Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue, and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics, the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms, and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold, a chance at a rare gem, a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec), a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets), and a very rare chance at receiving a mount. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme.

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing.

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort.

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 1870 Comments
  1. Zeeus's Avatar
    just put [Ashes of Al'ar] and u will get the necesary attention and everybody gona do damn heroics put very low droprate people like mounts with something like that I wont stop doin heorics .
  1. Nornai's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post

    Please leave to rift already, my head hurts watching you dumbledores fuddle over a win/win decision, queue times go down for dps and healers, and tanks have a small reason to jump in with you brain dead retards, win-win.
    Yeah, 'cause you're a braindead retard just for queuing as DPS? (And to a lesser extent, healer.) You sound like one of those annoying tanks who think they own the game because they have instant queues and think people won't kick them.

    Well, I delight in kicking such people, just to show them that they aren't godlike. Or just letting them die by not healing them. (After having told the DPS to stay clear, of course. Wouldn't want collateral damage.)

    Finally; nobody forces you to read these threads. Thus, you could save yourself the headache by not participating.

    Please, as you put it, "leave to rift already".
  1. Mabaroshi's Avatar
    All this is going to do is beckon in a ton of 329 ilvl tanks who are only in it for the mount and make the aquisition that much less of an achievement...
  1. sevenbug's Avatar
    Increase HP from mobs by about ~~ 20%
    Add one player in party ( 5 => 6 ).

    Result : Queue time => -15mn for the DPS.
    Done, thanks
  1. Cognition's Avatar
    This idea itself, is a very good idea, however it is very flawed at its current arrangement. Please read on.

    I think it is quite ridiculous that they are using current in game mounts for this purpose; it quite frankly ruins the fact that these mounts are rare and depreciates their value. Aside from that, a lot of people ALREADY have them which will lessen the amount of ppl willing to queue for them anyway. Even if it is only 15% of the tanks that would-be queuing, but wont because they already have the mounts.. that is already 15% less tanks. Not only that, but the people who already own these mounts, are probably good tanks for that matter because they have a good knowledge of the game to know that these mounts exist and where to get them in the first place.

    As for the pets, same deal except there will be even more ppl who already own those proposed pets, which will again make the pets 'less special' to ppl who already own them because random ppl are just receiving them from a dungeon out of nowhere, but also cut a number of tanks out of the equation all together because they already own them ANYWAY.

    I propose that Blizzard DOES implement this idea, however the mounts and pets that are rewarded should be entirely new mounts, whether they are just reskinned versions of the currently suggested mounts, or whole new models all together. This way you have a maximum pool of tanks queuing, rather than a much smaller amount for no reason and at the same time you aren’t taking the value away from the current suggested mounts. I noticed that there were a few mount model files in the game files that were not used as mounts to be dropped in the upcoming ZA/ZG revamp, so why not use them instead, or for that matter why not use other non-used mount models/skins that are not in use, such as the very original wow mount models that were available for a short time before being removed/tradeable at mount trainers.

    I know that i for one, and my friend who is a full t11 geared tank, will not be recommencing queuing for the roll of tank after this patch, due to the fact that we already own all of these mounts so there is just no point. Please take what i have said into consideration, and if you agree with me please spread this message, because i for one and others i know, would love some incentive to tank these places and am currently happy with the idea, but disappointed with the rewards.
  1. mmopriest's Avatar
    Just a few comments.
    I run a healer main and my only alt is tank but this isn't going to make me run and queue for random 5 man heroics and this is why.

    Pre-Cata mounts from dungeons.
    - All soloable (as my healing class), including the ones from LK heroics. With maximum run time about 15 minutes per (at worst).

    Post-Cata dungeon mounts from dungeons.
    - Have a mate who tanks up and we duo them. Maximum time takes about 18 minutes (each).

    Random 5-man heroic pug. Usually takes minimum 20 minutes usually much longer because you just can't count on people not scrubbing up.
    - Fail DPS, Fail CC, Fail tanks and tank gear (from the perspective of the healer) make for an aggravating long painful not fun experience.

    Why I don't run multiple heroics in cata.
    - The VP reward system sucks.
    * Mainly this is because I only have time to run heroics on on weekends. Yes, should be better when it becomes a weekly cap.
    * If I do have extra time on a weekend (or weekday) why bother running additional heroics once you've done a daily random or hit your cap?
    * By the time I could afford my first VP piece I had already received heroic drops for nearly every slot and even picked up a couple of raid drops.
    - Less effort to just go raid for gear than it is to grind the measly VP offering from the random daily. Especially since the raid difficulty has been watered down ... already.

    I'm sure this sounds like complaining but it isn't I'm just trying to point out the reasons I don't queue multiple times in a day.

    Why I queued in lich king.
    - Every heroic got me badges. The more time I had the more reward I gained. Of course it was still capped in the sense that once I was saved to all of them I couldn't do anymore. But I remember being able to buy gear with badges every 3 or 4 days instead of 3 or 4 weeks.

    Will extra gold entice me? Not unless it is a lot of gold.
    - I doubt I would run for less than 500g. To be honest 45 minutes of horrible heroic and repair bills probably can't compete with 30 minutes of dailies and 10 minutes of AH time. Time investment to return value will have to be there if gold is to entice anybody.


    Probably a lot more tanks and healers will be rolled. Could be good, could be bad.
    Probably a lot more people (who can) run as offspec to try and get the reward. Problem with offspecs is usually people can't play them or they aren't properly geared.
    - Leads to an even more painful heroic, longer, more costly.
    - I'd be more likely to just leave mid-dungeon if it was clear this was the problem. I'll take my debuf and go play PVP with the AFKers until it wears off.

    Will say that DPS have to wear some blame for why running with them is unpopular. Certainly a high percentage of the time at least 2 dps out of three are guilty of being complete scrubs. Again, no cc, breaking cc, standing aoe, using aoe when inappropriate, pulling threat off the tank (hi hunters) ninjaing healer gear because it's an ilevel upgrade and worrying more about your meters than keeping yourselves alive.

    You made your beds.
  1. Alphaknyte's Avatar
    A lot of you are angry because tanks/heals are getting extra rewards for queueing in the CTA system, If they also get rewards that benefit their tanking/healing spec they shouldn't have first priority on loot drops that benefit their tanking/healing spec if a dps needs in for their Tanking or healing spec. This should balance rewards between the Group because we all know there is no shortage of dps so hence they will probably never get extra reared from the CTA system.
  1. Cognition's Avatar
    If you agree with my post that they should have different mounts available instead of those same ones, please post on:
  1. Muntwoman's Avatar
    I completely agree with this. I farmed all of these mounts continuously and for a long period of time. I am a healer and will NOT be queuing for instances any more than I was before the idea of these rewards came out because I ALREADY have these mounts. If you do implement this and random people start getting these rare mounts, then I have completely wasted my time farming them, and beside that I will not see any incentive in queuing as a healer for a daily heroic. If you are going to make these rewards have mounts and pets, make it so they have different skin types or entirely new mounts and pets all together. It isn't fair to ruin it for a percentage of good players just to give reason to less better players, to queue for instances.
  1. Magnhild's Avatar
    Someone has probably already said this:
    * The shorter queues will only benefit DPS still gearing up.

    If you're already geared up and/or raiding, you've prolly quit doing heroics long ago, even as DPS. I have no incentive going into heroics, as there is nothing I really need anymore. Same with my healers. If I wnat to do a valor-run, i go with my guild.

    What's unfair here is that this was rewarding only certain roles (before it turned BoA). So, tanks are rare and have no incentiev to do heroics, let's reward them! Good DPS is also rare, but the only incentive they'll have is that they'll have a shorter queue? Not even a shorter queue would give me incentive, as I do other stuff while in queue.

    Awaiting the "DPS are useless, we can do everything with a tank and a healer"-posts.
  1. IKT's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nornai View Post
    Yeah, 'cause you're a braindead retard just for queuing as DPS?
    If you can't read, don't respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nornai View Post
    Finally; nobody forces you to read these threads. Thus, you could save yourself the headache by not participating.
    I like reading threads, not reading dumb posts.(like yours)
  1. leomuller's Avatar
    To give a better incentive is good, because the long DPS-queues are not enjoyable. Even worse, once in, often the tank leaves, and you are back in the queue again. The game and content should be enjoyed. So giving an insentive is a nice start, but not enough.

    Soon that insentive will be outbalanced. and we will be back to square one. Basically the group structure is out of balance, because:
    1. Long dungeons.
    2. Hard dungeons.
    3. Tanking isn't easy (without a good healer)

    Why not change this?
    Maybe make a dungeon that doens't need the classic tank. Use mounts, dragons, vehicles. But not for part of the intstance, let us do a whole thing without a tank. I am sure that you can come up with a nice way of 5 people having to co-operate and have some fun content. And if you can't make a 'tank potion'. A potion that will give someone -50% damage reduction, and +75% threat gen. Or something like that. you get the idea. Once you do that, the amount of DPS, tanks and healers will be better balanced.
  1. Mammoth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sundarsu View Post
    Essentially what's happening here is your rewarding some people for doing what they already are doing?

    You did this once before Blizzard, remember the additional Justice/Valor points? It worked out just fine when you rewarded everyone.

    As for the 20+ min queues, no. Try 35+, occasionally at 4 am, you can get 20 min queues.

    There are so many more solutions to this problem, and they will actually make the game, MORE ACCESSIBLE. surprise, surprise. more tanking classes (shamans are a good example), rewarding the 'goodies' to any random heroic queue or simply improving the quality of heroics enough to where tanks actually want to queue. how about grouping the people who are repeatedly kicked from groups into their own queue?

    apparently the recent round of promotions got someone into the wrong position. while youre rewarding... tanks (healers and dps wont be getting these goodies, btw) is not how you solve this issue. as someone said earlier, the satchel will increase you're chance to get the mount by 80 days or something? you're making the 'cosmetic' part of the game more accessible to tanks and snuffing everyone else. making enemies with your customer base is probably not the greatest idea considering the amount of players that have already left wow.
    This point has been addressed many times before. Compared to the number of tanking spec's the tanks are still hugely underpopulated in the HC queue. The raiding tanks aren't interested in going back to HCs. Tanking bosses is what tanks enjoy, trash is just stressful. So you can make as many tanking classes as you like, you're not going to improve the situation.

    The Blizz solution isn't that stupid when you realise the bags are BoA. No player is refused the chance to get the bag, all you have to do is roll a role that is required by the population base. You can then get the bags and post them to your main.
  1. Sangrael's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
    I've just registered to say this: you're an idiot.
    I take it you're one of the bad DKs charging for heroic runs.
  1. iidesu's Avatar
    This is actually pretty cool.
  1. Terran's Avatar
    It seems to me that we are going to have people in dps gear who can queue as a tank or a healer, doing so and going "LOLFREESHITPLEASEDONTKICKME." This solved very little.
  1. Eltope24's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracens View Post
    It seems to me that we are going to have people in dps gear who can queue as a tank or a healer, doing so and going "LOLFREESHITPLEASEDONTKICKME." This solved very little.
    I have to agree. I get tired of tanking so I usually queue as a healer, but the tanks that queue for randoms are at least 50% of the time in dps gear. This will not fix the problem with the lack of tanks, it will just create more frustration when people have to put up with bad tanks. Insert "we all started somewhere" statements. Fact is there are so many web sites and addons nowadays that if people actually took the time to read and download would make for easier times. Unfortunately the reality is people find it easier to be lazy and waste the other 4 peoples' time in the group. Insert rewards system for people who don't do stupid shit in the random, not the role.
  1. Seraphita's Avatar
    God this is going to suck. I'm a healer (druid) love healing, been doing it forever. I no longer need JP but I still run random heroics because, hey, it's how I enjoy the game. This. Right. Here. This is what's going to happen. Mr. Ret Pally is going to go to all of the rep vendors and pick up his tanking gear (he has no clue how to tank, never has) He's going to skip gemming and enchanting his stuff because lets face it, that's way too expensive.

    Now he's going to have half and half on. Half tanking crap, half DPS stuff and he's going to que as tank to get his little baggie of goodies. I am not looking forward to healing these guys at all. Well at least when we boot him the wait for another fail tank won't be that long.
  1. Anaeska's Avatar
    Dear Pure DPS:

    Hahahahahaha, Hope you still like being treated like a second class citizen for a decision you made years ago!

    No love,
    Blizzard Entertainment
  1. jearle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The High Druid View Post
    My suggestion to all the DPS complaining about this: Spend your 40 minute queue times farming the dungeons for the mounts.
    I lol'd, good point though.

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