Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1870 Comments
  1. Renowned's Avatar

    Blizzard have announced that the bag will be BoA.
  1. Saurial's Avatar
    GG - Giving Tanks/healers mounts/etc from places that are easy enough for pretty much any class/spec at level 85 to solo. Take away the mounts and this would actually be a half decent system.
  1. SensAzn's Avatar
    I still won't be playing my tank, just because I don't like random heroics where dps can't even nuke skull.
  1. Mandingo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Killua1001 View Post
    Every healer nowadays can dispell the paralyze, so don't blame the ranged dps for not dotting the boss. As I'm playing a hunter I can't put up a DoT on him. And if a warlock or mage fails, then dispell them. If they die it's your fault as a healer.
    I hope you are trying to troll the thread, or limiting this argument to a group full of hunters*, because otherwise, you are not doing DPS a favor in this argument, so I'll bite for the sake of the greater argument. So what if CTA can attract some sub-par tanks and healers? Statements like yours are more than enough evidence that we have plenty of sub-par DPS in the system already.

    The whole purpose of the "damage removes paralysis" mechanic in the Ozruk encounter is that people can actively avoid requiring a dispel. Note that ranged DPS are dealing damage to the boss, and they all have some form of DoT mechanic (hunters admittedly being the exception in this encounter due to what I consider a slip through the cracks of game mechanics); it's a matter of using that ability when Elementium Bulwark is up. They don't even have to change target. I can understand timing it wrong once or twice, but choosing not to do it? What if the healer times it wrong once or twice as well? You might as well just go stand in the fire.

    The fact is you are expecting, even demanding, that the healer do what you are choosing not to do. And unlike you, healers do have to change target and stop healing in order to cast that DoT**, in addition to then having to dispel you. Taking your statement as an analogy to other encounters, you are pretty much saying DPS does what they want and healers should shut up and dispel all negative status effects/heal through the damage when you choose to stand in the proverbial fire.

    That the healer can help mitigate damage when mistakes are made? Sure. But to say it's the healer's fault that you died when you stood in the fire? Please. I'm afraid everyone should be avoiding all the damage they can unless it's actually more efficient to take it (e.g.- Loken in HoL or Grand Vizier Ertan in pre-hotfix TotFW).

    If what you're looking for is to mindlessly DPS while ignoring everything around you and expect to either: i) survive, or; ii) have someone to blame other than yourself when you die, then "Call to Arms" should be changed to "Buy-a-Healer", where you, not the game, should be paying/providing the incentive in order to justify having the healer tear out his/her hair trying to keep you alive through your bouts of tunnel-visioned inertia.

    * - Not only are you not limiting the argument to a group full of hunter DPS (see references to mages and warlocks in your quote), but you are also forgetting that a hunter can go in to melee the boss for a few seconds and disengage out of Shatter. You can also use a PvP Trinket or even drink Sulfuron Slammer from BRD right as Paralyze is cast.

    ** - Granted, a healer can easily reduce this to a button press via a macro that casts a DoT on their focus' target, but that argument is moot, since the DPS can do the same without a macro to begin with.
  1. Techno Spice's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Saurial View Post
    GG - Giving Tanks/healers mounts/etc from places that are easy enough for pretty much any class/spec at level 85 to solo. Take away the mounts and this would actually be a half decent system.
    I think the idea is that instead of running Sethekk or Strat they'll queue up for the same chance at the drop. Maybe even queue up all day long for more of the same chance at the drop. Quite frankly, vanity mounts and pets are just that; vanity items. They're not giving out items that give these players any kind of advantage in a combat setting unless you want to actually use the FLASKS as a dubious argument. (Anyone can get flasks too, it's called the Auction House). Hence how the blue post said they were choosing this instead of gear/epics. Mounts and pets are not something everyone has to or even wants to get. Hence how it's a purely vanity reward anyway! And for the people saying they get these things "just for playing the game", what do you think it means to be going back and farming them normally LOL.
  1. Mandingo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Renowned View Post

    Blizzard have announced that the bag will be BoA.
    Case closed. If people keep complaining now, I don't know what will sate their thirst for their own tears.
  1. leorana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Saurial View Post
    GG - Giving Tanks/healers mounts/etc from places that are easy enough for pretty much any class/spec at level 85 to solo. Take away the mounts and this would actually be a half decent system.

    I'll explain the difference between farming those places from their dungeons and getting them on the satchels .

    in the case of the baron's mount , no different at all and farming strath is probably more time efficient .

    in the case of the mount which drops from heroic Mgt,shetteck and UP , farming LFD is way more time efficient . you can do those heroics only once a day . meaning , let's say RNG gods decided you need to run the heroic 100 times , it will take you 100 days to get it . the satchel however is given in unlimitec amounts , once each random you complete . let's say you decide to run 5 times a day , it will save you 80 days until you'll get that mount .

    it's a good thing . also , since blizz made this BoA it's now accessible to everyone with a tank alt so this is also a step in the right direction . I don't know if it will actually make more tanks to use LFD but you can't say blizz isn't trying.
  1. Mpif's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanJet View Post
    Myself I'd rather just get the heroic done with as little effort as possible. I'd honestly still que up as DPS even if had to wait 2 hours and they offered those useless mounts and non combat pets. Its not worth my effort to tank in these pug groups.

    That is why I que as DPS when I need those valor points. Listen It would be nice to have the rewards for all since I'm not going to tank pugs anyway (those rewards aren't enough for me to deal with pugs) so it would be nice to get when I'm a DPS. But just think, what you are asking is for Blizzard to give you more rewards for entering the que for no reason at all. Giving a chance for everyone to get the rewards is going to attract DPS as well as tanks and healers meaning the net effect won't help que time anyway. So why implement that change when it won't help the problem they are trying to address? It just makes no sense.
    your brain's functionality is what makes no sense... At the moment only tanks and healers will get the extra reward. the dps will get only if their numbers in the queue are less that those of the others roles... Practically never!!!!!!!!!! but what you get in exchange is the chance to do your daily hc or farm your hc at a much faster rate... How would you address the problem?
  1. Shooka's Avatar
    Blizzard is really pushing players to play other mmos like rift... way to bribe the tanks and healers... btw for all the people saying you shouldn't have rolled a pure dps or anything for that matter.. you couldnt even finish these heroics with out dps.. so please calm down. dps have a right to get a bag of goodies too.
  1. mynxie33's Avatar
    Why are they being so coy about this? "...will now identify which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards." OBVIOUSLY that means tanks. Nice giving only a limited amount of people this reward...they think this will decrease queue times? This will only encourage terrible tanks/not geared tanks to enter. Another thing to make me want to quit... keep it up blizz!
  1. Krauvin's Avatar
    Allow me to put things into perspective for you.
    There are 4 classes that can tank; Death Knight, Druid, Paladin, Warrior = those classes can also dps. Two of those classes can also heal; Druid and Paladin.
    There are 4 classes that can heal; Druid, Paladin, Priest, Shaman = those classes can also dps. Two of those classes can also tank; Druid and Paladin.
    There are 4 PURE dps classes; Hunter, Mage, Warlock, Rogue, these classes can only dps.

    With that said, lets compare the number of dps SPECS: for pure dps classes its 12, 2 specs for Death Knight, 2 specs for Druid, 1 spec for Paladin, 1 spec for Priest, 2 specs for Shaman, and 2 specs for Warrior.

    So to recap:
    Tank specs: 4
    Healing specs: 4
    DPS specs: 22

    EVERYONE CAN DPS! Not everyone chooses to tank or heal, therefore it causes the LFD finder to not be balanced. DPS outnumbers tanks and healers by a wide number.

    Wanna keep crying? Everyone has a choice for the class they choose and the specs within that class.
  1. chaos61988's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelody View Post
    I apologize now for any nice, good, and understanding tanks. You are few, but you are wonderful, and I make sure each one knows that after every instance I have with them.
    now if only their were more players like you out there that made us feel like we arent wasting our time..
  1. Gungara's Avatar
    It's funny all the complaining about mounts, which are purely cosmetic, and have no effect on actual game mechanics.
    Adding the gold will skew the economy slightly, deflating prices hurting sellers. Adding flasks will screw the Alchemists somewhat on prices.

    Overall it this the benefits outweigh the problems, so I'm in favor of this change.

    If I was the game designer, I would change the Enhancement Shaman and Beastmaster Hunter trees to allow tanking. It would not be hard.
  1. TheyCallMeTarzan's Avatar
    And what about the Feats of Strength that are attached to some of these mounts?

    They specifically state "Obtain the <mount> from from <boss> in <dungeon>". Now there is a chance for getting Feats of Strength for just doing a daily heroic? The loser that came up with this idea deserves to get the boot. And those who though "hey, lets implement it" should be demoted to cleaning.

    Such poor thinking.
  1. chaos61988's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynix View Post
    So basically what you're saying is you want a pat on the back for doing your job? Nobody gets that dude, and if the healer gets it, it's probably because you lost agro on something and the healer managed to heal through it.... I'm not goig to praise you just because you can hold threat against me... In fact I usually don't expect tanks to out threat me as a fury warrior in a heroic... (I know what omen is I just don't bother unless it's a raid because tbh I could prolly tank a mob in a heroic no probs..). I always praise tanks that can hold threat through all my burst CDs Specially when I pop 3 at a time. You rarely ever see 'Good job DPS' do you...? NO! Because dps just do their job.

    You're not entitled to extra praise... Get over yourselves if you think otherwise
    you obviously read only half my post. no i always keep aggro. that is not the point. the point is there are so many dps that give us tanks a hard time for -anything and everything- your post just now proves that. you assume that we are incompetent before you even start the instance or see if we are good or not. half the time i want to quit pug before the instance even begins. i never said we/i are entitled. quit your exaggerating of my words to make your point.

    also. you know what omen is but you just dont use it? that type of attitude is exactly why nobody wants to tank for you. not all tanks are as geared as YOU. you need to play reactory based on the skill/gear of the PARTY. if there is a newly heroic geared tank he/she will not be able to hold aggro over someone in full epics if they are going all out as if threat doesnt matter. YOU get over YOURSELF. get omen. use it. love it.

    It's players like you that give DPS a bad name. you probably get aggro not because your "that damn good." you probably get aggro because you dont know how to /assist or follow a damn raid mark to burn down. attacking whatever target you feel like...

    and you wonder why us tanks dont want to be bothered.
  1. PulpFiction's Avatar
    This is right how? Tanks get instant ques already, and healers wait only a couple minutes as it is. It is the Dps that waits 25 to 35 minutes everytime we que. The wait times don't bother me that is when I do dailies restock things and make myself useful, people crying about the length are obviously just sitting there watching time tick off get over it, that's why I have an issue. And do not give me this garbage about making a tank or healer. Blizzard provided several classes for us to play so we could chose what we WISH to play, not to be FORCED into something we do not want to play. I for one do not like melee classes at all and I do have a priest and a druid how ever I prefer Dps. I should not be pressured in to playing a class I don't not like or feel comfortable with to get a mount or pet (esp for those of us who collect them) just because I prefer Dps toons when the tanks and healers of the game already have it made in que. My mage is my baby and my main, the one I collect everything on and I sure the heck am not going to toss her by the way side. So what do we do about the tons of players out there like me cause I know there are TONS of us.
    Also just imagine all the craptastic tanks this is gonna bring out of the wood works.... god that thought is gonna give me nightmares.
  1. chaos61988's Avatar
    This entire thread is retarded and made of so much fail i dont even...

    I rebuke thee! lol
  1. Dyra's Avatar
    The temptation is strong to bring out my healer to come out and play in random dungeons, IF this ever makes it to live.

    Sucks be to the players who have rogues, mages, hunters and warlocks as their mains though if it does make it. If you need the valor points and want the prizes you've got to run at least twice a day AND probably still have to deal with a long queue regardless.
  1. Zweistein's Avatar
    this is a hunter nerf, obvously
  1. Sundarsu's Avatar
    Essentially what's happening here is your rewarding some people for doing what they already are doing?

    You did this once before Blizzard, remember the additional Justice/Valor points? It worked out just fine when you rewarded everyone.

    As for the 20+ min queues, no. Try 35+, occasionally at 4 am, you can get 20 min queues.

    There are so many more solutions to this problem, and they will actually make the game, MORE ACCESSIBLE. surprise, surprise. more tanking classes (shamans are a good example), rewarding the 'goodies' to any random heroic queue or simply improving the quality of heroics enough to where tanks actually want to queue. how about grouping the people who are repeatedly kicked from groups into their own queue?

    apparently the recent round of promotions got someone into the wrong position. while youre rewarding... tanks (healers and dps wont be getting these goodies, btw) is not how you solve this issue. as someone said earlier, the satchel will increase you're chance to get the mount by 80 days or something? you're making the 'cosmetic' part of the game more accessible to tanks and snuffing everyone else. making enemies with your customer base is probably not the greatest idea considering the amount of players that have already left wow.

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