Upcoming Tanking Changes - Compiled list
The tanking changes have been updated, I compiled all the changes from the past and new posts in a nice list.
Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
Here are a few additional changes we are making which will be applied in patch 4.0.3a:


  • These changes are all slated for patch 4.0.3a when the shattering of Azeroth takes place, and are not currently implemented on live realms. Some of them may be active in the beta test – the Savage Defense change for example was applied via a hotfix to the beta realms recently.


Death Knight (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Icebound Fortitude -- Damage reduction changed from 30% to 20% (or 60% to 50% talented). Cooldown still 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Savage Defense is massively overpowered on beta and has been dealt with accordingly. Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks. With less damage absorbed, the boss damage can be adjusted downwards. We've reduced the multiplier for attack power on the absorption effect (from 65% to 35%, still modified by mastery) and it no longer procs from periodic critical hits.

  • Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.

  • Survival Instincts -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Duration still 12 seconds.


Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • Holy Shield will be changed to increase block value by 10% (40% total) instead of increasing block chance by 15%. Since this will cause Mastery to become more valuable, the amount of block granted by Mastery will be reduced to 2.25% block chance per point of Mastery, down from 3%.

  • Paladin tanks are not intended to go cap block as fast as they can. It’s fine if you want to do that, but we don’t treat it as “the new defense cap” and we don’t balance paladins assuming they have a 100% block chance. That is something the community identified as being not only possible, but likely, and one of the reasons we changed the way block works for paladins.

  • Guardian of Ancient Kings -- Damage reduction changed from 60% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
  • At level 85, the value of Shield Block decreases as block value generated by Mastery increases. To remedy this, we will convert overflow of block + avoidance that exceeds 100% into critical block chance instead. Along with that change, Shield Block will be reduced to +25% block chance (down from +100%), but this will still yield a net buff for most warriors. Also in response to this change, the amount of block and critical block provided by Mastery will be equalized. Finally, Mastery will now grant 1.5% block chance per point.

  • The new warrior Mastery is 1.5% block and 1.5% critical block per point of mastery.

  • Shield Block will spill over into critical block if any portion of the 25% would have been wasted because your block + dodge + parry is so high already. If you are somehow always over 100% (which will be pretty hard now), you only get the critical block when Shield Block is up. The intent is to make sure Shield Block isn't wasted, not to make sure you have mastery coming out your ears (or any other orifice in the facial region).

  • Shield Block is not intended to be a magic damage cooldown (neither is Blood Shield, which also is physical damage only). We don’t want to duplicate the exact same ability on every tank when we can avoid it. Bosses generally don’t spam out a lot of magic damage on short cooldowns. On the other hand, Shield Block has a much higher up-time than Barkskin. We still believe the Cataclysm raiding environment is going to be a lot less centered around tanks dying to spike damage than players currently experience at level 80. Mitigating a lot of damage to save healer mana can be very valuable in Cataclysm.

  • Vigilance -- No longer reduces damage by 3%, but will still reset Taunt cooldown and provide Vengeance for the warrior.

  • Glyph of Shield Wall -- Now buffs damage reduction by 10% (to 60%), but only adds 1 minute of cooldown.

  • Shield Wall -- Damage reduction changed from 40% to 50%. Cooldown still 2 minutes (talented). Duration still 12 seconds.


Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Raid Heroic Mode
You will have to complete the Normal mode of a raid dungeon once before you can switch to Heroic the next week. (Source)

Beta Raid Difficuly
Normal mode raids are currently too easy (with few exceptions). You'll likely be seeing substantial buffs across the board in the next beta patch. (Source)

Removal of the Zul'gurub instance in 4.0.3a
We feel Zul'Gurub will serve the updated old world much better as a new questing area (and potentially a space for future dungeons), rather than an irrelevant instance. We understand there are some cool flavor items there, but that alone just wasn't justification enough to keep the place walled off so a very tiny fraction of the playerbase can continue farming endlessly for these items. One day maybe these items will make their return when the timing and implementation feels right. (Source)

Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?
No. (Source)

Tanking
Dragons damage / Magic Tanking
If Deathwing is anything like our current dragons, he'll do 60% physical damage and 40% magical damage. Dragon breaths never take you down to 100% of your health, so if the tank dies during them, it's probably because she wasn't topped off before hand (from all the physical damage before hand).

We got rid of the magical tank niche early in LK development because it wasn't a strong enough niche and it wasn't fun for groups to have to swap MTs. All four tanks are tanking Lich King and all four tanks will be tanking Deathwing. (Source)

RNG Deaths in WotLK
I agree it worked that way in Lich King. Tanks were often at risk of dying within 2-3 boss hits, often faster than a heal could land. In that environment anything that can prolong your life at all is very valuable, and by extension anything not related to reliably prolonging your life (parry for instance) is not attractive.

This is also something we have set out to change. I understand that you personally don't believe we will change it, and since your vision of what the world will be like is at odds with our vision, it is unsurprising that the changes we make to bring about our vision might not make sense to you.

But if healer mana doesn't matter, our whole combat design collapses. Healers won't value cheap heals. Since mana won't constrain them, overhealing will be common, so they may start devaluing crit as well. DPS specs won't value talents that help them stay alive. And the only way to challenge raids will once again be to clobber tanks so hard that any missed heals will result in tank death. It doesn't have to be this way, and in fact it wasn't this way for much of the game. We were watching the new Nefarian fights and recalling the old Nefarian fights where, in the absence of a berserk timer, the fight could really last for a long time -- maybe 20 minutes or more -- if you had a lot of deaths. The tank wasn't in much danger of RNG dying, so as long as the healers didn't run out of mana, the raid could keep the fight going nearly indefinitely.

As we said above, in the beta raid tests, druids were easy to keep alive and the other tanks were dying in two hits. That wasn't the design we were going for, so we brought the druid down to the other tank levels and adjusted the damage accordingly. (Source)

Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Vengeance and Savage Defense
Vengeance isn't a problem with Savage Defense in our minds. In fact, it works out well because it lets Savage Defense roughly scale the same way blocking scales, rather than being overpowered for 5-player dungeons or underpowered in raids. When you're getting hit the hardest (hard enough to stack Vengeance a lot), you're also blocking a lot.

Savage Defense was just mitigating too much damage in raids though, which is why we have nerfed it. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Shield Block
When those scary moments come, you use Shield Wall. Or Last Stand. Or both. They are often telegraphed far in advance, so you can also get Guardian Spirit and all the other healer cooldowns lined up as well. You don't need Shield Block to withstand those big magical hits, in the same way you didn't need it to survive Fusion Punch. That's not what it's for. It is for reducing damage taken over time so that healers expend less mana over the course of the fight and don't run out. Very few bosses hit for only magical damage, so in that sense Shield Block and block and armor for that matter are what allow your healers to make it through an encounter.

We could consider adding a Shield Block glyph in the future that removes the block but adds magic damage reduction instead, but overall I think you guys are way over-freaking out about this. (Source)

Blizzcon Pre-Sale Shipping Delays
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker)
Due to an error in our shipping process, BlizzCon items ordered during the pre-sale have been delayed by approximately two weeks. We're expecting all items to now be shipped by November 3.

The intent of the pre-sale is of course to allow you to buy your items ahead of time, and get them as close to BlizzCon as possible, if not before. These issues, while unforeseen, are entirely regrettable and we apologize for any inconvenience they've caused. We're working to get you your goodies as soon as we possibly can.

Thank you for your patience.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Upcoming Tanking Changes Compilation, Blue Posts started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 76 Comments
  1. mirodin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Meintastic View Post
    Amani Bear Mount(though the brown bear in wrath made up for this)
    You can't possibly be serious. Anyway ppl have different tastes, to me the ZA bear is best looking in-game mount. I understand your frustrations, everyday i cry inside when i see the ZA bear.
  1. bitterman's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sneeuwplanker View Post
    Savage Defense is massively overpowered on beta and has been dealt with accordingly. Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks. With less damage absorbed, the boss damage can be adjusted downwards. We've reduced the multiplier for attack power on the absorption effect (from 65% to 35%, still modified by mastery) and it no longer procs from periodic critical hits.

    So what does it proc from now? random 15-30% proc chance? on getting hit? what?
    i would image they mean that it wont proc from bleed effects like lacerate. It will proc from things like maul crits or mangle crits only.
  1. mmocf149ef93ba's Avatar
    We feel Zul'Gurub will serve the updated old world much better as a new questing area (and potentially a space for future dungeons), rather than an irrelevant instance. We understand there are some cool flavor items there, but that alone just wasn't justification enough to keep the place walled off so a very tiny fraction of the playerbase can continue farming endlessly for these items. One day maybe these items will make their return when the timing and implementation feels right.
    That's just stupid nonsense. Stranglethorn is a large enough questing zone, even w/o zg.
  1. Daedius's Avatar
    wow... vigilance just became TOTALLY shit...
  1. Zan15's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima View Post
    I assume you are a Bear Tank? There's a very helpful guide on our Druid forum, give it a read! (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-4.0.1-edition)

    While Paladins and Warriors have abilities you do not have (Parry and Block, just Parry for DKs), you have abilities that they do not to counter/match them. What do you think Savage Defence is for? I can't comprehend how you can complain about having a lack of avoidance when your "Block" had to be brought in-line as it was too powerful. I honestly think you are just skimming the text for number reductions and screaming Witch + Nerf + Sky plummeting.


    Guess you need to change your guide a little smarty pants

    "Stam: Stamina is the bears best defensive stat.
    •We are stamina beasts and gain much more out of stamina than any other tank. We gain HP from stamina.
    Code:"

    oops
    "•Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change."
  1. Riavan's Avatar
    Too many nerfs at once to a class by blizzard always leaves them underpowered and are generally left that way for entire expansions. I wish blizzard would slowly nerf, rather than chopping off a leg, then moving on to the next class/spec.
  1. Eaker's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mirodin View Post
    Sigh, its sad that i have to explain this to a druid tank. What im gonna say now is also mentioned in the blue posts above. You won't always get that high absorbs, savage defense works out of your AP, your AP gets buffed with Vengeance, Vengeance gets buffed by the amount of dmg you take, or in simple terms, the harder the boss hits you the more you will absorb.
    Yes I understand that but thx for pointing it out for others. I've been tankin for a very long time and with all 4 classes but I like Bear the most with warrior a close second.

    Savage Defense is massively overpowered on beta and has been dealt with accordingly. Many of the reports of beta raid bosses two-shotting tanks were because that was how much damage the bosses needed to do in order to challenge Feral tanks. With less damage absorbed, the boss damage can be adjusted downwards. We've reduced the multiplier for attack power on the absorption effect (from 65% to 35%, still modified by mastery) and it no longer procs from periodic critical hits.
    It's the fact of agi not affecting armor, HP being the same as everyone else and the only thing i'm probably gonna have more then others is dodge now that's it....and you dont see a problem?

    @Harith Yes your right I don't know what I was thinking my 6-sec swipe cooldown makes me just like a warrior with thunderclap....but then theres shockwave, cleave, now you have a aoe rend..........
  1. HemmerN's Avatar
    And so does bears when they get trash
  1. Freedom's Avatar
    Yay homogenization - no really, no sarcasm. About time the main tanking CDs were equalized.

    Vigilance change sort of sucks though, it should at least make Revenge usable.
  1. Jokerjesus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorni View Post
    So... remove all classic raids and tbc raids. Cause only "very tiny fraction of the playerdatabase goes there" after cata hits.
    What a BS.
    They are going to reimplemented the mounts. They have had plans to do this for a while.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-29 at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by damaniac82 View Post
    THIS. I used to have a warr tank, a pally and a DK and i've loved the differences. Now pally and warr are pretty much the same --> warr retired. I've planned to try a druid for a change (troll voodoo druids ftw), but not sure anymore. Combined with the fact that achievements are character-bound and not account-bound, starting another tank that is basically the same regarding gameplay just feels like a huge waste of time...

    Also, i'm really started to get burned out because of these class revamps. They could have left most classes the way they were in wotlk and add a few more dungeons and BGs instead, but no, they decided to change everything, so we'd get tricked into the idea of having something new... Pff.
    You do realize that playing the same specs and mechanics for 2 years is what causes people to quit playing right? Most people play the game for the classes and uniqueness of them not only the dungeons and encounters. Most of the fun comes form playing the character not the content and having the same boring mechanics for 1-2 years makes me want to punch babies, it is one of the main reasons I (and many others now) have all the classes at 80 so I don't get bored.
  1. Pumps's Avatar
    "''Is it possible to increase the droprate of ZG mounts before it's removed?''
    No. (Source)"


    Asshole.
  1. mmocea8dfff509's Avatar
    why do you have to whine about ZG jeeze
    you kno ZG stands in open ground & lots of ppl will bug the zone with them flying there and stuff.
    as you can enter an empty ZG when you go there from the top & all
    they dont want this to happen.

    also the druids whining i dont get it why your whining exept your crying your not so much OP any more and are on same scale as the others now.
    how meany times have i seen a raid get canceld becaus they didnt have a druid tank
  1. DrgnDancer's Avatar
    QQ they nerfed my spec I've never played and have no idea how it might work. Guys. It's BETA. If you're not in BETA you have no idea how tanks are balancing right now at level 85 do you? You're QQing about one set of theoretical numbers that you haven't seen being replace by another set of theoretical numbers you haven't seen. These changes aren't going live till 4.03a. Which mean that *at most* you'll have to deal with them for a week at 80. After that performance at 80 will *never matter again*. It will be all about performance at 85. And you don't know anything about performance at 85 do you?

    You have no idea why these changes were implemented, whether they're a good or bad idea, or what they mean to level 85 performance. You looked at a screen saw "ZOMG they lowered some numbers on me class! Nerf!1!11!!" and are now going to QQ about how they're ruining your performance on content you've never done. Get over it.
  1. mmocbe37fe1405's Avatar
    I don't understand why people are QQing about the ZG mounts. You've had 2 years to farm for it at 80, and even longer in TBC and Vanilla. You're not entitled to any mounts. It's a vanity item, therefore pretty low down on the priorities as far as gameplay is concerned (I don't know if you noticed, you're playing a GAME here, not an animal collect-em-up).

    This also comes from someone who has farmed for it on occasion, but also realises the reason they are desired is because they are rare.

    Also, person above me doesn't understand the concept of instancing.
  1. mmocea8dfff509's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaker View Post
    @Harith Yes your right I don't know what I was thinking my 6-sec swipe cooldown makes me just like a warrior with thunderclap....but then theres shockwave, cleave, now you have a aoe rend..........
    the 6 sec cd is cleave and ours only targets a few mobs not all of em in a cone infront of us
  1. Vanyshh's Avatar
    I love that they are making an effort to make dungeons harder again...with some of the fights I have seen I would love to see people try and take some of the fights down with the buffs put in
  1. MortalWombat's Avatar
    Bears don't need to have way more armor and hp than the other tanks anymore, the main reason you had that in TBC was because bosses could crush and it was your answer to not being able to stop crushing blows.

    Having a tank with a lot higher hp makes things unbalanced, who do you think the guild chooses to MT for fights that offer something like Sarth 3D or LK Soulreaper? The bear because he will have more hp to take the hit, you shouldn't be picked to MT because of a gimmick but because you are a great tank and geared for the fight.
  1. Nathiest's Avatar
    tanking, tanking, tanking!! ugh!!! enough about stupid tanks!

    Lets talk about Worgen's Running Wild! or sex baby!


    (music lyrics n00b)
  1. mrwingtipshoes's Avatar
    Bear Form -- Stamina bonus lowered from 20% to 10% and Heart of the Wild health bonus from 10% to 6%. Bear health should be close to plate tank health with this change.
    And here I thought due to our lack of block and parry bears were SUPPOSED to have more health...
  1. Computereasy's Avatar
    ...about those bear nerfs...I'm a muthafuggin bear you can't nerf me! The hell you doin? When a bear comes charging at you, you don't say "oh I just nerfed you so we are even now!" ...no...you f**kin run mmmk? I'M A BEAR! #1 THREAT TO AMERICA! SUCK IT!

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