Patch 4.1 Valor Points and Daily Dungeon Explained, Blue Posts, The Daily Blink

Thats worse then frost emblems

purple welfare all over again

This.

And we're only 3 months far in this expansion so it WILL get worse than this lol.

Originally Posted by RokFenris

a bunch of awesome stuff

Thank you. The Blue's language was a bit twisty.
There is a weekly VP cap of 1250. This will not change.
In 4.1, we will get a cap from VP gained from Heroics of 980 VP. We will have now two tiers of Heroics. We can earn a max of 490 VP from Tier 1 Heroics, which are the dungeons we have now. From the coming 4.1 Tier 2 dungeons, which will be ZA and ZG, we can earn a max 980 VP. So, we can earn our weekly VP cap from running only the Tier 2 Heroics.
The Tier 2 Heroics will be on par of difficulty as the current raids, so if you aren't geared for or capable of running (read: not failing at) the opening raids of Cataclysm, you don't be able to make through ZA- and ZG-redux.

What is also changing is that we can run seven random Tier 1 H's in a row, all in a single day, earning 70 VP for each completed. Tier 2 Heroics are on a separate cool-down, so to speak. This means we can run the seven Tier 1's, getting 490 VP and then run four Tier 2 Heroics to hit the cap. Or any similar permutations to hit the VP 980 Heroic cap.

Why would someone not want to run only the Tier 2 H's? Because that sounds boring, Zoidberg.

Originally Posted by theburned

for my I really don't care if we will get them faster, but really I thought cataclysm was going to be about well deserved epics, and not about getting free epics, now you will get 1k valor points a weak easily from just going hcs, you only have to kill 4 bosses to cap. and you will be getting free valor vendor gear.

Running heroics each and every day and paying a mothly fee is not "getting well deserved items"? WTF! Do you expect casual games to just afk in stormwind, doing their 25 dailies and 1 rnd heroic a day and beside that they have to shut up, be nice and don't ask for epics? You sir are an elitist, how bout you running a private server, where everything belongs to you and noone else gets something?

Your math skills aren't the best aren't they?

You have to kill 7! bosses of which 2 are tier 2 heroic bosses. Not all casuals will and can complete ZG and ZA.
7x70 = 490 if they do the regular heroics.
Only the ZG and ZA bosses yield 140 VP per kill. Nonetheless you have to kill 7 bosses for "casual cap of 490" or 7 ZG/ZA bosses for 980 cap.

A normal casual gamer who has an iLvl of 333 or maybe 337 or even 340, can't enter ZG/ZA since you ONLY can enter them via Dungeonfinder, and they'll need iLvl 346 for it.

People that have 346 iLvl still don't complete ZA/ZG for 100%, if some of them still don't finish GB or DM.. do you really think they can finish the new ones?

So summa summarum: A casual gamer most likey will still only get 490 VP + Baradinhold 70 VP.

Every casual that denys the fact that they are being spoon-fed just to please them and have them continue paying the subscription fee is a spoiled brat that has gotten everything on a silver platter since birth and suddenly bumped into this thing called "effort" on their way to the "reward", but couldn't understand the concept.

Originally Posted by Ragu

Please stop your crying. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this change at all!

The new heroics give 140. Current ones will still give 70. If you do 7 of the new ones, which give a greater reward for a much greater challenge and gear level, you will hit the HEROIC CAP of 980, and be unable to earn any more.

Why do you feel entitled to anything whatsoever, simply because you spend more hours sitting at home playing a video game? That is the only argument you are making, and we would all appreciate if you would stop spewing out elitist garbage. I hit my VP cap from just raiding, and I have absolutely no problem with people running heroics for VP, just like they do now.

This a million times.

They already have the gear, but heaven-be-damned if they're going to "allow" someone who can't play more than an hour a day have it without screaming "gg blizz".

Exclusionists want exclusive rights to the game. They don't want harder content, they just want to be the only ones to see it. Ever.

I still don't know if this is enough to make me want to renew.

---------- Post added 2011-03-21 at 04:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by WeFeedOnYourTears

Every casual who denys that they are being spoon-fed just to please them and have them continue paying the subscription fee is a spoiled brat that has gotten everything on a silver plate since birth and suddenly bumped into this thing called "effort" on their way to the "reward", but couldn't understand the concept.

I'm sorry. This isn't a college degree, high school diploma or equivalent. It's not physical rehabilitation after a car crash.
It's. A. Game.
Why do people think that it should come so hard? It should be challenging enough to be engaging and give you a sense of accomplishment, and not a fraking ounce more.

Yes, since it's unacceptable that the ones putting more time and effort into playing the game are entitled to more things, right? Like the guys who work longer days at your workplace aren't supposed to have higher pay, I think they are elitists for thinking that way.

Originally Posted by WeFeedOnYourTears

Yes, since it's unacceptable that the ones putting more time and effort into playing the game are entitled to more things, right? Like the guys who work longer days at your workplace aren't supposed to have higher pay, I think they are elitists!

Alright, I'll bite.
Please provide a business model that will keep a casual player involved enough to pay $15 a month. If only the people that can play 4 hours a day and raid 3 nights a week, you run the risk of losing a huge portion of your paying customers.

If you have everything done (and by the way you are defending your argument, it sounds as if you are a very accomplished raider) then why do you give two shats how fast the "old" gear comes for us that can't play but a little each week? Should t you be concerned with the higher ilvl stuff in the new, harder 5 mans coming out?

Unless, of course my assesment of you is correct and you are, indeed, someone who wishes sole rights to everything wow.

Is there some sort of a problem being casual and wearing gear for casuals?

Originally Posted by WeFeedOnYourTears

Is there some sort of a problem being casual and wearing gear for casuals?

Fundamentally, yes. There is a really big business model problem in seperating your playerbase. You cannot honestly expect someone who pays the same as everyone else to be severly restricted in their ability to see all of the content. One cannot expect that fishing, cooking, and jewelcrafting dailies will be enough to keep customers coming back for more.

As a casual, I have sucked up the fact that I don't get to see everything as fast as a dedicated player. It's fine. It's the nature of the beast. I'm 80% okay with it (I still would rather pay less, but that argument is not this thread). This does not mean I am a bad player. It means I work, have a wife, have housework, have a gym membership, have real life flesh friends, have other games to play. And I'm okay with it, I am. I get to see the stuff about 3 months slower, and pay just the same. I deal.

What I cannot deal with is the pompus additude of exclusionists that think just because they can be celler dwellers and devote >20 hours a week playing a GAME that blizzard should shovel the shit out of their way so the all mighty Minmax can come through and bust some shit up.

Silver platter, indeed.

Why can't you proceed at your own pace? You're basically saying that you should be pulled behind the boat with a rope without having to row at all because you're slower at it.

Thats the thing, a casual player DOES proceed at their own pace, you just don't like it. Tell me something, why do you pigeon hole others because they are not like you, why should you get more because you play more, I'd bet a million dollars you will be first in line to take advantage of the future changes and don't you dare deny it saying "because I've got everything I need" because that BS, especially with two new heroics on their way.

Just because someone considers themselves to be casual, does not in the slightest way at all make them any less dedicated or dare I say skilled than you.

You need to suck it up, take it on the chin and carry the fuck on soldier.

Just my 2 cents, talking about whether or not "casuals" deserve epics or not. If your in a position where you still need valor point gear and are QQing others will get it easier, you are also casual so probably no point in giving others a hard time about it.

If your in a position where your decked in 359 and dont need anything from valor point and your QQing that so called "casuals" can gear up to the same standard as you, stop being bad and start killing HC bosses already, it's not their fault your bad.

On the brightside, my alts are happy and my mains happy because its easier to cap out and get valor boots quicker even when "progressing":see wiping, on a new HC boss which is earlier in the instance so not clearing 12/12 that week.

I can still have my opinion on these things even though they don't concern me personally at all, right? If I had to say something about this that affects me personally it's the fact that if I want to get the weekly Valor Point cap I have to run heroics, since clearing the full raiding content itself doesn't provide me with the amount of points needed. At this point of the raiding tier it doesn't matter, but at the beginning it does. This new system of turning heroics from daily to weekly is pleasing, but I'd rather not touch them at all. Getting 980/1250 Valor Points from heroics a week also means that in the next tier Valor Point gear is handed to casuals and raiders at a similiar rate in the beginning, which cannot be right no matter how you look at it, not that it affects me in the least though.

Your entitled to your opinion, but i remember a few years ago, i think it may have been the twin towers, a news station interviewed Ja Rule to get his feelings on the matter.
I though to myself who cares what Ja rule thinks about that and thats pretty much how i feel now. Your entitled to your opinion but if it's just that you don't need to champion it above all else.
And as for next tier they never said they'd keep valor points from HCs the same as now or raid valor the same, i'm aware that without further info we shouldnt assume they'll give you less valor in 4.2 but it's blizzard you can't assume they wont either. So QQ about that if/when it comes, now is always more important on this game.

Either way the truth is that this spoon-feeding has made heroics mandatory to every raider at the beginning of every tier. Raids should provide the sufficient amounts of points needed, we shouldn't need to run back to mommah's table for a spoonful on top of it. Either make it that way or hand over the spoon to the people themselves.

The "raiders" crying about the new "easy" way to get valor points and thereby epics are playing the game for the wrong reasons really.
If you are a raider what you should be careing about is the ability of your raid team to become a cohesive group of players working together to overcome obsticales and as a result kill challenging and exciting encounters. That is what raiding is all about, to me at least. Of course gear matters, because we all want to see our charecter evolve, but the fact that "casuals" can get epics without actuelly raiding don't take anything away from "raiders". In order to get full epic gear of current tier, you still need to kill raid bosses. In order to get maximum gear 4-set bonuses you still need to kill end-bosses.
So to all those cry-babies out there, start playing the game for the right reasons.

EDIT:
Also, I agree with #139. Clearing all bosses in current raid tier should give enough valor points to meet the weekly cap. I can accept that in the first weeks of a new tier where you aren't killing all the bosses and are still working on normal progression, a few random heroics to meet the cap is needed. Once you are clearing everything on normal, the random heroic farming shouldn't be a neccesity however.

You are very narrow minded if everything you think about only concerns yourself. It doesn't affect me at all, except for being forced to run a few heroics, but I don't agree with it. I'm not crying, I'm stating my opinion. This all started because casuals started crying, they were offered a spoon but they couldn't pick it up so they had to be fed to keep them happy and sitting at the table.
<Mod Edit: Infracted>

Not sure if anyone has heard or not, but will the new "more challenging" heroics have a higher minimum item level. I think the current requirement for heroics is 329, will someone be able to queue for the new heroics at that level, if so then that will be a problem. Nothing like having someone doing subpar DPS in a higher heroic, almost as bad as not pulling 10K at least on BH. I find myself saying the same thing to people in my guild, to many people are trying to leap frog the progression system. I have a few heroic pieces that are not BiS pre raid (I know some classes have BiS from heroics) yeah I think I am ready for raids. NO NO NO. You need to keep doing your heroics, farm some more rep and buy some valor pieces before you try and tackle harder raids.

I am happy about the change in heroic daily to heroic weekly because everyday I don't have to race home from work sit in queue while I cook dinner and hope that the tank doesn't leave, leaving me stuck in queue again. I can relax on a Saturday or Sunday put on a NBA, NFL, college football game and just wait for the heroics to start. Thanks for the change Blizz, but please think about a higher minimum item level for two new heroics.

Originally Posted by ryuke09

so you can get roughly 80% of your VPs, to buy the highest non-heroic raid gear by doing non-raid content? Jesus Christ blizzard how does that make ANY sense whatsoever? why do these people need that level of gear if they arn't going to raid in the first place? its called RAID-gear for a reason damnit

* I dont think alot of people understand, that in order to get into a raid group, if you are not going with your guild, is to have raid gear. My server has maybe a handful of good raiding guilds, that you must be riad geared to get into, & pugs who want you in raid gear to get in as well. Hush the mouth, & read the above posts again. It makes sense.

Why do you guys care so much what gear is available to other players? Just play the damn game. You are still better than everybody else.

---------- Post added 2011-03-22 at 08:34 AM ----------

Originally Posted by bigsandwich732

This change is horrible. 80% of your VP points just by doing heroics? lol? This is a joke right?

I don't even raid anymore, and even I say that non-raiders such as myself definitely DO NOT deserve the amount of points (80%) a raider who puts the time in does.

It sounds like you're saying that many of those players wouldn't be raiding if they didn't get some kind of loot reward out of it.