Ask the Devs #6 - Guild Advancement - Answers
Originally Posted by Draztal (Blue Tracker)
The answers are in from our last installment of Ask the Devs. Please keep in mind that each edition of Ask the Devs is focused on a specific topic, as noted in the thread title

The guild perks system makes it unnaturally hard to start a new guild, since a guild without all perks is at an obvious disadvantage in recruitment. In addition, it rewards just recruiting random people (who might only care about the perks) to get guild XP. What are your thoughts on this? Will it be addressed? – Lolisa [Europe, English], Mith [North America]

We knew when we decided to add guild features for Cataclysm that this was one of the risks. If the guild perks and rewards aren't interesting, then there is no motivation to join a guild or work to improve your guild. On the other hand if they are too powerful, then you feel shackled to your old guild, even if it's not a healthy relationship for you. We were careful to only choose perks that didn't contribute to player power, and we let you keep any rewards you earn if you ever have to leave your guild. The perks are nice, no doubt, but you're going to have less fun in an established guild of jerks than you would starting your own guild with fewer perks.

We don't think recruiting random people is healthy for a guild. Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties. We really encourage as many people as possible to seek out guilds (and we hope the new Guild Finder will help with that), but joining a guild at random will likely end in tears.

On the other hand, there may be some benefit to having less churn on starting guilds. Before Cataclysm, some guilds would get started halfheartedly and then crumble again after a few weeks or months. Maintaining an active guild asks a lot of the guild master and leading officers. If you join an established guild in Cataclysm, hopefully it will continue to be around for awhile. But because of reputation, even brand new guilds may seem like a more serious option than they were before Cataclysm, since the founders of the guild know that anyone interested is likely looking for a long-term home and are not just hopping from guild to guild.

Leveling guild speed varies depending on the amount of players. Have you considered tweaking the system so that guilds with fewer members get more experience per player and bigger guilds get less to even it out? Are there plans to allow smaller guilds to level their guild faster? – *蜂 火星小喵喵 [Taiwan], Sergan [Latin America], Jardar [Europe, German], Паладиа [Europe, Russian], Amasisa [Europe, Spanish], Shory, *너맨/*대현혹, Meltdown, 치킨***워/유진님 [Korea]

Guild Challenges coming in patch 4.1 are designed to help address this issue. Obviously we already enforce a cap on the amount of XP that can be gained per day to keep the disparity from being too large, but it’s clear that smaller guilds still need some help. We'll monitor the impact of Guild Challenges and see if any further changes need to be made.

Are you planning to address the issue of Guild Leaders mass kicking members, once the guild reaches level 25? – Bloodbliss [North America], Юхани [Europe, Russian]

We don't really have any interest in controlling who a guild leader chooses to kick, or when. Guilds are fairly transparent and simple player-run groups, and we have to be extremely careful about what systems we implement that impact how people can operate their guilds. We could absolutely make it more difficult for guild leaders to kick their members, and that might help very slightly with these situations, but the result would actually be that guild leaders would just be much less likely to invite new members. We want people to be in guilds, as opposed to making guild masters afraid that if they invite someone they may never be able to kick them if they don't work out.

Allowing players to keep some level of guild reputation is an option we can look into to help with this situation, though.

Is there any way to recover a guild which is deliberately disbanded by evil account hacker or lunatic guild leader? – 哇靠不是吧 [Taiwan]

The best way to deal with this situation is to immediately contact a World of Warcraft Game Master.

Are we going to see guild houses someday so we could finally get a special gather place for the guild, to meet and interact easily? – Ellidryl[Europe, French], Греланд[Europe, Russian], Ledieri [Europe, Spanish], Bodywreckér [North America]

Guild housing is something we have discussed many times. It would be neat to have a place for people to hang out, but every time it has come up as a possibility we don't think that is worth the amount of time and resources it would take to implement (and do it right). This is one of those features where if we ever decided to do it, the benefit would have to outweigh other content we could be working on. Also, we don't feel that we need any new ways for players to hide themselves away. If possible we at least like people to be hanging around in the cities, if not out in the world. We know that many guilds, despite lack of official guild housing, have designated meeting locations throughout the world, which we think is really cool. If you don't have one yet it might be something to explore.

Why is guild experience capped daily instead of weekly? – Omegal [North America], Nuckels [Europe, English]

We implemented a daily cap so that more players get a chance to contribute every day. A weekly cap would make this more difficult since a guild might hit the cap the first day, leaving no experience for the other members to gain over the remaining 6 days of the week. If you could only login on Thursday, and the cap was always already hit before you could log in, you might not be as interested in this whole guild progression thing.

However, we will be reducing the impact of the cap as we move though the Cataclysm patches. We will most likely start by increasing the daily cap, and removing it from more of the higher levels.

Why isn't guild XP from quests a factor of character level, quest difficulty, and intended quest level, instead of being derived directly from XP gained? Why is guild reputation so hard to gain before level 70? It feels as though it's harder to gain reputation with your guild at the beginning and easier as you gain levels; shouldn't it be the other way around? – Atun [North America], Threshold [Europe, English], Helíana [Latin America]

The experience gained from a quest is directly related to all of these factors, which is why we use it as a basis to reward guild experience. Clearly this value is much smaller at lower levels and we know that this does not feel great with the current tuning. We're going to tune the XP multiplier for doing lower level quests so it doesn't feel like such a waste. Guild reputation suffers from this same multiplier issue too, and when we tune the experience the rep gain will be improved as well. Rep gain will also be much improved though in patch 4.1 with the introduction of the new guild tabards, and increased values on clearing dungeons, raids and winning arenas and battlegrounds.

It seems that the new guild system is killing off the Pick Up Group culture in KR. In KR, raids were generally done through PUG and players did not care what kind of guilds they joined for raids. Can we expect more localized guild features to support the unique raid culture of the Korean region? –밥상의달*, Jeran, ***베* [Korea]

We will continue to pay close attention to and work to protect the various in-game cultures in each region. However, we don't have plans to change the structure of the system at this time.

Are there any plans to allow for easier alt access to the same guild rewards as someone's main character? Perhaps some kind of +rep item that is BoA and can only be bought by an exalted character? – Serule [North America], Xheevas [Europe, French]

This is one of the main reasons 4.1 has new guild tabards with 50/100% bonus to rep. We made sure to place these at friendly and honored so they would be easy to obtain by alts. We are considering adding an even larger bonus to an exalted, BOA version as well. Great minds think alike!

Will there be additional levels of rewards for those guilds that have reached the cap in future patches? Are you going to add levels beyond 25? – Sergan [Latin America], Carnesîr [Europe, German], Zippi [Europe, English], Gabän [Europe, Spanish]

Yes, we will continue to add rewards to the system as necessary. A great example is the guild reward we intend to add in patch 4.2 for guilds that obtain the new legendary staff. Guilds at level 25 also get the benefit of large gold deposits for completing Guild Challenges. Capping the guild system at level 25 felt right for the amount of content we wanted to provide in Cataclysm. We designed the system with expansions in mind, so raising the cap is something players will most likely see down the road.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Ask the Devs #6 - Guild Advancement - Answers started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 28 Comments
  1. conversekitty's Avatar
    Rewards are never going to be a substitute for strong social ties.
    Orly?! Then what is this thing called 'Call of Arms' for PvE? That thing that you get when you only queue for a role by yourself because no one around you will pick it up, and you can not obtain said reward with a group?

    Obvious double standard is obvious...
  1. zrankfappa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sethers656 View Post
    I am a GM of a guild where we did this. I mass recruited anyone in the 70-84 range just so we could get Guild Level 25 fast. Now this might sound horrible at first, but it really worked out for all of us.
    I don't think this is horrible, it is predictable behavior. I doubt though that Blizzard had this scenario in mind when they designed it. I also think that it could have been avoided quite easily by having guild experience scale with the number of accounts in a guild. That would have not been such a blatant contradiction in design versus function
  1. bergmann620's Avatar
    Of all my various annoyances with WoW over the years, the only one that has persisted was how dumbly easy it was to create a guild.

    People only ever value things they have to work for. There really shouldn't need to be more than 100 guilds per faction per server- more than that, and you're duplicating things that don't need to be and muddling the chances of mid-level players that could hold down a raid spot if their guild wasn't tragic.

    There will always be joke guilds here and there, but WoW set the standard in the sense that the overwhelming majority of guilds are joke guilds, whether intentional or not. In my opinion, it's always been one of the things that has held back the server community- making it tough for new players to find a worthwhile home and at the same time increasing the cynicism and jaded-ness of veterans who must wade through a sea of 'scrubs' when many of those scrubs are scrubs simply because the 200-member feeding trough guild they joined out in Westfall doesn't show them any other possibilities.

    So, I am all for anything that increases the importance of a good guild. I think it's a huge positive that you'll actually need a solid base (either friends or in-game acquaintances) if you hope to get a new guild off the ground. I just wish that you needed 100g and 10 sigs to start a guild in Vanilla... As we've seen from a content perspective, it's tough to transition from lol-mode to something that's actually worth doing.
  1. Rotenn's Avatar
    This game rarely receives any positive commentary now a days. Wonder why so many still play it.
  1. bergmann620's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rotenn View Post
    This game rarely receives any positive commentary now a days. Wonder why so many still play it.
    It's because the people that enjoy it are playing it, rather than trolling forums
  1. Kwickslash's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    It's because the people that enjoy it are playing it, rather than trolling forums
    A million times this.

    All the whiners keep saying "Look how many people are complaining on the forums! Can't you see it's bad design!", but the reality is that it's only ever the whiners that bother to make the threads to complain in. You'll never see the forums filled with any "Thankyou Blizzard for providing me with years worth of entertainment and allowing me to meet so many new friends who I stay in regular contact with." threads because they thank Blizzard by continually supporting their product and enjoying it.

    Guarantee if Blizzard was to set up a small, few question survey in-game that the significant majority of the feedback would be mostly positive.
  1. Explosion_Rex's Avatar
    A fucking housing question AGAIN?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me!?!?! GGGAAHAAAAAHapejtweo;irjd;hjklsdh!!!!11
  1. Astalnar's Avatar
    Once again, making new skins for demons and druids outweights something like guild hall. Good to know. In my oppinion that translates to economical, skins take much less time then guild hall. Yes, they might be working on the next patch, but can't the same excuse then be used for reskins as well?

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