Update - Added today's Blue posts.

Cataclysm Currency Changes Explained
In a nutshell:
  • Emblems of Triumph and Emblems of Frost will be converted into Justice Points.
  • All PvE emblems and badges below Frost and Triumph will be converted into gold. This even includes legacy badges, like Badges of Justice.
  • Arena Points, Honor Points, any leftover Battleground Marks of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Venture Coins, and Spirit Shards will be converted into the new Honor Points.
  • Rated Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds won't be available again until Season 9 (shortly after the release of Cataclysm), when they can be entered to win the higher-tier PvP Conquest Points.

Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
As we discussed in our previous announcement (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...Id=24401796793), we're refining the currency systems used for purchasing PvE and PvP items in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, and the transition to this new system will take place in two stages. Today, we're going into more detail on how these changes will be rolled out, so if you haven't yet, make sure to check out the prior article to get up to speed on the currency names.

One change of note since that original announcement is that we've changed the name of the low-tier PvE currency from Hero Points to Justice Points. The original announcement post has been updated to reflect this.

Out With the Old

In the upcoming 4.0 patch we'll begin the first stage of the conversion to the new currencies. Emblems of Triumph and Emblems of Frost will be converted into Justice Points. For this initial conversion there will be a soft cap of points you can have, with a hard cap enforced later as detailed below. All PvE emblems and badges below Frost and Triumph will be converted into gold. This even includes legacy badges, like Badges of Justice. If any of these older currencies are converted into gold, the player will receive it through an in-game letter.

At this time any bosses a player defeats that are level-appropriate to them (and previously awarded badges or emblems upon defeat) will award them with the new Justice Points. Similarly, any items that previously cost emblems or badges of any type will now cost Justice Points instead.

On the PvP side, Season 8 will end with the release of patch 4.0, and all Arena Points, Honor Points, any leftover Battleground Marks of Honor, Stone Keeper's Shards, Venture Coins, and Spirit Shards will be converted into the new Honor Points. The new Honor Point pool will also have a soft cap for these conversions, but a hard cap will be enforced later. At the time of conversion, items that previously cost Honor or Arena Points will be sold in exchange for the new Honor Points. Rated Arenas and Rated Battlegrounds won't be available again until Season 9 (shortly after the release of Cataclysm), when they can be entered to win the higher-tier PvP Conquest Points.

In addition, purchasing any item with these secondary currencies (Honor Points and Justice Points) will now require that the purchaser meet the item's minimum level requirement.

It's important to note that these conversions are not 1:1, but are indicative of the level and relative worth of each before the conversion to the new point systems. For example, Stone Keeper's Shards will convert into more Honor Points than Spirit Shards.

Tip of the Cap

While we previously announced that there's a limit to the amount of these new currencies you can stockpile, we're providing a grace period in the form of a soft cap. This soft cap will allow the initial conversion to push the amount owned over the cap, but will not allow any further points to be earned (or returned through item refunds) until enough points are spent to put you below the hard cap.

For instance, a player has 3000 Emblems of Triumph, and 1200 Emblems of Frost; at the time of conversion they'll be given 4200 Justice Points. The hard cap for Justice Points is 4000, so that player won't be able to earn any more Justice Points until he or she spends enough points to reduce the total to under 4000. This also applies to the new PvP Honor Points, which also have a cap of 4000.

Shortly before Cataclysm is released, another patch will enforce the hard cap, marking the second stage of the currency conversion. Any Justice or Honor Points above the hard cap will be converted to gold, and just like in the first stage of the conversion, the player will receive an in-game letter explaining that some of their currencies were converted into gold as well as delivering the gold itself.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Cataclysm Dungeons Difficulty
We want dungeons to be challenging. Not brutal, but challenging. Yes, trying to get us to change our minds on that is going to take some pretty spectacular debate skills on your part given just how much feedback we've received on it over the past year or so. But you can try to explain to us what it is about more challenging 5-player dungeons that threatens you, or what you dislike, and we can try to accommodate you. For example, the dungeons aren't going to be four hour trash-clearing fests like Heroic Shadow Labyrinth. Likewise, we're not going to ask healers to sit on their hands for long stretches of time for fear of wasting mana, because everyone has an efficient spell they can use when nobody is in imminent danger. On the other hand, if you just hate the idea of healers having a resource at all, well that goes against the design of the game. (Source)

Archaeology
There is definitely a large component of Archaeology which should be very attractive to completionists. It's quite awesome though. I think it'll add a lot of flavor to the game without necessarily being one of those "must have X" professions/skills/abilities.

Allowing you to explore some ruins in Azeroth you may have otherwise overlooked and learn more about this world's rich history is something we're very excited about. It has elements that feel a bit like questing, but you have much more freedom to choose how and when you want to explore the world for new artifacts. It's been set up to allow for a fairly simple expansion of content over time as well, so we look forward to giving digging deeper into Archaeology in the future. (Source)

PvP Balancing in 4.0.1 and Arena Season
When the class changes go live, damage is going to be very high relative to health for level 80 characters. We are spending most our PvP balancing effort at level 85, since that by far is what matters most to players. The health pools at 85, decaying combat ratings (because you'll be going from tier 3 gear to tier 0 gear), extra talent points and the 3 new abilities make a huge difference overall.

Since the current PvP season will end when these changes go live, they shouldn't have a lasting impact on ratings, titles and the like. We are prepared to just drop a temporary player damage nerf on all BGs and Arenas if necessary just so things don't feel too silly until everyone can level up to 85.

How things feel at 85 is of far more importance to us. We fully expect to see a lot of posts from freaked out players who imagine 85 will feel just like 80, but it won't. The gain in survivability is substantial. (Source)

Resilience Rating in 4.0.1
20% less damage taken overall by players, pets, minions.
For now, just imagine that it's N less damage taken. The salient point is that resilience will no longer affect crit chance. We don't like the crit (and talents based on crits, etc.) are devalued in high resilience environments.

Health pools grow enormously going from level 80 to 85. Resilience needs to be strong enough that it's still an attractive stat for PvP gear, but you won't blow up in one or two globals* even with low resilience.

* - If you let someone build up towards one of their very powerful attacks, then you deserve what you get. But you shouldn't need to worry about dying the second combat starts unless you're decently outnumbered. (Source)

Shaman (Forums / 3.3.5 Talent Calculator / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Enhancement Changes
In our current Cataclysm build, we have cut the Primal Wisdom talent (and give it as part of the Enhancement passive) and reduced Unleashed Rage from 3 to 2 ranks, but with the same overall effect. That should take care of the extra talent points that the tree seemed to have.

We are still working on making the Searing Totem a little smarter. (Source)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Cataclysm Currency Changes Explained started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 202 Comments
  1. Masqerader's Avatar
    i have 500 badges of justice on my druid(bad rng for raven lord) and 200 on my shaman, any idea on what the rate for conversion from old badges to gold is?
  1. mmoc24c42d1ec8's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kabookiejoez View Post
    i have 500 badges of justice on my druid(bad rng for raven lord) and 200 on my shaman, any idea on what the rate for conversion from old badges to gold is?
    It has allready been stated, that all the math about the conversion rates is posted tomorrow. So just be patient till tomorrow.
  1. mmoc5f0ae10f8f's Avatar
    Can you buy full wrathfull with these honor points without the appropriate arena-rating requirement?
    Wrathfull items I mean weapons and armor,
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Iralien View Post
    So Triumph and Frost becomes Justice Points... which means Triumph = Frost. So while today we can get a maximum of 2 Frost per heroic today... there will be no limit when this change goes in. How odd.

    My #1 question is what currency will we use to buy the current Badge of Justice gear? Gold or Justice Points? Gold means that people could get the gear really, really easily. Justice Points means that you could never get that gear at the appropriate level. I have a Shaman I've just started farming TBC heroics and this is an interesting change...
    Because when 4.0 drops it will, for all intents and purposes, be the next tier of content. Technically Cataclysm will follow the patch by a few weeks, but most people aren't going to spend "Justice Points" on Frost gear when they can save them and get base line Cataclysm Epics with them in a few weeks. From the sounds of things, we will A) get more points per run in Cataclysm, and B) pay a lot more point per item; but a head start is a head start. Yes, you could theoretically use the change to face roll getting a lot of T-10 level gear at the very end of Wrath, but then you'd just replace it all in the early Cataclysm quests, essentially "wasting" those points.
  1. Masqerader's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Limpy View Post
    It has allready been stated, that all the math about the conversion rates is posted tomorrow. So just be patient till tomorrow.

    excellent, didnt read entire post t l. what i get for staying up grinding nothing but thorium brotherhood and zandalar rep
  1. mmoc5011fe1361's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zampaman View Post
    Can you buy full wrathfull with these honor points without the appropriate arena-rating requirement?
    Wrathfull items I mean weapons and armor,
    It doesn't matter how often you post the same question, no one is going to answer you anyway.
  1. mmoc48f034ac8e's Avatar
    The conversion rates were briefly posted on the french forum earlier this morning but the post was pulled and I didn't make a copy of it

    What I remember (and what was quoted by other people) is summed up below :
    1 frost emblem = 2.75 justice points
    1 triumph emblem = 2.75 justice points
    1 other WotLK emblem = 5.5 gold
    1 TBC emblem = just under 2 gold

    1 honor point = 0.024 new honor points
    1 venture coin = 3 new honor points
    1 stone keeper's shard = 1.6 new honor points
    1 arena point = 0.85 new honor points
  1. hythos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Cataclysm Currency Changes Explained
    Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
    As we discussed in our previous announcement (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...Id=24401796793), we're refining the currency systems used for purchasing PvE and PvP items in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, in hopes to force those players whom have cancelled their accounts, to come come back before they lose out on their now meanningless loot and achievements - otherwise they could ride on them forever. Haha you booboo, stick your face in doodoo.
    Fixed.
  1. mmocdc9a613e6e's Avatar
    odd, nobody mentioned that enhancement gets
    3 extra skill points for free
    That's better than a... free boat ride for three
  1. mmoc51324801cd's Avatar
    So when could we expect patch 4.0?
  1. powerstuck's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zampaman View Post
    Can you buy full wrathfull with these honor points without the appropriate arena-rating requirement?
    Wrathfull items I mean weapons and armor,
    I doubt it, because the wrathful is the top arena gear and it will stil be till the season 9 starts. You will be able to buy full wrathful with the new honor points once the season 9 starts and better gear (lvl85) is issued.

    ---------- Post added 2010-09-15 at 12:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    So when could we expect patch 4.0?
    It's the official 4.0.1 patch which was put on public PTR (not the beta) this week, so probably not in the next two weeks, and as we know, blizz said that patch 4.0.3 will be issued prior to Cataclysm official release (making cata 4.0.9 or 4.1???) it should be soon, but not in the next two weeks.
  1. Nathanyel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
    It's the official 4.0.1 patch which was put on public PTR (not the beta) this week, so probably not in the next two weeks, and as we know, blizz said that patch 4.0.3 will be issued prior to Cataclysm official release (making cata 4.0.9 or 4.1???) it should be soon, but not in the next two weeks.
    You're mixing things up, 4.0.3 will be the Cata patch, while 4.0.1 is the preparation patch.
  1. Calaba's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post

    It's the official 4.0.1 patch which was put on public PTR (not the beta) this week, so probably not in the next two weeks, and as we know, blizz said that patch 4.0.3 will be issued prior to Cataclysm official release (making cata 4.0.9 or 4.1???) it should be soon, but not in the next two weeks.
    Yeh, 2 weeks away at least, since it's arena season end, so there'll probably be an announcement (blue sticky post) about that on the official PvP forums.
    But consider this - there's 2 pre-patches this time, and only 4 Wednesdays for them to go live in October. (Assuming they ARE patching on Wednesdays, as with every patch ever!)
    Oh... and I doubt it'll be 4.1 on release day. It'll be 4.0.3, or 4.0.4, or something. Note that we're still on 3.3.5 now - they don't increase numbers that quickly.
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirawin View Post
    Now, Blizzard obviously is not going to give you a ton of justice points to spend on T11 gear, that's what the valor points are for, and I'm guessing that at level 85 we'll see a similar system used to how we earn frost right now. I'm curious as to the need for the justice points at the beginning of a new expansion though, since there isn't really a viable previous tier for a new level 85 to buy. Plus, it doesn't make sense to let people buy way better level 85 gear with points you earned at level 80. That's bad for Blizzard's model of keeping people playing. If I were to guess, I'd say the justice points will simply be like our current Conquest emblems....useless.
    At a guess they'll be like Emblems of Heroism were at the beginning of Wrath. Useful to buy your starter raid set (not Tier which will be bought with the Valor Points or maybe dropped, but the starter Epics and/or Rares that you will use when you first enter the early raids.) Most likely starter raid sets will be made from a combination of Heroic 5 man drops, Justice Point gear, Rep gear, and crafted gear.

    Edit to reduce quote length and Add:

    Quote Originally Posted by mikisulu View Post
    Nothing you do before lvl85 can have any affect on what you can do at lvl85. It is nothing they have done before, just look at what have been done with arena/honor points going from 70 to 80. My bet is that once you reach lvl 85 all of your Justice points get reset, just like your honor points do. This is to make sure everyone has an equal start. With the added limit on what you can buy, to what you can actually use, this guarantees the start to be equal for all. But please try to outsmart GC, and get a headstart by stockpiling worthless crap. The only thing that will carry over is gold.
    Doubt it. There's precedent here. Currently Random Regular Dungeons earn two Badges of Triumph for the first one of the day, and many people have enough badges to buy a tier piece or two as soon as they hit 80. This will be the same. Indications are that the "value" of Justice Points relative to the cost of items is much higher than current badge prices. So if you get a couple hundred Justice Points from your current badges, it's just a small head start on getting your 85 starter raid set when you hit max level. Even people with a thousand or more badges won't be getting more than a piece or two, so it's not a huge bonus, just a little help getting you started.
  1. Gilvoth's Avatar
    Does anyone know what this does to the price of current badge gear? Specifically, I'm currently farming badges for BoA gear for my shammy to help push through to 80 a little quicker plus they're better than anything that is dropping for me in the dungeons. Are BoA's going to be gold since that's what their tier of badges converts to or is everything justice points?
  1. mmocf9e36bd733's Avatar
    Nice, finally a gold turn in for old emblems which I've wanted for ages, got hundreds of the damn things.
  1. Everlightly's Avatar
    Does this mean that all vendor items like T10, gems and saronites etc can be purchased via "justice points" after 4.0.1 hits
  1. Nathanyel's Avatar
    Apparently. Style-T9 for my Tauren paladin just got a lot easier :P
  1. seventhsin's Avatar
    Yes once 4.0.1 hits all the gear from the current Frost emblems and lower will be bought with Justice Points. The conversion rate does seem ridiculous but people aren't taking into consideration how many points you will be getting per daily heroic and assuming you still get 2 points per. The only reason to stockpile the emblems at this moment is you are still going after some T10 gear or BOA items for alts as it does give you a little help in JP. As far as saving them for future Epic gear for lvl 85, this is pointless as in a previous blue post it was stated that once higher gear is implemented all the current JP you have at that moment converts to gold and everyone starts off with a clean slate.
  1. Tobizzhere's Avatar
    I see no reference to the Wintergrasp Commendations?? Because the exchange rate on these seem to be better for the Stonekeepers.. 30 = 2k honor

    have i missed something?

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