Update #2 - Yes, Patch 4.0.6 is next week, stop asking.




Luck of the Draw Buff
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In case you aren't already aware, Luck of the Draw is the name of the buff you get for grouping with random people using Dungeon Finder. It currently provides a 5% buff to damage, healing, and health if you have at least one random player in your group. With patch 4.0.6, we are increasing this buff to 5% damage, healing, and health per random player, up to a maximum of 15%.

In the process of working on this change we actually discovered that the Luck of the Draw buff has not been working in Cataclysm at all, save for a few specific dungeons. This means that the difficulty in almost all normal and Heroic dungeons for those using the Dungeon Finder tool was higher than expected. Still, with that issue corrected in 4.0.6, we feel the bump up to 15% for three or more random players found through the Dungeon Finder is a necessary change.

The intent of Luck of the Draw is to help make up for the lack of coordination, communication, and familiarity that pick up groups suffer relative to organized groups of guild members and friends. Cataclysm dungeons, especially on Heroic mode, are quite challenging and ask for more group organization than the Wrath of the Lich King dungeons did. Therefore, Luck of the Draw became relatively weaker in Cataclysm. I'm painting the picture with unfairly large brush strokes here, but in general, Heroic dungeons are of appropriate difficulty for organized groups, but just brutal on Dungeon Finder groups. Players wonder, and rightly so, why Dungeon Finder supports Cataclysm Heroic dungeons at all when the chance of success is so low.

We think buffing Luck of the Draw is a good way to go about correcting the difficulty differences because it makes things slightly easier on PUGs without depriving the organized groups of a fun challenge. We also think the bonus is modest enough that it won't encourage organized groups to split up and just PUG instead - - the success rate for PUGs relative to organized groups is just that far behind. We still think you'll have more fun and a greater chance of success running dungeons with friends, but when that isn’t possible, we hope this change will make Dungeon Finder a more pleasant experience. Also remember that patch 4.0.6 is adjusting the difficulty of some bosses that are particularly unforgiving, such as Ozruk in Heroic Stonecore, though to be fair, we are buffing some underperforming encounters as well. In addition, we are offering larger Justice Point rewards for players who just prefer the faster pace and greater success rate of normal dungeons, and by the time 4.1 comes out everyone will have access to more powerful gear, making the older content even easier. But then there'll be new challenges to face!

We'd like to thank everyone who has provided us with feedback. We do listen, even if we don't immediately deploy every design change suggested by the player community. Our intent is to make the game fun for a wide variety of players, which can be quite a challenge when you have a community this large and this varied. We hope you continue to enjoy the game, and look forward to sharing more changes (and a few surprises) in the months ahead.

-Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft and was attacked by a coati as a child. (True story.)

All Rated Battleground Weeks Now 10v10
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
We’re in the process of developing a hotfix to push before next Tuesday that will change all 15vs15 rated battleground weeks into 10vs10 weeks.

Looking at participation, the 10vs10 rated battleground weeks have been far and away more popular than the 15vs15 weeks. The difference in organizational requirements as well as battleground map popularity have been a couple big factors that have led to the 10vs10 weeks seeing a great deal more action. By making this change and supporting the popular option we hope to encourage even more players and teams to participate, as they won’t have to wait out every other week, or struggle to beef up to 15 players to match the requirement.

We also have plans to adapt additional battleground maps in the future to work in the 10 player bracket to increase the variety of maps available.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Luck of the Draw Buff started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 559 Comments
  1. shadowboxer123's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crofford View Post
    From everything you said it sounds like you are surrounded for bads and, by your own words, morons. So either you are one of them or you are the exception and are a good player in a sea of morons. If so then my advice is this; stop using LFD. Get a guild that runs heroics, or make friends with several capable players on your server who you trust.

    The problem, as you noted, is that LFD is chock-full of idiots. When you nerf heroics to the point that all those idiots can do them then you are watering down the content to the point of trivializing it. As I said, maybe you are an exception and you are a good player surrounded by bads. If that is the case then I sincerely hope you take the time to find a group of people that you enjoy playing with. Since this game is an MMO, it helps a ton to have a pool of other players to cooperate with to achieve your goals.

    When the day comes that those morons you described are capable of doing heroics, then the gear and achievements become meaningless.
    Except running with a guild is far easier than running in a pug. So in essence, wouldn't that be trivializing content, since you are choosing the easier way to get your gear and achievements by running with a premade group?

    And if you do as you are advising, that is running in a premade, then this buff won't affect your play style since you won't get the buff.

    At the moment running with PUGs is more difficult because of some of the "challenges" they present. After the "buff", they will still be more of challenge than running in a premade, due to the difference in the levels of coordination and communication.

    When you factor in the long wait times, the time it takes to complete a pug run, the chances of being kicked stupidly and for no reason, and not having the same communication and coordination as in a premade, and all the other "challenges" that come with running in a pug, I would say that anyone who got their gear their gear through LFD, earned it. Much harder to get gear through a pug run, and much harder to get some of the achievements as well.

    Not all Pugs are bad. I have run with some good players that pug, and have completed a lot of heroics with pugs. But still not as easy as running with my friends or guildies.

    What this is really about are the egos of some people. They somehow want to feel elite and that they have stuff that no one else does, when the truth is that if you are raiding you already have better gear, and when the next tier comes out, it won't matter much anyhow.
  1. ZeroWashu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Elitists go away. Let the casuals have their heroics. The good players are raiding heroic modes.
    This is why I always wondered where the need for difficult heroic 5 mans were. The casuals and similar should have never seen the crap that the new heroics threw at them. Five mans should have been the exclusive domain of those not up to raiding or without time to raid. It would have offered them their sense of accomplishment without causing the rest of the community any issues.

    However one thing I have seen proven over and over through out my years playing WOW is, the number of water cooler elitist players is without measure. I mean, by the sheer numbers posting here in threads like this about how much of a nerf it is to the instances, how wow is easy mode, you would swear MMO-Champion is populated exclusively by the players doing Heroic raids day and in day out.

    Yet we all know the opposite is true, I don't see very many IF any people here posting about being in on the latest realm/game firsts. I see none of their names in the top guilds. From all the gnashing of teeth and wearing sack cloth you would think they are sorely put upon to game with lesser beings.

    Besides, it is too late for this buff to mater. Too many have left to care.
  1. esmifra's Avatar
    To the ppl QQing and whining about the nerf:

    How the f**k does this affect you?
    You are uber players so you are mainly raiding and do heroics normally with guildies!

    Do you even PUG? Have you gone through that nightmare?

    I think its extremely ironic you guys are whining about whiners and about changes that don't affect the content you are mainly playing...
    Wanna flex your epeen?
    Wanna feel better about yourselves?
    Do something with valor in your real life. Then you wont need a GAME to feel better about yourselves.
  1. mmocb4812fc9f6's Avatar
    So, this will result in ignoring many boss mechanics, cuz they wont just kill you, good job breaking your own bosses... rly.
  1. jonyx's Avatar
    Woo, dying for patch as I'd like to random it up to death on my many alts. Indifferent over the buff as I agree that it's hardly a magic wand for those that love gluing their digital legs to a spot. I think it was a wise decision on Blizzard's part to handle it the way they are.
  1. KoolKidKaos's Avatar
    This actually is pretty cool, the more pugs you have, the more damage is increased I love it, sick of 4k dps in full heroic gear making heroics feel like raid night.
  1. Dan Dairam's Avatar
    Everyone complaining about the LotD change are people who don't raid, or don't raid often, and feel accomplished by being in full heroic blues. Congratulations on gearing up to that level, but if you want to still feel superior to the general WoW community start raiding. You people are the same ones who are going to complain about how casual players will be able to buy 359 gear with JP in 4.1. If this change upsets you that much, guess what, you aren't as hardcore as you think you are.
  1. garylisk's Avatar
    A tank and a healer group up and queue for a random.

    3 DPS on another server are grouped up and queue for a random.

    These 2 teams get placed together. The team of 3 DPS have found 2 players through the tool. The tank and healer combo have found 3 players through the tool.

    Fill in the blank: The Luck of the Draw buff this group gets is __%.
  1. mmocaf071dd5f4's Avatar
    That buff is going to make the old world dungeons even more of a joke, especially with most groups in full heirlooms now too.
  1. shadowboxer123's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by garylisk View Post
    A tank and a healer group up and queue for a random.

    3 DPS on another server are grouped up and queue for a random.

    These 2 teams get placed together. The team of 3 DPS have found 2 players through the tool. The tank and healer combo have found 3 players through the tool.

    Fill in the blank: The Luck of the Draw buff this group gets is __%.
    Five percent.

    Before I get flamed, this is my reasoning, and what I think Blizz intends:

    When people group together, that is or should be considered one random element.

    So since you have two teams of people, either way you look at it one of the teams is being grouped with one random element, which means a buff of 5% due to it being a small random group.

    If LFD made a PUG that consisted of a group of two, another group of two, and then one more random player, then the buff should be 10% because no matter what point of view you are looking at it from, one element is grouped with two random elements. This is more of a random group then the first one.

    If LFD made a group that consisted of a group of two, and then three more random people who didn't join together as a group, then the buff should be 15%, because no matter whose point of view you take, one of the elements is grouped with 3 other random elements.

    I am pretty sure this is what Blizz intends: the more random elements you have the greater the buff. For the first example, of the two teams, one which consists of the tank and healer, and the other consisting of the three dps, there is less randomness. This example is closer to being a planned group so there is less of a buff, since there should be more coordination and communication.

    The method above to determine the amount of the buff is the only way which it could work. Otherwise if you had a group of 4 that joined LFD together, and one random player, then you could say that the 4 players are random to the single player and the group would get a 15% buff. In fact if it doesn't work the way I described above, every single group that uses LFD would have a 15% buff, and that is not what Blizz says. They say that the more random a group is, and thus less coordination and communication, the more of a buff they will recieve up to 15%.

    If it doesn't work the way I describe above, then when would a group ever get the 5% buff?

    When people join as a group, they are considered one random element, other wise this buff wouldn't scale per randomness.
  1. tenzing21's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Only 10v10? Are they serious? Not that I don't enjoy those maps, but seriously Blizzard? Why can they not do something like this: Allow every week to be 10v10 and alternate 15v15 and 25v25 at the same time. Most people will go on the 10s sure, but some of us will prefer the larger maps (this could have been a solution for 25s from the beginning).
    Dear Blizzard I have an idea, why don't you allow us to Group queue up either as a) "regulation" i.e. at the body count the Designers intended and you know you'll get a 10v10 map, or b) allow people to queue as a "skirmish" 5v5, 10v10, 15v15, with a random map, even AV and Conquest. I fail to see how this has any draw backs. 15v15 sucks coz of the maps (cough cough Strand), so if you open up AV and Conquest to any size group, you'll see 15v15 skyrocket in popularity.
  1. Deepone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer123 View Post
    Five percent.
    That's a fine guess. The other fine guess is 10% (the largest sub-group randomed for 2 additional people).

    We don't now the answer to that, and won't until we either see it on the PTR or live.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 12:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutella View Post
    That buff is going to make the old world dungeons even more of a joke, especially with most groups in full heirlooms now too.
    I'm tired of this kind of dismissive attitude. The leveling experience should not be hard. It should be easy, but with some pain points. Some mind control here, some bad stuff on the ground there. Just enough to teach new players the ropes without discouraging them.

    Right now, here's how I see the 5-man experience (keep in mind, I've been playing since tier 3, so I don't have a PERFECT perspective here, either, but I'm trying to see this like a newb):

    levels 15-30: mostly very good. Introductions are not trivial for new players, but they are for old hands. As it should be.

    levels 30-45: A good ramp-up. Many new abilities come into play, and players get a taste of things like mind control and wave bosses.

    levels 45-60: Much work needed. BRD would be a great quartet of dungeons, but as it is now, it's painful at best. The final wing of DM is designed for players that aren't rocketing up and will thus see it once or twice only. Love the changes to ST, though.

    levels 60-69: A good deal of work is needed. TBC leveling is too fast to bounce players into strongly gimmicked dungeons (the land of infinite mind control, etc.) that, again, they'll see 1-3 times tops. It would be nice if the 50s ramped up into the 60s and the whole thing felt like the game was getting more complex consistently.

    levels 70-79: Too easy, given the ramp-up in TBC. Should be re-tuned to bridge between TBC and Cata

    levels 80-85: A bit too hard from the start. It would be nice if ToT were a little bit harder than HoL and then it ramped up from there. Part of this is the gear gap (Blizzard, please just give up on the relevance of 80 purples and scale the gear in WotLK up so that level 79 dungeons drop ilvl 250 blues) and part of it is the change in the approach. Some tuning of WotLK dungeons is clearly needed.
  1. Dch48's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Wrong again, people never complained about WotLK being hard because healers were overpowered and things were undertuned
    This is wrong. There were many complaints about parts of Ulduar being too hard and they were well founded and nerfs resulted. The trash packs in XT's room are a prime example. Originally they were far too hard to get rid of. The Faction Champions in ToC were also justifiably complained about and they were nerfed as well. Personally the only part of LK that I thought was too easy was the 5 man content. The raids were all, including Naxx, tuned pretty well for the gear you had when you first entered them and none of them were too easy. The ICC buff was well done and also necessary. A lot of people hit roadblocks in there that they only got past when the buff increased. There was not a single guild on my server that downed LK on 25 man Heroic mode, even with the full buff in effect. To me, the raiding in LK was the best Blizzard has ever offered.
  1. Spammeister's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    This is wrong. There were many complaints about parts of Ulduar being too hard and they were well founded and nerfs resulted. The trash packs in XT's room are a prime example. Originally they were far too hard to get rid of. The Faction Champions in ToC were also justifiably complained about and they were nerfed as well. Personally the only part of LK that I thought was too easy was the 5 man content. The raids were all, including Naxx, tuned pretty well for the gear you had when you first entered them and none of them were too easy. The ICC buff was well done and also necessary. A lot of people hit roadblocks in there that they only got past when the buff increased. There was not a single guild on my server that downed LK on 25 man Heroic mode, even with the full buff in effect. To me, the raiding in LK was the best Blizzard has ever offered.
    Please close thread now, plz!
  1. Patricia86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    I do think if it turned out to not be working at all since the start of cata its good that this is corrected. On the 10% increase to 15% i think its a good change tbh even if they are not hard anymore they are atleast for me boring taking a really long time to complete. So yeah i agree with this change.
    I agree, I think that PUG groups are ridiculous as far as difficulty. One heroic group can take many hours on certain dungeons such as SFK. It's why I decided to PVP instead.
  1. Zoma's Avatar
    This expansion, all my random heroics have been with guild groups, because of the the horror that is a PuG. I like this change, because now I may be able to get my daily valor on days when my guildmates are offline.
  1. Patricia86's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Excellent change, running Heroics in a pug is a nightmare. This is the best change they've done in a while. On a side note, some of the heroics are poorly designed in that the first boss is harder than the next 2 or 3. Halls of Origination comes to mind for one and Stonecore and Throne of the Tides as well. This is backwards, the difficulty should increase as you go further in, not get easier. The Lost City is the best designed in this regard in my opinion.

    My guild hasn't even started raiding yet because it's taken this long to get people appropriately geared. We also are having problems getting people to even log on and try. If this change would have been in effect from the beginning, we'd have been raiding a few weeks ago.
    The first boss that comes to mind is Beauty...she's almost impossible in Heroic while the last boss is one of the easiest bosses for heroics. The hardest boss should be last with heroics, with the best loot imo, because this would help groups stick together until the dungeon is complete. I get a lot of heroic PUGs falling apart at the end, right before the last boss. It's really nerve-wrecking.
  1. kanzei's Avatar
    2 months of their dungeon buff not working and they didn't even know it. Amazing.
  1. Crofford's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer123 View Post
    Except running with a guild is far easier than running in a pug. So in essence, wouldn't that be trivializing content, since you are choosing the easier way to get your gear and achievements by running with a premade group?
    You are wrong. Running in a premade group is not trivializing the CONTENT. The content is HARDER in guild groups because guild groups do not have the buff. Guild groups and premades are simply more coordinated and better skilled, typically. But guild groups and premades still have to get bosses down without the buff. So running premades for heroics is just the smarter way to go about things.

    Furthermore, you seem to misunderstand. I do not care about the nerfs to heroics. I welcome them. I am merely noting that heroic achievements and gear is fast becoming meaningless. When the content is do-able by almost anyone then it is no longer special or unique in any way when you do it. But this was all inevitable anyway. As the population becomes more geared, and as Blizzard steadily nerfs heroics to the ground, it is no longer impressive when heroics are completed. I really don't care if every wow player in the world can pug a Heroic and aoe their way to glory in 20 minutes anymore. So enjoy your sense of accomplishment. I sincerely hope they nerf heroics to be doable in 10 mins or less so I can spend less time getting my VP.
  1. Donald Hellscream's Avatar
    i in all honesty dont get why everyone and their mother is whining about this.. if you are oh so mad about this then dont pug that way you wont get the buff problem solved.. aside from that even with the increase idiots who cant wrap their head around not standing in fire that deals 20k dmg a second will still die period.

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