Upcoming Tanking Changes - Compiled list
The tanking changes have been updated, I compiled all the changes from the past and new posts in a nice list.
Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
Here are a few additional changes we are making which will be applied in patch 4.0.3a:


  • These changes are all slated for patch 4.0.3a when the shattering of Azeroth takes place, and are not currently implemented on live realms. Some of them may be active in the beta test – the Savage Defense change for example was applied via a hotfix to the beta realms recently.


Death Knight (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Icebound Fortitude -- Damage reduction changed from 30% to 20% (or 60% to 50% talented). Cooldown still 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Savage Defense is massively overpowered on beta and has been dealt with accordingly. Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks. With less damage absorbed, the boss damage can be adjusted downwards. We've reduced the multiplier for attack power on the absorption effect (from 65% to 35%, still modified by mastery) and it no longer procs from periodic critical hits.

  • Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.

  • Survival Instincts -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Holy Shield will be changed to increase block value by 10% (40% total) instead of increasing block chance by 15%. Since this will cause Mastery to become more valuable, the amount of block granted by Mastery will be reduced to 2.25% block chance per point of Mastery, down from 3%.

  • Paladin tanks are not intended to go cap block as fast as they can. It’s fine if you want to do that, but we don’t treat it as “the new defense cap” and we don’t balance paladins assuming they have a 100% block chance. That is something the community identified as being not only possible, but likely, and one of the reasons we changed the way block works for paladins.

  • Guardian of Ancient Kings -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • At level 85, the value of Shield Block decreases as block value generated by Mastery increases. To remedy this, we will convert overflow of block + avoidance that exceeds 100% into critical block chance instead. Along with that change, Shield Block will be reduced to +25% block chance (down from +100%), but this will still yield a net buff for most warriors. Also in response to this change, the amount of block and critical block provided by Mastery will be equalized. Finally, Mastery will now grant 1.5% block chance per point.

  • The new warrior Mastery is 1.5% block and 1.5% critical block per point of mastery.

  • Shield Block will spill over into critical block if any portion of the 25% would have been wasted because your block + dodge + parry is so high already. If you are somehow always over 100% (which will be pretty hard now), you only get the critical block when Shield Block is up. The intent is to make sure Shield Block isn't wasted, not to make sure you have mastery coming out your ears (or any other orifice in the facial region).

  • Shield Block is not intended to be a magic damage cooldown (neither is Blood Shield, which also is physical damage only). We don’t want to duplicate the exact same ability on every tank when we can avoid it. Bosses generally don’t spam out a lot of magic damage on short cooldowns. On the other hand, Shield Block has a much higher up-time than Barkskin. We still believe the Cataclysm raiding environment is going to be a lot less centered around tanks dying to spike damage than players currently experience at level 80. Mitigating a lot of damage to save healer mana can be very valuable in Cataclysm.

  • Vigilance -- No longer reduces damage by 3%, but will still reset Taunt cooldown and provide Vengeance for the warrior.

  • Glyph of Shield Wall -- Now buffs damage reduction by 10% (to 60%), but only adds 1 minute of cooldown.

  • Shield Wall -- Damage reduction changed from 40% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Raid Heroic Mode
You will have to complete the Normal mode of a raid dungeon once before you can switch to Heroic the next week. (Source)

Beta Raid Difficuly
Normal mode raids are currently too easy (with few exceptions). You'll likely be seeing substantial buffs across the board in the next beta patch. (Source)

Removal of the Zul'gurub instance in 4.0.3a
We feel Zul'Gurub will serve the updated old world much better as a new questing area (and potentially a space for future dungeons), rather than an irrelevant instance. We understand there are some cool flavor items there, but that alone just wasn't justification enough to keep the place walled off so a very tiny fraction of the playerbase can continue farming endlessly for these items. One day maybe these items will make their return when the timing and implementation feels right. (Source)

Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?
No. (Source)

Tanking
Dragons damage / Magic Tanking
If Deathwing is anything like our current dragons, he'll do 60% physical damage and 40% magical damage. Dragon breaths never take you down to 100% of your health, so if the tank dies during them, it's probably because she wasn't topped off before hand (from all the physical damage before hand).

We got rid of the magical tank niche early in LK development because it wasn't a strong enough niche and it wasn't fun for groups to have to swap MTs. All four tanks are tanking Lich King and all four tanks will be tanking Deathwing. (Source)

RNG Deaths in WotLK
I agree it worked that way in Lich King. Tanks were often at risk of dying within 2-3 boss hits, often faster than a heal could land. In that environment anything that can prolong your life at all is very valuable, and by extension anything not related to reliably prolonging your life (parry for instance) is not attractive.

This is also something we have set out to change. I understand that you personally don't believe we will change it, and since your vision of what the world will be like is at odds with our vision, it is unsurprising that the changes we make to bring about our vision might not make sense to you.

But if healer mana doesn't matter, our whole combat design collapses. Healers won't value cheap heals. Since mana won't constrain them, overhealing will be common, so they may start devaluing crit as well. DPS specs won't value talents that help them stay alive. And the only way to challenge raids will once again be to clobber tanks so hard that any missed heals will result in tank death. It doesn't have to be this way, and in fact it wasn't this way for much of the game. We were watching the new Nefarian fights and recalling the old Nefarian fights where, in the absence of a berserk timer, the fight could really last for a long time -- maybe 20 minutes or more -- if you had a lot of deaths. The tank wasn't in much danger of RNG dying, so as long as the healers didn't run out of mana, the raid could keep the fight going nearly indefinitely.

As we said above, in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels and adjusted the damage accordingly. (Source)

Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Vengeance and Savage Defense
Vengeance isn't a problem with Savage Defense in our minds. In fact, it works out well because it lets Savage Defense roughly scale the same way blocking scales, rather than being overpowered for 5-player dungeons or underpowered in raids. When you're getting hit the hardest (hard enough to stack Vengeance a lot), you're also blocking a lot.

Savage Defense was just mitigating too much damage in raids though, which is why we have nerfed it. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Shield Block
When those scary moments come, you use Shield Wall. Or Last Stand. Or both. They are often telegraphed far in advance, so you can also get Guardian Spirit and all the other healer cooldowns lined up as well. You don't need Shield Block to withstand those big magical hits, in the same way you didn't need it to survive Fusion Punch. That's not what it's for. It is for reducing damage taken over time so that healers expend less mana over the course of the fight and don't run out. Very few bosses hit for only magical damage, so in that sense Shield Block and block and armor for that matter are what allow your healers to make it through an encounter.

We could consider adding a Shield Block glyph in the future that removes the block but adds magic damage reduction instead, but overall I think you guys are way over-freaking out about this. (Source)

Blizzcon Pre-Sale Shipping Delays
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
Due to an error in our shipping process, BlizzCon items ordered during the pre-sale have been delayed by approximately two weeks. We're expecting all items to now be shipped by November 3.

The intent of the pre-sale is of course to allow you to buy your items ahead of time, and get them as close to BlizzCon as possible, if not before. These issues, while unforeseen, are entirely regrettable and we apologize for any inconvenience they've caused. We're working to get you your goodies as soon as we possibly can.

Thank you for your patience.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Upcoming Tanking Changes Compilation, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 76 Comments
  1. damaniac82's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Deos View Post
    More swiping tanks homogenisation.. ftl.. All the classes are gonna feel the same while tanking.. :[ What's the point in having 4 class tanks then when in essence you all do the same, who cares if that shiled wall is being called icebound fortitude or guardian kings, or having shiled block vs savage defense, when it does exactly the same. Same damage reduction, same cooldown, same duration, same scaling...

    What's the point in playing a bear tank then? If it feels and plays the same as warrior but misses all the glory of shiny armor, badass weapons and shiled, rather being stuck in the same form from level 10 to infinity and beyond.. I could come up with excuse before, "im feral tank because i like its unique combat style and i love to rely on huge HP pool rather than avoidance", now i have nothing to put in defense of bear :[
    THIS. I used to have a warr tank, a pally and a DK and i've loved the differences. Now pally and warr are pretty much the same --> warr retired. I've planned to try a druid for a change (troll voodoo druids ftw), but not sure anymore. Combined with the fact that achievements are character-bound and not account-bound, starting another tank that is basically the same regarding gameplay just feels like a huge waste of time...

    Also, i'm really started to get burned out because of these class revamps. They could have left most classes the way they were in wotlk and add a few more dungeons and BGs instead, but no, they decided to change everything, so we'd get tricked into the idea of having something new... Pff.
  1. Squishie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    Sorry, I think you missed what my post was responding to (the post above). That's why I used quote marks, since I don't think that is the correct word.
    I quoted with you mainly to agree with what you where saying my comments where not really aimed at you
  1. Eaker's Avatar
    I play a Bear Tank as my main and I love it. I never really cared about the damage I did even though as a bear more damage meant more threat. I dont care if they reduce my damage just as long as I still have the threat cause thats all that matters to me as it should. I have five abilities that I used for tanking mainly.....5.....and one aoe......1......that is now a a 6 sec cooldown wtf seriously ok maybe I can adjust no biggie. BUT now my HP is almost the same as a plate tanks...umm what? If other tanks dont understand why I have more then they need to play a bear cause I got dodge and a retarded ass block where as Warriors and Pallies have all 3 Block, Dodge, Parry. I can understand DK's having a lil more hp then warriors and pallies cause they got parry and dodge. Bears = more hp to take the hit that the others have more of a ability to mitigate. I better have some dodge and armor or something cause im not like the other three I wear leather not plate plus IM A DAMN BEAR!!!!
  1. Findus707's Avatar
    I am going to QQ as QQ if they nerf my HP, i like my 90k hp in ICC and 67k hp normal!
    QQ MOAR!
  1. mmoc639b4181bd's Avatar
    I don´t want to be warrior in bear form.
  1. Narshe's Avatar
    DK already take so much more damage to compensate for their healing abilities, did they really need an IBF nerf?
  1. mmoc6af618f320's Avatar
    "We still believe the Cataclysm raiding environment is going to be a lot less centered around tanks dying to spike damage..."

    You bealive? I mean what the fuck is that supposed to mean? Dont passively bealive, make it like that :P.
  1. Panjandrum's Avatar
    Read the ZG source and original thread. The "Community" at its best...

    I think the reason ZG is being changed is because it is an outside zone and a prime piece of levelling real-estate. I don't get the QQ about changing it; I guess never having been there and not having the patience to farm for mounts at 80 I don't really have any vested interests, but I don't understand - genuinely don't understand - why people get so worked up about these things. There will be other new stuff to farm for.

    Although I suppose the guy on about "progression servers" has the best point these people have had in ages. Just too bad it's never going to happen.
  1. Eaker's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Findus707 View Post
    I am going to QQ as QQ if they nerf my HP, i like my 90k hp in ICC and 67k hp normal!
    QQ MOAR!
    Yes cause we get hit harder so we need the hp or did you not know that?
  1. jkw's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleh View Post
    Gargh, Druid tank nerfs Just when I was enjoying having 80k
    Uh. 80k in beta at 85?! My Paladin has 80k+ in IC25 fully buffed. o0
  1. walda's Avatar
    I really can't believe people are actually QQing about the druid changes, they said:
    "Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks."
    that means the only good tanks were druids, so if they kept it the way it is that means all the other tanking classes will become just OT while leaving the all mighty druid to be the only MT in the game
  1. mirodin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaker View Post
    I play a Bear Tank as my main and I love it. I never really cared about the damage I did even though as a bear more damage meant more threat. I dont care if they reduce my damage just as long as I still have the threat cause thats all that matters to me as it should. I have five abilities that I used for tanking mainly.....5.....and one aoe......1......that is now a a 6 sec cooldown wtf seriously ok maybe I can adjust no biggie. BUT now my HP is almost the same as a plate tanks...umm what? If other tanks dont understand why I have more then they need to play a bear cause I got dodge and a retarded ass block where as Warriors and Pallies have all 3 Block, Dodge, Parry. I can understand DK's having a lil more hp then warriors and pallies cause they got parry and dodge. Bears = more hp to take the hit that the others have more of a ability to mitigate. I better have some dodge and armor or something cause im not like the other three I wear leather not plate plus IM A DAMN BEAR!!!!
    I'm guessing you don't know how bear tanks work. In current icc gear, our guilds MT got a 22k savage defense absorb thats more than you can dream of as a paladin or a warrior. If you think its ok for bosses to be able to only "challenge" druids but rape other tanks, then make a private server and play on it
  1. mmocbe6f74a253's Avatar
    Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?
    No. (Source)

    They sure as hell buffed the Horseman's mount though!! pfff everyone that I see is with it. Ridiculous blizz...didn't know you'd go that low...
  1. Eaker's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mirodin View Post
    I'm guessing you don't know how bear tanks work. In current icc gear, our guilds MT got a 22k savage defense absorb thats more than you can dream of as a paladin or a warrior. If you think its ok for bosses to be able to only "challenge" druids but rape other tanks, then make a private server and play on it
    Sweet A 22k absorb....do you know how often that procs? not much.
  1. mirodin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaker View Post
    Sweet A 22k absorb....do you know how often that procs? not much.
    Sigh, its sad that i have to explain this to a druid tank. What im gonna say now is also mentioned in the blue posts above. You won't always get that high absorbs, savage defense works out of your AP, your AP gets buffed with Vengeance, Vengeance gets buffed by the amount of dmg you take, or in simple terms, the harder the boss hits you the more you will absorb.
  1. Harith's Avatar
    i like this change and ppl yelling that you are all the same isn't really true,you still have how you do threat, you have how you can pull and movement this is what really is meant to make tanks diff not somthing you can see in numbers. with this they are just locking down the dmg taken and with CDs and other things, so we don't get what we had in ulduar where warrior tanks where utterly useless and dk and paladins where so far superior that warrior tanks got demoted to dps (thank god i am awsome with movement and possioning otherwise i had been gone as a tank)

    p.s eakar wellcome to warriors way of aoeing sens TBC it takes skill to know how to alt tab and keep threat on 6-8 targets insted of just spaming 1 button you shoude be happy that you can say this isn't easy
  1. valiorik's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Deos View Post
    What's the point in playing a bear tank then? If it feels and plays the same as warrior but misses all the glory of shiny armor, badass weapons and shiled, rather being stuck in the same form from level 10 to infinity and beyond.. I could come up with excuse before, "im feral tank because i like its unique combat style and i love to rely on huge HP pool rather than avoidance", now i have nothing to put in defense of bear :[
    Maybe second spec? Or PvP spec? For example a person hates playing melee PvP, but loves to tank in PvE, so druid is his only choice.
  1. AetherMcLoud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    You are thinking of it incorrectly. It makes more sense to "nerf" (Read: Balance out) the tank than to increase boss damage. They did that in Wrath, and what happened? Healers had to become god mode players from the first week of Ulduar.

    They are heading in the right direction and making the appropriate changes in my eyes. Are they done? No. Did they say they were done? Nope.

    Rock on.
    While it might be good for the pve part, it's a straight up nerf for DKs in PVP (20% icebound fortitude instead of 30%, still 2min cd) and a buff to druids (2 min 50% survival instincts > 5 min 60%).
  1. mirodin's Avatar
    All tanks should in fact be similar with CD, you definitely want to bring whichever tank you can as long as the person playing it has the skill, rather then cancel the raid because your druid/pala/warr/dk tank was unable to come online.
  1. Meintastic's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Panjandrum View Post
    Read the ZG source and original thread. The "Community" at its best...

    I think the reason ZG is being changed is because it is an outside zone and a prime piece of levelling real-estate. I don't get the QQ about changing it; I guess never having been there and not having the patience to farm for mounts at 80 I don't really have any vested interests, but I don't understand - genuinely don't understand - why people get so worked up about these things. There will be other new stuff to farm for.

    Although I suppose the guy on about "progression servers" has the best point these people have had in ages. Just too bad it's never going to happen.
    Exactly you have never been there so you really cant comment on it

    In terms of overall raid design i personally think that it is the best raid layout throughout vanilla wow. Naxx doesnt even compare to the look of ZG.

    All this stuff that they will be adding wont change the fact that they are removing possibly the best ground mount in game- The Tiger Mount. It just goes in the long list of mounts that blizzard has messed up by removing from the game

    IE: Naxx mounts, Raptor/Tiger Mount, Amani Bear Mount(though the brown bear in wrath made up for this), black qiraji battle tank, flourescent green mechanostrider, etc, etc.

    And honestly i really dont see the point of removing it RIGHT NOW, I mean cant that shit be done later on? If the area isnt going to be used than whats the point of removing the raid at this point in time(that point in time)

    and lets not forget, for every good mount that was in the game blizzard replaces it with a crappier mount later on or a dozen mounts that look just like it only to be a slight change of color

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