Vortex Pinnacle Video, Companion Pets, Blue Posts,

Now don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the video and efforts by this guy, but could he possibly complain about anything else? It's a 5-man dungeon for crying out loud. 5-man dungeons need to be just hard enough to give true casual players a challenge, but should ultimately be puggable. These aren't raids...not every trash pack needs CC and not every boss needs 5 separate mechanics to avoid. For a person who is obviously a dedicated 25-man raider, it seems very silly to run through the first version of a 5-man dungeon in a beta and complain about every little thing.

5-man dungeons aren't created for the hardcore raider, they are simply a means to an end. For everyone else in this game who are casual and might not even raid, ever, there are 5-man dungeons which possibly give a pretty good challenge. Raiders who go into 5-man's and complain about how easy they are is on the same level as a casual who goes into a raid and complains about how hard it is.

moar paladin stuff please

the blood elf paladins are not yet satisfied!

Originally Posted by caervek

Yay we can now get a flying rat pet lol, It would be funny if they died when you go into a city (they are culled in real life because their classed as vermin)

In what country do you live? Seagulls aren't vermin or culled where I live.

I like when Totalbiscuit says that all classes have crowd control. Yeah right what about warriors? o.O

Originally Posted by tobokke

I like when Totalbiscuit says that all classes have crowd control. Yeah right what about warriors? o.O

Intimidating shout :P

Originally Posted by Ikkatsu

HAhahaha... you're serious?

Heroic Strike and Heart Strike both use the primary resource.

Unfortunately, our Rune Dump ability to generate threat is only viable after a Dodge or a Parry.

So yes, theoretically, Heart Strike is our version of Heroic Strike in that is is ALWAYS available as long as you have resources for it.

If you want to compare Rune Strike to Heroic Strike, then i can do nowt but laugh.

So again, would you consider it to be fair that Heroic Strike share a 10 second cooldown with Last Stand? Or Devestate share a 10 second cooldown with Shield Wall?

Cooldowns that require Runes:
Rune Tap - Blood Rune (Means we can't use Heart Strike for 10 seconds)
Vampiric Blood - Blood Rune (Means we can't use Heart Strike for 10 seconds)
Bone Shield - Unholy Rune (Means we can't use Plague Strike for 10 seconds)

For example, say there is an encounter that does an ability at random intervals (still announces it, but cannot be tracked by DBM or whatever). I've just used Plague Strike & Heart Strike, then the boss announces he is about to use omgwtfbbq attack. I cannot pop Vampiric Blood or Bone Shield due to using my only available runes for the attacks 3 seconds before hand.

All Blizzard need to do is give those three abiltiies a Runic Power cost instead, like Icebound Fortitude, and everything will be sorted.

Blizzard seem to want to make the DPS/PvP side of DKs insanely OP, whilst making the Tank side insanely gimped (compared to other tank classes).

Dont even bother awnsering to that guy...

Originally Posted by Cirawin

Now don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the video and efforts by this guy, but could he possibly complain about anything else? It's a 5-man dungeon for crying out loud. 5-man dungeons need to be just hard enough to give true casual players a challenge, but should ultimately be puggable. These aren't raids...not every trash pack needs CC and not every boss needs 5 separate mechanics to avoid. For a person who is obviously a dedicated 25-man raider, it seems very silly to run through the first version of a 5-man dungeon in a beta and complain about every little thing.

5-man dungeons aren't created for the hardcore raider, they are simply a means to an end. For everyone else in this game who are casual and might not even raid, ever, there are 5-man dungeons which possibly give a pretty good challenge. Raiders who go into 5-man's and complain about how easy they are is on the same level as a casual who goes into a raid and complains about how hard it is.

Sorry but what has being casual or hardcore have anything to do with how hard 5 man dungeons should be? Casual means you play not that much but it doesn't mean you are an idiot who can't cast polymorph. It also doesn't mean that raids are hard for you, there are also casual raiders you know.

If I were casual, whatever that means, I would want to have hard 5 man dungeons that I can finish within 30 minutes. It means I have a challange and I won't get bored that fast with doing those dungeons. More entertainment for me since I don't raid or barely raid.

And 5 man dungeons are made for every player also hardcore players or raiders. They need to do those dungeons to obtain gear to raid.

---------- Post added 2010-09-07 at 01:44 PM ----------

Originally Posted by agelos

Dont even bother awnsering to that guy...

Why not? Maybe he could formulate his reply a little bit more mature and better but I think he makes a good point.

Originally Posted by Cirawin

Now don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the video and efforts by this guy, but could he possibly complain about anything else? It's a 5-man dungeon for crying out loud. 5-man dungeons need to be just hard enough to give true casual players a challenge, but should ultimately be puggable. These aren't raids...not every trash pack needs CC and not every boss needs 5 separate mechanics to avoid. For a person who is obviously a dedicated 25-man raider, it seems very silly to run through the first version of a 5-man dungeon in a beta and complain about every little thing.

5-man dungeons aren't created for the hardcore raider, they are simply a means to an end. For everyone else in this game who are casual and might not even raid, ever, there are 5-man dungeons which possibly give a pretty good challenge. Raiders who go into 5-man's and complain about how easy they are is on the same level as a casual who goes into a raid and complains about how hard it is.

So I guess you think 5-mans should be boring walkovers that cater to bad players as opposed to interesting, challenging pieces of content that properly prepare you to raid?

I don't think your philosophy makes any sense. Easy != Casual. A casual player is someone who cannot spend large chunks of regular time in the game, not someone who is bad at the game. It's pretty insulting to the millions of casual players to suggest that the game should be dumbed down to cater to them, since they never asked for that to begin with.

There are times like this I am thankful that I am in the beta and able to do my duty as a beta tester in providing feedback, as opposed to somebody who would be happy to just say 'this is all fine Blizz, launch it like this' and have another Wrath on our hands.

Originally Posted by Gilian

Why not? Maybe he could formulate his reply a little bit more mature and better but I think he makes a good point.

What point to make would that be?

It started wtih "Your class is new, you shouldnt ask to be fixed".

Then it turned into "My guilds DK MT is fine, l2p".

All ive done is provide examples of how it is broken compared to classes in the same role. I never said it cannot do the job at ALL, but compared to others its is considerbly broken in terms that survival is down to pot luck under circumstances.

Originally Posted by Ikkatsu

HAhahaha... you're serious?

Heroic Strike and Heart Strike both use the primary resource.

Unfortunately, our Rune Dump ability to generate threat is only viable after a Dodge or a Parry.

So yes, theoretically, Heart Strike is our version of Heroic Strike in that is is ALWAYS available as long as you have resources for it.

If you want to compare Rune Strike to Heroic Strike, then i can do nowt but laugh.

So again, would you consider it to be fair that Heroic Strike share a 10 second cooldown with Last Stand? Or Devestate share a 10 second cooldown with Shield Wall?

Cooldowns that require Runes:
Rune Tap - Blood Rune (Means we can't use Heart Strike for 10 seconds)
Vampiric Blood - Blood Rune (Means we can't use Heart Strike for 10 seconds)
Bone Shield - Unholy Rune (Means we can't use Plague Strike for 10 seconds)

For example, say there is an encounter that does an ability at random intervals (still announces it, but cannot be tracked by DBM or whatever). I've just used Plague Strike & Heart Strike, then the boss announces he is about to use omgwtfbbq attack. I cannot pop Vampiric Blood or Bone Shield due to using my only available runes for the attacks 3 seconds before hand.

All Blizzard need to do is give those three abiltiies a Runic Power cost instead, like Icebound Fortitude, and everything will be sorted.

Blizzard seem to want to make the DPS/PvP side of DKs insanely OP, whilst making the Tank side insanely gimped (compared to other tank classes).

Ok but in that situation, as a quality tank who KNOWS said random omgwtfbbqpwn ability is coming...would you not then keep one of your runes available to hit your cooldown so you can survive?

Plus I highly doubt we will see many such abilities, as it seems that they want your healers running out of mana to be what mainly causes a wipe, not the tank getting gibbed in a GCD or two. There will be some, but not to the extent that WotLK raids had them.

I am sure this is a major issue for you, but the way you are presenting it is "I should be able to maintain optimal threat generation AND optimal survivability without having to manage my resources, even though I play a resource limited class" It just comes off as really whiny.

Prince of Persia rip off
They even tried to put some spinning obstacles there ( PoP style )

Yes Biscuit 2 of those 3 bosses are quite "boring", they look good but they need one little disturbing ability more.

I'm the holiday armadillo!!!

This Paladin/Warrior spam is ridiculous. Are Paladins getting some changes? Sure. But Hunters are pretty much getting a COMPLETE overhaul and the only thing we have heard in weeks is "We're removing Volley and Rhumba because we don't like it."

That's it. No discussion on our mechanics, which way they want the class to go, what color blood elves should dye their hair. Nothing.

Oh, one of our trees is completely broken and our pets have not even gotten their first pass in terms of mechanics yet. But that's okay, let's answer some questions about what mount looks the best for a Blood Elf Paladin in Cataclysm and which is better, pony tail up or down.

Originally Posted by Gurbz

Ok but in that situation, as a quality tank who KNOWS said random omgwtfbbqpwn ability is coming...would you not then keep one of your runes available to hit your cooldown so you can survive?

Plus I highly doubt we will see many such abilities, as it seems that they want your healers running out of mana to be what mainly causes a wipe, not the tank getting gibbed in a GCD or two. There will be some, but not to the extent that WotLK raids had them.

I am sure this is a major issue for you, but the way you are presenting it is "I should be able to maintain optimal threat generation AND optimal survivability without having to manage my resources, even though I play a resource limited class" It just comes off as really whiny.

I bolded the two points you seem not to grasp. How am i supposed to plan ahead for an ability that is random and not on a timer?

And i am not saying i should be able to maintain optimal threat and survivability without managing my resources. What i am saying is that we should have equal ability to maintain optimal threat and survivability as other tanks.

Druids and Warriors cooldowns are completely FREE (minus Frenzied Regeneration for Druids - but i have never known a Druid to EVER be rage starved [i was Feral before rerolling DK]).

Paladins use mana for theirs i believe, but for a Paladin Tank... mana is pretty much infinate if he knows how to play.

Im not even asking for ours to be made free, just given a cost (Runic Power instead of Runes) which is more reliable.

Originally Posted by Hugh

I'm the holiday armadillo!!!

+1 for the reference.

Originally Posted by TotalBiscuit

So I guess you think 5-mans should be boring walkovers that cater to bad players as opposed to interesting, challenging pieces of content that properly prepare you to raid?

I don't think your philosophy makes any sense. Easy != Casual. A casual player is someone who cannot spend large chunks of regular time in the game, not someone who is bad at the game. It's pretty insulting to the millions of casual players to suggest that the game should be dumbed down to cater to them, since they never asked for that to begin with.

There are times like this I am thankful that I am in the beta and able to do my duty as a beta tester in providing feedback, as opposed to somebody who would be happy to just say 'this is all fine Blizz, launch it like this' and have another Wrath on our hands.

Defining a casual, especially in WoW, as simply someone who doesn't spend as much time playing is a bit shortsighted. Being casual means you aren't min/max'ing your character, like you do. Sure, if you and your fellow raiding guildmates go into a new 5-man, you find it easy because you know exactly what gear and stats you need to get the absolute most dps and heals. A casual who plays to have fun is more likely to equip "wrong" gear for their class, not gem correctly (or at all), etc. Therefore, these 5-mans are going to be a ton harder for them.

My point is that 5-man dungeons aren't going to be tuned to give a hardcore min/max'ing 25-man end-game raider a challenge. They never will. So you complaining about every single thing is pretty much pointless, because they will ALWAYS be easy to you, no matter what. If a 5-man dungeon was a hard challenge to you, then god help all the casuals out there (that's a round-a-bout compliment, basically).

Now, if you made the same complaints about a heroic version being extremely easy in tier 10 content, then I'd be perfectly fine with your complaints. If it were a raid, then preach on brother. But it's a regular 5-man dungeon for crying out loud. For hardcore players such as yourself, you're going to find every single one boring. That's just how it will be.

Its like this, Blizz did exactly what they said they were going to do, make these 5 levels from 80-85 just like the 10 levels from 70-80, it may be only 5 levels but the difficulty is going to ramp up in those 5 levels just the same as if it were 10. I think people are not realizing that this isnt just another 5 levels tacked on in the same style as the last 80. A single level increase for your char, or gear, is going to be more significant than its numerical value would indicate from prior leveling experiences. The difference between level 84 and 85 is a lot more significant than 79 and 80 was, both for chars and gear.

We also have the issue of people that have facerolled their way to full epics in less than a month that are mad that they actually have to do something other than spam their AOE button, but thats a whole other story.

glad i'm not the only one to see the paladin bias

and i remember thinking it was going to end with WOTLK /sigh

This whole zone reminds me of the Sky City Dungeon in Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Not so much the mobs ofc, but the way the dungeon is constructed as well as the layout with the wind and the gusts. Love the way it looks and had to be one of the most amazing looking zones/dungeons since Tempest Keep or Black Temple.

Ad far at the over-emphasis on pally and war posts and lack thereof other classes, maybe it's just the way it will be prior to the release of cata. My main is a warlock and while I have been perusing around looking for hot lock news I havent really come up on anything special. Yes I am a member of the warlocks den but its always nice to see certain things on the front page, while I agree other classes are getting an overhaul, the lock changes to Soul Shards are crucial and important and they are changing the way the class that I love functions at its most basic level. Time will tell, all I know is that nothing will be perfect when cata comes out and when it does release, warlocks will be the first to be nerfed per usual.