan in the goblin mounts???
  1. Serj Tankian's Avatar
    The mounts look quite nice, can't wait for CATA to go live.

    Oh, the joy of farming new achievements. ^_^
  1. Shishca's Avatar
    i am so gonna grind rep to get the goblin trike for my warlock
  1. Buzzinjoe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
    I take issue with Blizz asking people "what OTHER tree do you like best"...how the hell are we supposed to know that? I have two level 80 characters that I play seriously...and between them I've only played three of their trees. I don't see myself as qualified to comment on the other 27 trees, so I don't, and I don't see how asking people to rate things they have no experience in is going to help the quality of the game. This seems like a stopgap to get people to stop whining about their own trees so GC can have some quiet time.
    Or maybe it's a way to try and get the opinion of people who are qualified. They should have thought about that before handing out beta invites to the biggest morons currently playing this game. I have yet to see beta footage made by a player with a minimum of skill. They're all shit and don't understand their classes. I don't see how their feedback can be valuable in any way.

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