Patch 4.2 PTR Notes - 06/14 Update

Was there really a need to add Firelands Raid and Baradin Hold...

Originally Posted by wakarimas

I dont like that they are forcing arena-people to do rated battlegrounds. So much fail!

That's not really true after the first week. If you're good at Arena and get a higher rating, your Arena cap will actually be higher than your RBG cap. It's really designed to reduce the "farm cap with 0 rating teams" effect of the previous season, which has a tendency to really depress new entrants to arena when they get roflstomped ten games in a row.

Originally Posted by bojan2109

since when?

A lot of the end-tier bosses have been made arguably easier with the nerfs on 10-man. Al'Akir was always incomparably easier and the removal of a whole add on Cho'gall and the tank wrack on Sinestra made the only other challenges rather dwindling. As for Nefarian, that may or may not be harder on ten, but I think more so that it's easier just with the constraint of a tight setup requirement for kicking.

omfg. FUCK THAT CHANGE.
really? a higher cap for rated bg's? wow.. just... wow.

Originally Posted by ScorchHellfire

Wait... is the cap still 980? Because if it is then 25 man raiders have less reason to do BH...

Only reason to do BH is the chance to get T12 early.... w/o that possible drop... it takes a month or 5 weeks to get the 3 pieces.

Originally Posted by huden0414

omfg. FUCK THAT CHANGE.
really? a higher cap for rated bg's? wow.. just... wow.

People are not reading the entire paragraph:

The following week the cap will be recalculated based on the character's ratings, and it is possible Arena rating could now generate the higher cap. The second week, the character's cap from Arena rating is 1600, and the cap from Rated Battlegrounds is 1500. The character has a total cap of 1600 Conquest points for the week. Up to 1500 points can be earned from Rated Battlegrounds, but the last 100 must come from a different source

Yes, the first week of the season you can only cap with a couple RBG wins. But after that? It depends on how good you actually are at arena.

Anyone else curious as to who will be the world first shaman with this thing?! Come on, I know all you casters are gonna be pissed...

Originally Posted by Tylium

Wait....why the hell are 25s still getting more VP per kill than 10s??? The difficulty between 10 and 25 is supposed to be identical now remember Blizz?

Because they wanted to give some incentive for people to still run 25's? Not that it matters that much anyway getting the weekly VP cap was easy regardless if you ran 10 or 25 in T11 and its not getting any harder in T12

Originally Posted by Tylium

And it's already easier for 25s to gear up (2 drops per boss in 10man vs 5 drops in 25), not to mention the added loot RNG of having a lesser raid composition. Thanks for screwing 10 mans again.

Clearly, 10/2 = 5, 25/5 = 5 Oh 25's have so much more loot per member.

good/bad change. dunno if its good or bad cant really decide yet

Originally Posted by bojan2109

since when?

IKR? This person is living in a bizzaro universe.

---------- Post added 2011-06-15 at 07:11 AM ----------

Originally Posted by IPWNFGZRS

Clearly not ever tried Al'Akir - have you

People who are in 10man guilds say 25s are easier
People in 25man guilds say other wise.
People who do both 10man and 25man say some fights are easier in 10man then 25, others more easy in 25man.

Lol. You cite Al'Akir, literally the only boss more difficult on 25. There isn't even any dispute at all: 10 mans are more difficult than 25. It's just a fact.

Originally Posted by Evory

Because they wanted to give some incentive for people to still run 25's? Not that it matters that much anyway getting the weekly VP cap was easy regardless if you ran 10 or 25 in T11 and its not getting any harder in T12



Clearly, 10/2 = 5, 25/5 = 5 Oh 25's have so much more loot per member.

Yes, of course mathematically the loot per member is the same, but the chance for specific loot to drop is, onbviously, higher (though your chance to win it over your guildies is smaller, of course, but in due time this is no longer the case as your guildies will already have it and 5 drops is still 5 drops). For example, we went weeks and weeks and weeks without seeing the plate boots from I believe Chimaeron (being a 10man guild), but again and again the Galoshes which all our clothies who wanted it already had, on bóth normal and heroic mode, so that was twice the same disaster for 3 platies. That's a lot of bad luck right there.

I personally don't care, we have a lot of fun and I'd run 10s anyday over 25s (and that's while I always was a big fan of the bigger the raid, the better), with an amazing guild and nor loot or VP will stop us at this point.

I do agree however that it makes no sense at this point to give more VP to 25s. What kind of an incentive is that? Any decent guild was drowning in VP halfway through their progress, 10 ór 25. People ask every week if "any alt needs some VP boots maybe, I'm capped again"-- it just makes 10man VP gain a bit slower at first. Not to mention 10man is no longer the joke it used to be, quite the contrary even in this expansion. In many cases 10man (heroic) was simply a lot harder, not in the first place because you needed such specific classes to be able to do what anyone can in 25s or specific gear requirements, but also because the majority of fights is simply a lot better suited for 25s (like Sinestra), and where 10man just feels unnecessarily annoying and rough to handle. That for me doesn't make it any less fun but it does completely defy the point of needing any kind of additional incentive to do 25s, this difficulty difference alone, if they retain it in Firelands, should be plenty. Not to mention a lot of people still prefer 25s and wouldn't run 10s if their life depended on it. I am convinced a few more VP won't swing the favor to any direction of either 10s or 25s. Pugs still do mostly 10 mans (I can't recall any 25 man pug recently!), less VP or not. Did you ever see someone go "oh no I'll do 25 because I'll get 60 more VP for the 3 bosses this pug may down?" come on.

Originally Posted by IPWNFGZRS

Clearly not ever tried Al'Akir - have you

oh i want to play

cleary not ever tried Sinestra 10 - have you

oooh, I want to play too!

clearly not ever soloed Archavon 10 - have you

...damn I suck at this.

Originally Posted by taymatt

Lol. You cite Al'Akir, literally the only boss more difficult on 25. There isn't even any dispute at all: 10 mans are more difficult than 25. It's just a fact.

Al'akir, Ascendant Council, Cho'gall and Sinestra (all heroic), the most challenging 25man encounters, are all easier on 10man after the nerfs. Any 25man guild, not in top 100 world, will always have it easier on 10man too, since most 25man guilds carry a lot of people who are performing subpar (maybe 5-12 people each raid), so by bringing the best raiders for a 10man raid, they wil basically kill new bosses much much faster. This is also why (on my server where a lot of guilds have killed 13/13), I saw a lot of decent 25man guilds go down and went 10man instead around the time the nerfs for 10man happened.

What about Argalon in BH? I see no mention of him no longer giving less VP or JP instead of VP in the patch notes for 4.2.

Originally Posted by Evory

Clearly, 10/2 = 5, 25/5 = 5 Oh 25's have so much more loot per member.

amount of random loot per member is same but chance of getting the correct loot even once is much higher.

if you kill 10 times boss:

in 10 man 2x10=20 loots so even with 5% chance you'll get atleast once that loot.
in 25 man 5x10=50 loots so even with 2% chance you'll get atleast once that loot.

Originally Posted by Eskopommi

amount of random loot per member is same but chance of getting the correct loot even once is much higher.

if you kill 10 times boss:

in 10 man 2x10=20 loots so even with 5% chance you'll get atleast once that loot.
in 25 man 5x10=50 loots so even with 2% chance you'll get atleast once that loot.

The advantage there is offset by the fact that you can get up to at least 3 of the same item at once (I have never seen more than 3 at once so I think that is the cap but correct me if I am wrong). I am sure that if someone who understands statistical math a lot better than I do ran the numbers, 25s still have a slightly higher chance to get a particular item, but in the real world I have a toon that I run in a 25-man and an alt that I run through 10s. Both geared up at about the same pace. The loot advantage is not as great as people think it is.

As for the VP change, it seems to me that the only complaint that has been addressed is the ability to cap VPs by raiding Firelands alone. T11 raids are still worth next to nothing, and someone running only heroics can still hit cap without setting foot in a raid. I wonder if Blizzard intended this to be the way it worked the entire time? As in, they knew they had a change that was gonna make people storm the forums. So they announce an even more drastic change, wait for the angry mob to arrive, then toss them a cookie by implementing the original change they wanted that, in comparison, doesn't seem that bad. The angry mob goes away because it thinks got what it wanted, and Blizzard gets to implement the changes they wanted to do in the first place without all that much fuss.

Well now this was actually needed

I support this

Originally Posted by weightless

aww boo, i wanted to see blacksen not quit after saying he was quitting.

lol

loltooshort

Originally Posted by Ovan

What about Argalon in BH? I see no mention of him no longer giving less VP or JP instead of VP in the patch notes for 4.2.

Most likely going to give JPS like the rest of the bosses in his tier.