Nefarian Paragon Video, Cataclysm Hall of Fame, MMO Report, Comics

Originally Posted by AshestoAsh

I'm not sure if any of you noticed the 800k rip crit from the druid's POV, and with 11 ferals all critting that they barely managed to beat the encounter. I am by no means a paragon fanboy/hater, and am not saying my guild would do any better because we wouldn't but still i feel they should have their world first revoked.

Are 400-600k ticks of other spells okay with you then?

Because you can go to Nefarian right now and do over 2 million shields of righteousness. Read the comments above.

The fight still isn't balanced well. These aren't exploits; this is how the fight works. It just works poorly.

Paragon has already killed Nefarian again after the hotfix by the way.

Originally Posted by Kinaesthesia

oh look, a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCjUYMSNq5Y

Congrats, I loved the ending there.

Originally Posted by A Challenger

To me, if this silly "race" never existed, we'd probably see a lot less of these kills in general.

orly? I would say so... logically speaking.

Originally Posted by Nicord

(1) There were no bugs or exploits involved with Paragon's kill. The kill was legit, and the feral druids' Rip was working correctly in combination with the dominate buff. The math about Rip has been done earlier on this thread, and the numbers check out. Please learn again your basic calculus if you don't agree. Or rest assured that Blizzard thoroughly checks through the combat logs of every world first kill for possible exploiting of bugs, and swiftly bans any offenders.


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If this mechanic was changed then paragon should have had their titles stripped and world first removed and they can kill it how all the other guilds have to kill it. It was obviously not intended and also not changed fast enough but rip hitting for 400k-800k is just an abuse of game mechanics. Other guilds get banned for abusing stuff that gets changed or is not working as it was intended to... They should be no exception.

Paragon didn't get world first Nefarian kill Method did.

This video clearly showing paragon abusing mechanics that arenot working as intended should not be up on the front page.

From what i read, Paragon should have their title, loot and world first stripped from them because they did the fight legit, and followed the mechanics set in front of them... Nice logic there. Also no matter how you look at it Paragon got Nef down to 0% first in the world and Method got Nef down to 0% second in the world therefore Paragon is world first and Method is world second. Also not once did blizzard say that the fight was not working as intended to... they changed it because they didn't like the decision they made... Also by your logic using saronite bombs to completely exclude a major part of a fight is the same exact thing as following all mechanics.

I'm sorry, but if 800k rip ticks are a planned mechanic by blizzard then this encounter is just fail.

if blizzard did NOT plan the mechanics of the fight like this (and they clearly didn't as it was hotfixed) then Paragon should have their world first revoked.

I'm a huge paragon fan, i love watching their movies, reading their blogs, and just generally love basking in their awesomeness....

BUT, this is an exploit, end of story.... stacking druids to get the biggest benefit from the exploit....


DK's on sinestra doing retarded damage and nearly one shoting her.... this was fixed BEFORE they downed her.... Nefarian should have been NO different....

just my opinion.....

Originally Posted by Licarius

I'm sorry, but if 800k rip ticks are a planned mechanic by blizzard then this encounter is just fail.

if blizzard did NOT plan the mechanics of the fight like this (and they clearly didn't as it was hotfixed) then Paragon should have their world first revoked.

I'm a huge paragon fan, i love watching their movies, reading their blogs, and just generally love basking in their awesomeness....

BUT, this is an exploit, end of story.... stacking druids to get the biggest benefit from the exploit....


DK's on sinestra doing retarded damage and nearly one shoting her.... this was fixed BEFORE they downed her.... Nefarian should have been NO different....

just my opinion.....

Okay, then the encounter is fail. It's a planned mechanic to have very high DoT ticks. Not 800k Rip ticks (apparently), but 400-600k ticks of other stuff. Apparently Blizzard thought that Rip promoted too much class stacking, so they changed it for future guilds. If it was against the -original- intent of the fight, Paragon would be banned.

Stolen Power is part of the fight. Look it up on MMO-DB for the PTR version or Wowhead for the Live version. It's a 15% damage increase stacking 150 times for a total of 2250% damage on your next attack.

That's how the fight was designed because Nefarian has a LOT more hp than other heroic bosses (especially when you add in Onyxia + adds).

If Method released a video, the damage numbers would be inflated too. Not as much, sure. But they'd still be higher than the average fight because it is a mechanic that is part of the fight.

Originally Posted by DragonFireKai

If you think 11 druids makes the fight an "easy kill", then you have no idea of the difficulty of the encounter.

Still it makes the encounter much easier - otherwise they wouldn't have stacked druids that much. And easier than intended kill aka not working as intended kill means it was not a legit kill - you can twist the story as much as you want but you can't hide the facts.

inb4 fanboyrage...

Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk

Still it makes the encounter much easier - otherwise they wouldn't have stacked druids that much. And easier than intended kill aka not working as intended kill means it was not a legit kill - you can twist the story as much as you want but you can't hide the facts.

inb4 fanboyrage...

Heroic Nefarian is getting buffed again in 4.0.6 when Stolen Power is going down to 5% per stack instead of 15% buff stack.

Does that mean Method's kill is not "working as intended"? Will it no longer be legit when the patch is released, further increasing the difficulty of Nefarian (assuming they don't lower his HP in the patch to compenstate, I guess)? What if Paragon got the first kill on Post-4.0.6 Nefarian?

That's just not how the game works. Fight balance changes. Unless it is an exploit and they are banned, first kill is the first kill.

The difference b/w Ensidia / Nihilum and Paragon:

Paragon releases vids of controversial kills. (Although I don't see why this particular one was).
Ensidia doesn't.

It isn't an exploit because stacking feral druids and using rip doesn't change any of the mechanics of the way the fight is supposed to be. This is the clever use of game mechs argument. Guilds have long stacked classes to help with firsts, if you don't see that you're ignorant.

It was a bug.

However, using debuffs to bypass C'thun's stomach acid, using DI to make Vashj reset to 1 HP, using bombs to rebuild LK's platform so you can ignore adds, those alter the fundamental mechanics of the fight and are exploits.

Originally Posted by Rukentuts

The difference b/w Ensidia / Nihilum and Paragon:

Paragon releases vids of controversial kills. (Although I don't see why this particular one was).
Ensidia doesn't.

It isn't an exploit because stacking feral druids and using rip doesn't change any of the mechanics of the way the fight is supposed to be. This is the clever use of game mechs argument. Guilds have long stacked classes to help with firsts, if you don't see that you're ignorant.

It was a bug.

However, using debuffs to bypass C'thun's stomach acid, using DI to make Vashj reset to 1 HP, using bombs to rebuild LK's platform so you can ignore adds, those alter the fundamental mechanics of the fight and are exploits.

Paragon didn't release a vid of their atramedes kill, but it's pretty much assumed that every guild that's downed him has exploited the encounter to one degree or another. Ensida is a little more cutthroat than most, but there's no such thing as an honorable guild competing for world firsts. They all operate in shady grey areas.

Originally Posted by DragonFireKai

Paragon didn't release a vid of their atramedes kill, but it's pretty much assumed that every guild that's downed him has exploited the encounter to one degree or another. Ensida is a little more cutthroat than most, but there's no such thing as an honorable guild competing for world firsts. They all operate in shady grey areas.

Everyone agrees that Atramedes was bugged to crap.

And yes, usually a world first guild exploits a bug then reports it so others can't use it.

Just remember that in 10 years nobody will know or care about all this. It's a game.

Please remove Vodka from the world first, as THEY DID NOT GET THE WORLD FIRST, THEY EXPLOITED, idiot. The "World Second" as you call it is the true World First. You're disgracing the guild that truley got it, because as you notice, where the fuck is vodka's 2nd attempt since the fix? There isn't one. Why? BECAUSE THEY CANT DO IT.

MMO-Champion pls bann these stupid guys in this forum otherwise you will sink down in time... There was no bug on Nef with Druids... Are you guys stupid? Its a One-time dmg buff which affects Ferals the strongest because of their strongest singleclick attack. thats it. Everyone who doesnt understand that is to stupid to be on the internet. I should make a list of stupid guys in this thread and show it to the world :/

paragon best guild ever

Main problem with Paragon Nefarian Kill was that they couldn't provide another kill after the druid rip got fixed.

RIP and BANE OF DOOM were broken - they got hotfixed, they weren't working as intended.

Combustion/ Shield of right. and any other skill you come up weren't - they didn't got a hotfix, that's why they didn't stacked any other class.

The main problem here is: if paragon was under supervision (as all other top guilds on kills), WHY blizzard let them get the kill and then hotfixed it? And if they hotfixed, why they didn't strip Paragon first kill - like they did with Ensidia LK saronite bomb case?

Some ppl are biased and believe that having superdps isn't a bypass but take the example Ensidia Saronite bomb - if each bomb could rip off 50% of a valkyrie health instead of rebuilding the platform, wouldn't that be broken? Or would it be cleaver use of in-game mechanic or intended?

Not to mention that superdps makes the fights last far shorter and shorter fights makes a lot of factors easier - nefarian case, slightly less harder.

On this case, it was more Blizzard fault then Paragon, but it doesn't change that the kill had the use of acknowledge bugs - RIP/Bane of Doom.

Originally Posted by Chromu

Main problem with Paragon Nefarian Kill was that they couldn't provide another kill after the druid rip got fixed.

RIP and BANE OF DOOM were broken - they got hotfixed, they weren't working as intended.

Combustion/ Shield of right. and any other skill you come up weren't - they didn't got a hotfix, that's why they didn't stacked any other class.

The main problem here is: if paragon was under supervision (as all other top guilds on kills), WHY blizzard let them get the kill and then hotfixed it? And if they hotfixed, why they didn't strip Paragon first kill - like they did with Ensidia LK saronite bomb case?

Some ppl are biased and believe that having superdps isn't a bypass but take the example Ensidia Saronite bomb - if each bomb could rip off 50% of a valkyrie health instead of rebuilding the platform, wouldn't that be broken? Or would it be cleaver use of in-game mechanic or intended?

Not to mention that superdps makes the fights last far shorter and shorter fights makes a lot of factors easier - nefarian case, slightly less harder.

On this case, it was more Blizzard fault then Paragon, but it doesn't change that the kill had the use of acknowledge bugs - RIP/Bane of Doom.

The the valkyrs had some sort of debuff that made them take siege damage as actual damage, and the debuff was visible in the encounter, not through experimentation, but as a debuff. Then I promise you ensidia wouldn't have been banned. The debuff would probably be removed after guilds started killing it, because giving such a massive bonus to a profession is terrible game design, but no one would have been banned for using it, because it would have been working as intended. What ensidia did was force a terrain construct to reset by pushing it into negative health. It's a coding flaw, not a mechanic of the fight. Same with glitching adds to evade.

Increasing buff cause heroic dungeons are hard for pugs? are you kidding me? Seriously lvl proffessions get epics, cc more it's not hard lol!

Congrats to all the guilds getting into the Hall of Fame.