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Explanation of 4.2 Balance Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We understand that raw patch notes don’t always provide enough context for changes to the game, so we thought we’d take a moment to explain some of our logic behind the buffs and nerfs coming in the 4.2 “Rage of the Firelands” patch. We particularly want to try to combat the perception that classes end up nerfed in PvE as collateral damage from PvP nerfs (or vice versa). The number of PvP buffs versus PvP nerfs were about equal this time around, and we make careful consideration to keep the impact outside of PvP minimal. So, if we nerfed your class’s PvE damage, it’s most likely because we thought your class was doing too much damage in PvE.

No doubt you’ll disagree with some of our logic -- “But we were middle of the pack!” seems to be the common rebuttal these days. Balance is an art, though, not a science. (This topic probably deserves its own blog, but I’ll try to spell it out briefly.)

Balancing a Battleship
Player feedback certainly plays a role in our deciding to make balance changes, but it’s just one small part. (And remember that our public forums are not the only place where players voice their opinions.) We also do a lot of internal testing, both simulations and actual character performance, and we collect a lot of external data, which needs to include players at a wide variety of skill levels.

If a class is performing poorly except in the hands of one percent of the population, that’s a problem, but it’s not an excuse for that class to be overpowered when played by that one percent, especially in PvP. In PvP, your group composition (whether your whole Arena team or just the participants in a given fight in a Battleground) matters enormously. In PvE, the encounter specifics matter enormously (and we’re about to get a new cast of characters in Firelands). As a result, it can be challenging to decide which numbers are the right numbers. It doesn’t make sense to balance PvE damage solely around Patchwerk-style target dummies and assume everything else is a gimmick. Likewise it doesn’t make sense to buff and nerf for each individual encounter. (Say a boss buffs casters -- do you then nerf casters as a consequence?)

Also realize that we don’t believe in the existence of any single thermometer for estimating character performance. By that I mean there is no single relatively-accurate measurement of real and true DPS (or tanking, or healing) upon which most players agree. Everything from simulations to target dummy DPS to Arena comp percentages to the top 100 raid parses all count as pieces of the puzzle, and you really have to consider the totality of all of that information in the proper context.

Resto druids “win” healing meters now in part because their raid cooldown, Tranquility, shows up as healing. Warriors do well on Chimaeron because they take a lot of raid damage. Resto shaman heal well on Chimaeron because everyone is wounded all the time.) Yet once you start eliminating data -- “oh that’s a gimmick fight” or “oh, someone is inflating their meters by attacking an irrelevant target” -- you risk skewing the results.

Statistics is a complex business. That doesn’t mean all of this stuff is inherently unknowable and nobody should bother. It just means you have to be careful; the discussions about these topics are never short and simple. It's wise to be skeptical when anyone attempts to boil down conclusions on class balance to very simple declarations.

Simple Declarations
Having said that, we have a lot of ground to cover below, so some of these notes are going to be very terse by necessity. My apologies in advance.

General
  • We changed the way interrupts interact with spell schools. Our intent when we created dual school spells (like Mind Spike being Frost and Shadow) was to allow players locked out of one school to still have something to cast, and we now have the technology to deliver on that design. However, we maintained the rule that being interrupted while casting a dual-school spell will lock you out of both schools because we didn’t want players to only use those spells as a way of avoiding interruption.
  • We changed all heals to have 200% crits because we wanted to make crit a more attractive stat to healers. Anything random is already at a disadvantage when viewed by a healer, and one point of haste just flat out increased throughput more than a point of crit.
  • We removed the threat caused by buffs or crowd control because we wanted to make communication and coordination easier in dungeons, especially among strangers using Dungeon Finder. We want the challenge of a dungeon encounter to be the encounter mechanics, not marking targets. We also think this change will be a quality of life improvement for tanks, who inherited a lot of the responsibility for explaining fights, marking targets and otherwise setting the pace.
  • We changed the values of Agility for plate-wearers and Strength for leather-wearers to reinforce which type of armor you should be using and so we wouldn’t have to spend diminishing returns trying to balance tanks wearing non-traditional armor sets.

Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We added the cast time to Hungering Cold for PvP reasons. It is one of the most powerful forms of crowd control in the game, especially in Battlegrounds, and yet was impossible to prevent.
  • The nerfs to Obliterate and Howling Blast were made because Frost damage was too high in both PvP and PvE. Note that these values were hotfixed -- you shouldn’t see damage drop further when 4.2 goes live.
  • The Glyph of Dark Succor change was to keep Death Strike from providing so much healing in PvP.
  • The Might of the Frozen Wastes change was a small tweak to help keep one-handed Frost relatively competitive with two-handed style.
  • The Unholy Might buff was to help catch Unholy up to Frost in PvE. Interestingly, we didn’t nerf Unholy damage at all in 4.1, but you can still see a small drop in their DPS because so many talented DKs went Frost. I’d love to have the discussion some time about how close two similar specs need to be before players will play the one that is most fun for them and not the one that does theoretical higher damage. Is it 5%? 1%? 0%?

Druid (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We boosted Feral damage to compensate for their losing the attack power from Strength. Net DPS shouldn’t change much overall, though burst may be slightly higher. (We didn’t want to buff bleeds since that was a problem before in PvP.)
  • We cut back on the power of Innervates from Feral and Balance druids because we felt they were contributing to too much healer mana.
  • We changed several Balance druid mechanics to cut down on the damage they could do while moving in both PvP and PvE and to cut back on some of their strength in multi-dot fights in PvE. Furthermore, we felt like druids were spending too much time at one end or the other of the Eclipse bar by using dots rather than moving the bar back and forth as intended.
  • We toned down bear damage, because they were going to do more DPS than other tanks while tanking. Other changes were made to keep bears from neglecting certain core abilities.
  • We redesigned Restoration’s mastery because it was devalued in situations where druids did a lot of raid healing by HoT-ing different targets, especially in 25-player raids.

Hunter (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • Multi-Shot was doing too much damage in PvE given how simple it was to use.
  • Careful Aim allowed Marskman hunters to do too much damage in PvE raiding, where the 80% health phase could last for a long stretch of time.
  • However, the Careful Aim nerf also affected Survival, whose DPS was fine or even a little low, so we buffed Black Arrow to compensate.

Mage (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We nerfed Arcane Blast because Arcane’s damage was too high in PvE. We wanted Arcane to be competitive with Fire, especially given that Fire tends to perform better on fights with movement or multiple targets. However, it looked like many Fire mages were begrudgingly respeccing to Arcane, which wasn’t the intent. We wanted Arcane to be competitive, not the only serious mage spec for PvE. (See Frost vs. Unholy note above.)
  • We originally tried nerfing Spellsteal’s cooldown, but that made it feel really random (for both sides) since the mage had no control over which spell was stolen. We instead nerfed the mana cost to encourage tactical use of Spellsteal and discourage spamming. We’d still like to try a model where dispels have a long cooldown but remove everything, but that is too big a change for now.
  • We added the diminishing returns to Deep Freeze and Ring of Frost (after earlier trying some different nerfs) to tone down Frost mage control, especially in the mid and lower tiers of PvP when dispels can’t be assured.

Paladin (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We concluded PvE Holy paladins were ending fights with too much mana relative to other healers, so we raised the mana cost of their single-target heals.
  • We tweaked Holy Light because we wanted it to compete a little more with Divine Light, especially when used with Beacon of Light.
  • We buffed Word of Glory for three reasons: We felt Holy Power was mattering less to Holy paladins than it did at Cataclysm launch. We wanted to provide more uninterruptible healing in PvP. We knew Light of Dawn was trumping Word of Glory in almost all cases in 25-player raids.
  • We changed the Denounce mechanic to give Holy paladins slightly more offensive utility in PvP. We felt that ignoring the other healing classes came at some risk which was not the case for paladins.
  • We buffed Holy Radiance both to help PvE paladins feel like they could make larger contributions to raid healing (especially in light of the single-target nerfs) but also as part of a significant buff to Speed of Light to let Holy paladins have more mobility in PvP.
  • We made a tweak to Holy’s mastery to allow its bubble to stack, so it would be wasted less often when healing a single target.
  • We made Selfless Healer, Divine Protection, and Beacon of Light no longer dispellable so that paladins didn’t lose so much of their survivability in PvP to dispels. (At no point in this patch was Avenging Wrath undispellable -- that was a myth.)
  • We redesigned Holy Shield, partially because paladin mitigation was going to be too good in the Firelands raid, but also because many paladins (though of course not all) told us they wanted a more dynamic rotation and less passive mitigation.
  • We buffed Seal of Righteousness to let Retribution use it for AE fights as intended, and also to buff Ret AE damage overall.
  • We made a slight buff to Selfless Healer. While we thought the old model was unbalanced and turned Ret into too much of a healing spec, we heard from a lot of players who liked the utility of being able to help heal somewhat. This talent should provide that trade-off in a more balanced way.

Priest (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • Shadow was doing too much DPS in PvE when multiple DoTs was favored, so we nerfed their DoT damage. We want Shadow to benefit from multi-DoTs, but Shadow’s damage was just too high under those conditions. We buffed Shadow cast-time spells to compensate.
  • We changed the facing requirement of Psychic Horror as a PvP quality of life change to make it consistent with other non-projectile crowd control spells.

Rogue (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We nerfed Cloak of Shadows because it felt like Subtlety rogues could counter both casters and melee specs too easily. This change forces them to choose between Cloak of Shadows and Combat Readiness.
  • However, we wanted to compensate rogues for this PvP nerf, and we concluded rogue damage in PvE was also too low, so we buffed their damage overall.
  • The buff to Hemorrhage was designed to make it less punishing when it wasn’t possible to get behind a target, which often arises in PvP but also sometimes in PvE.

Shaman (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We previously nerfed Water Shield via hotfix because shaman were gaining too much mana in PvP when attacked (especially by pets to discourage drinking). The 4.2 change is just a more elegant implementation of the same nerf that should keep the same mana per time as they have currently.
  • We recognized Fire Nova had some usability issues so we increased its throughput and added the Flame Shock refresh mechanic to help ease some of the inconvenience. This is a new mechanic and one we are still evaluating.
  • We introduced the Glyph of Unleashed Lightning to help shaman feel less punished by movement in both PvP and PvE. The impact of changes like this are very difficult to model.
  • We nerfed Mana Tide for the same reason we nerfed Innervate -- it was just providing too much mana for the group’s healers as a whole. We didn’t want to decrease the benefit to the shaman, so we redesigned / added the talent of Resurgence to help offset the nerf to them personally.

Warlock (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We nerfed the Glyph of Soul Swap to reduce the ease of applying multiple DoTs in PvP.
  • We nerfed Drain Life because Affliction was forsaking Shadowbolt in PvE, which wasn’t intended. We want Drain Life to be for utility, not primarily for damage, and we want all casters to have to hard cast at least some of the time. This was done via hotfix and players won’t see a change in 4.2.

Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
  • We put Deadly Calm and Recklessness on the same cooldown to reduce warrior burst in PvP.
  • We also nerfed Arms and Fury damage across the board because they were doing too much damage in both PvP and PvE. While we are sensitive to casters outperforming melee on several raid encounters, having warriors handily outperform all other melee isn’t the solution to that problem.
  • The stance requirement changes on long cooldowns was a quality of life change.
  • We didn’t want warriors using Charge as a rotational ability on some fights without actually having to move (which was a bug created as a result of a fix put in to help hunter problems with minimum range).

Raid Nerfs
  • As discussed previously, now that players who have spent a lot of time in Throne of the Four Winds, Blackwing Descent, and Bastion of Twilight are moving on to Firelands, we wanted to make sure players who previously couldn’t progress on those raids are now able to experience them. In a way, this provides new content for everyone -- if you’re done with the 4.0 raids, you now have 4.2. If you haven’t seen the 4.0 raids yet, now’s your chance.

As I write this, 4.2 has not been completed, so there is still time for us to make additional changes. Constructive feedback is always welcome. Even the most articulate, logical, and passionate argument won’t always force our hand, but it helps.

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He successfully resisted the urge to bore the other designers with tales of obscure marine fauna for Vashj’ir, though he did suggest the pogonophorans.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Explanation of 4.2 Balance Changes started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 265 Comments
  1. Dawnslayer's Avatar
    If Blizzard are nerfing classes to suit pvp players, why do they even have pvp, pve specific realms, these nerfs should be solely for pvp servers only, leave the pve servers alone, we are the ones who clear the content which in turn gives blizzard reasons to make new areas/expansions. Don't take the fun out of the game. I myself hate the fact that with the pve achievements make you go into a battleground just to complete this quest, i hate pvp i joined a pve server to not pvp now it seems we have to bare the brunt of nerfs to suit players who pvp on pve servers, look after the content clearers imo, leave pvp at the door on pve realms.
  1. Machomaije's Avatar
    Ok, so the thing is this: Death strike realy dont heal to much in PvP atm. The reason of this is that if we spam Death Strike we cant do shit for about 8 sec after that because of the stupid rune generation, and we got no survival abilites without the death strike. We got anti magic shield that is up for some seconds and it doesnt help against melee players. We also have a 20% damage reduction with a WAAAAY to high cd. So when we use Dstrike, we can NOT do any damage to the opponent for 8 seconds, and that makes it kinda useless to use as it doesnt do much damage either. And for the Hungering Cold nerf. Wtf blizzard? What about all the other classes AoE cc? What about warriors shout that fears all the nearest players for the same time as dks Hungering Cold freeze them? Why do we get a 1.5 second casting time and they dont get shit on their AoE cc? Dks are already getting overruned in pvp, and now without the only real survival ability we had, we cant do SHIT to survive anymore. 1.5 sec casting time, ye...... so now we're casters? We dont got any other spells with a casting time, so why would you give us one? Atleast when other classes have the exact same abilitys just in other forms, like warriors shout fear. This is just pathetic. So tell me this blizzard, no when warriors stun us, and takes 50% of our health within 5 seconds, and we aint able to heal up with death strike, or freeze them with Hungering Cold because they can interrupt it or run away, how will we be able to survive? Or when the rogue stuns us and do a insane dps, just as warriors. Or when locks dots us up and kite us, and the one time we get through they fear and got one silly death strike before we get a fear or anything else, will these 7% heals from deathstrike be enough to prevent us from dying? No, it wont. And now this game is starting to getting on my nervs. Blizzard, i tell you this, get_life, get a melee class, and fucking try to beat a lock, mage, warrior or any other class as a DK after the patch. This is pathetic and you need to balance it instead of just nerfing one class to the ground.
  1. Aeilth's Avatar
    Well I hate pve nerfs because of pvp as much as the next person. Personally I refuse to pvp at all anymore due to the effect it has on the game as a whole. What I do like here is an attempt to explain the class balance attempts. All through the 1st tier of Cata blizzard just fed us bullshit or did not even address why certain changes were made. This is at least something and a move in the right direction. I don't give two shits about pvp balance but I think 4.2 will have us closer to being balanced in pve than we have been in a long time. To answer this question, how close two similar specs need to be before players will play the one that is most fun for them and not the one that does theoretical higher damage. Is it 5%? 1%? 0%?I think it needs to be at least 5% or less. I skilled player can make up a 5% difference without a problem. Anything more will have players favoring the more powerful spec. I crave the opportunity to view competition by who is the more skilled player and not who plays the more powerful spec.
  1. fangless's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtabay View Post
    This is bs, how can they justify nerfing S/priests AGAIN, LK we were crap, Cata we werent so bad, now we are going to be crap again!
    Seriously?

    Shadow priests are at the very top of DPS. You honestly cannot be crying.

    The community never fails to astound.
  1. Xtabay's Avatar
    Im guessing your not a s/priest and havent had to go through lk being crap then finally getting somewhere only to end up being back where you were before, and if we are the very top of dps, why am i watching dk's and warriors top the dps charts????
  1. lanceb's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Warrior damage nerfs were overkill. Just fixing the charge bug would have worked for pve. I'm betting a hotfix for arms back up to 20% 2h Spec within 2 weeks.
    dont even see a valid reason at all for a "also nerfed Arms and Fury damage across the board because they were doing too much damage in both PvP and PvE".
    i constant see dk's, rogues and feral droods out dps warrs hard and still we keep getting nerfed to the ground, but i'd guess it's the punishment we get for beeing top of the dps during wrath so the're nerfing the crap out us now.

    ---------- Post added 2011-06-18 at 07:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by slimj091 View Post
    what??? YOU LIE! i suppose by too much damage they meant that we have clawed ourselves up from the bottom of the dps pile to midway up the ladder, and they can't have us being slightly better than enhance shammies, ret paladins, kitty druids, or frost dk's. i mean lord help us if a warrior is viable to bring along on dps. time might start going into reverse as the universe collapses on itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalacia View Post
    I hope you're being sarcastic..
    what he wrote is true tbh, every time since cata when the warr's is climing the dps ladder to almost be on equal terms vs the rest of the melee we get beaten down a few steps with that nerfbat.
    as it is now we are finaly getting closer again and what do we get? a huge nerf all over the board. thnx blizz

    ---------- Post added 2011-06-18 at 08:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by stud3nt View Post
    Nothing about DPS specs of shaman? R u kidding me?
    just wait.. its still just over a week till the patch goes live, they will most likely find something to screw up
  1. meatyhaqz's Avatar
    with the howling blast dmg nerf and the hungering cold cast time implemented i think well be seeing many more pvp frost dks goin unholy, sacraficing the burst for sustained dps and dark trans pet cc. i have a feeling ill be one of em depending how that first couple of arena matches go come season 10. it also feels like they are seperating the 2 specs giving them their own way to shine in both pvp and pve (frost burst dmg vs uh utility and cc). i have a feeling enh shammies will have their day, its jus a broken spec that im sure is taking sometime to figure out how to better implement it w/o compromising balance. with all of these changes im actually eager to see what kinda buff theyll get could make for some interesting and fun arena comps.
  1. Talgmar's Avatar
    They gotta stop nerfing PVP Cause of PVE noobs. Its so annoying. Why the hell do they still keep nerfing FURYwarrior? It sucks in PVP atm. People need to stop putting "warriors" as ONE class (wich is arms). Nerf arms idd. but stay away from fury! btw gg. nerfing Spriests in PVP. (Cause multidotting is the problem). Yeah cause you really can multidot in 2s or 3s. And what dmg is that compared to a afflilock in 3s, armswarrior or spamlancing frostmage.
  1. kidhavok's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    Ok, so the thing is this: Death strike realy dont heal to much in PvP atm. The reason of this is that if we spam Death Strike we cant do shit for about 8 sec after that because of the stupid rune generation, and we got no survival abilites without the death strike. We got anti magic shield that is up for some seconds and it doesnt help against melee players. We also have a 20% damage reduction with a WAAAAY to high cd. So when we use Dstrike, we can NOT do any damage to the opponent for 8 seconds, and that makes it kinda useless to use as it doesnt do much damage either. And for the Hungering Cold nerf. Wtf blizzard? What about all the other classes AoE cc? What about warriors shout that fears all the nearest players for the same time as dks Hungering Cold freeze them? Why do we get a 1.5 second casting time and they dont get shit on their AoE cc? Dks are already getting overruned in pvp, and now without the only real survival ability we had, we cant do SHIT to survive anymore. 1.5 sec casting time, ye...... so now we're casters? We dont got any other spells with a casting time, so why would you give us one? Atleast when other classes have the exact same abilitys just in other forms, like warriors shout fear. This is just pathetic. So tell me this blizzard, no when warriors stun us, and takes 50% of our health within 5 seconds, and we aint able to heal up with death strike, or freeze them with Hungering Cold because they can interrupt it or run away, how will we be able to survive? Or when the rogue stuns us and do a insane dps, just as warriors. Or when locks dots us up and kite us, and the one time we get through they fear and got one silly death strike before we get a fear or anything else, will these 7% heals from deathstrike be enough to prevent us from dying? No, it wont. And now this game is starting to getting on my nervs. Blizzard, i tell you this, get_life, get a melee class, and fucking try to beat a lock, mage, warrior or any other class as a DK after the patch. This is pathetic and you need to balance it instead of just nerfing one class to the ground.
    first off im gonna go ahead and say your qqing for no reason at all. your really bitchin that your class is getting nerfed when it by far is the most op favored class in this game. an how can u bitch that dk's finally get nerfed compare all the nerfs that dk's have gotten to all the ones warriors have gotten an i think you'll see warr's have gotten hit with that nerf bat a lil more than dk's. now as far as your aoe freeze, me myself i dont see a problem with it the way it is now ill give ya that. however you are bitching that you'll get a cast time and you say that your not casters but you bitch that u wont be able to heal yourself as much now. are dk healers? an as far as ranged kiting you its not just dks its all melee. an as far as dk's getting over run in pvp you have to be in a dream world they are everywhere in pvp. so i think you need to do what us other players do when a nerf comes DEAL WITH IT! my warr has been nerf just about ever patch sense i started playing the game and i dont come on the forums qqing all day about omg blizz you suck. suck it up and get better bro. but i will admit your post made me lol alot. have fun in 4.2 brah
  1. mmoc54e96d392e's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnslayer View Post
    If Blizzard are nerfing classes to suit pvp players, why do they even have pvp, pve specific realms, these nerfs should be solely for pvp servers only, leave the pve servers alone, we are the ones who clear the content which in turn gives blizzard reasons to make new areas/expansions. Don't take the fun out of the game. I myself hate the fact that with the pve achievements make you go into a battleground just to complete this quest, i hate pvp i joined a pve server to not pvp now it seems we have to bare the brunt of nerfs to suit players who pvp on pve servers, look after the content clearers imo, leave pvp at the door on pve realms.
    1 word I can say to this:

    AMEN _O_

    PvP should just be banned, or skills should get a different use in PvP then they do in PvE.
    For example the Hungering Cold that is getting a cast time, only for PvP purposes.
    But DKs who are on Kite Duty need that Hungering Cold as a good form of CC to group up everyone before kiting further.
    But because only retards work at Blizzard they only look at the PvP side of a skill and decide: lets just nerf it to hell, fuck the PvE use of it, just NERF it like hell.


    Alot of nerfs which take place in Patch 4.2 are for PvP reasons only.
    But when you nerf a skill for PvP use it gets nerfed also in PvE use and that is the part Blizzard goes totally wrong.
    Favoring PvP over PvE (while all raids and stuff are PvE things).
  1. Buu's Avatar
    We removed the threat caused by buffs or crowd control because we wanted to make communication and coordination easier in dungeons, especially among strangers using Dungeon Finder. We want the challenge of a dungeon encounter to be the encounter mechanics, not marking targets. We also think this change will be a quality of life improvement for tanks, who inherited a lot of the responsibility for explaining fights, marking targets and otherwise setting the pace.
    Great... Making Tanking less nightmarish will be far more efficient than satchels.
  1. AMAN's Avatar
    Armor looks good
  1. mmoc191bbe6bc9's Avatar
    Shadow was doing too much DPS in PvE when multiple DoTs was favored, so we nerfed their DoT damage. We want Shadow to benefit from multi-DoTs, but Shadow’s damage was just too high under those conditions more nerfs to shadow OMG and how about mana cost to spam multi dot..... PLS
  1. Velandyl's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bouli View Post
    1 word I can say to this:

    AMEN _O_

    PvP should just be banned, or skills should get a different use in PvP then they do in PvE.
    For example the Hungering Cold that is getting a cast time, only for PvP purposes.
    But DKs who are on Kite Duty need that Hungering Cold as a good form of CC to group up everyone before kiting further.
    But because only retards work at Blizzard they only look at the PvP side of a skill and decide: lets just nerf it to hell, fuck the PvE use of it, just NERF it like hell.


    Alot of nerfs which take place in Patch 4.2 are for PvP reasons only.
    But when you nerf a skill for PvP use it gets nerfed also in PvE use and that is the part Blizzard goes totally wrong.
    Favoring PvP over PvE (while all raids and stuff are PvE things).
    You're playing a game which has PVE and PVP content.. Handle it ! Even tho that some spells are getting a nerf.. It's a game and it always will remain a game. The fact that you are pissed about something virtual makes it even funnier ! I play Feral & Rogue had some ups and downs with patches and yet I still enjoy this game. Even tho pvp is unbalanced as hell atm.

    Just have fun and stop all the QQ

    Yours,
    Vel,
  1. mmocc009b0becb's Avatar
    I may not agree with some of the changes they made, but I'm glad that they gave a reason for the changes made, it would be nice if they did this for every patch.
  1. wraeth69's Avatar
    Nerfed again....here we goin the whiny little Dev casters start complaining because us Warriors are out-DPS'ng them, so what happens we get fricken nerfed. So then they wonder why more and more people are quiting WoW.....Can't you guys just learn to make a class and leave it fricking alone, if I do more DPS than a Mage or Lock then it means they Suck and I know I to play my class way better. So for once "Pull your Heads Out of Your Fourth Point Of Contact" and think. Enough said I believe, my pressure is up and we all knew they were going to nerf Warriors as it was, these losers can't leave well enough alone.
  1. Studioburst's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bouli View Post
    1 word I can say to this:

    AMEN _O_

    PvP should just be banned, or skills should get a different use in PvP then they do in PvE.
    For example the Hungering Cold that is getting a cast time, only for PvP purposes.
    But DKs who are on Kite Duty need that Hungering Cold as a good form of CC to group up everyone before kiting further.
    But because only retards work at Blizzard they only look at the PvP side of a skill and decide: lets just nerf it to hell, fuck the PvE use of it, just NERF it like hell.


    Alot of nerfs which take place in Patch 4.2 are for PvP reasons only.
    But when you nerf a skill for PvP use it gets nerfed also in PvE use and that is the part Blizzard goes totally wrong.
    Favoring PvP over PvE (while all raids and stuff are PvE things).
    Oh stop crying!

    I play DK as PvP only, couldn't care less for the braindead PvE crew (dont stand in fire and watch recount mk), and firstly, Hungering IS OP and did need a nerf, maybe not a cast time but a long CD perhaps, but I'm gonna live with it and adapt to the changes.

    People banging on about the damage nerf to DK's makes me lol, it's hardly game-breaking, unlike the feral buffs -.-

    However, one class that needs (removing) nerfing are mages. They just simply seem to have way too much CC and escapism skills in comparison to other classes. Get a mage in melee range and he'll blink, death grip him back and he'll block, strangulate the little so & so and he'll kite you around whilst his 3 barriers do all the work (frost against frost ofc) against my diseases, chains are more or less pointless as your still out of melee range due to the constant slowing effect.
  1. Koren's Avatar
    Where are the shadow priests crying in outrage on this? I mean has blizzard not noticed spriest dps at low lvls blows by a crap ton? I mean I know you need balance at 85 but what about the 84 lvls before that? It doesnt make sense when they said "They want you to feel like that specc when you pick it at lvl 10." How is mind flay going to make me feel like a shadow priest? Shadowform would make me feel more like a shadow priest then mind flay. Ive seen multiple spriests in full heirlooms just getting raped in dps from lvl 15 to atleast 40. Granted I dont see too many spriests mainly because its easier just to queue as a healer and be more effective. I dont understand why they needed nerfed? And managing mana at low lvls on a shadow priest is crazy. I know it gets better but still no other dps caster at that lvl burns mana like they do. Why not fix whats broken first? Do they not realize when you cut dps of a spec across the board it effects EVERY level of that class not just high end?

    ---------- Post added 2011-06-27 at 04:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Traps already benefit from AP, spell pen does nothing in pve, and 5% less chance to miss will not buff traps enough to make up for the multi shot nerf.

    Also, I'm quite sure that AoE as a hunter is significantly harder than most other classes. For most casters, its "channel some AoE spell." For melee, its "spam AoE skills x and or y." For hunters, its trap launcher --> explosive trap, target mob in middle of pack (if not in a tight group), 2-3 multi shots, 2 Steady Shots, tab targeting if enemy dies, 2 multi shots, 2 steady shots, repeat. If you think hunters can just brainlessly spam multi shot, you're either doing it wrong or have never played a hunter.
    I think most havent played a hunter. They all just roll with the philosophy of "Huntard."
  1. sparks's Avatar
    do any of them even play the game. Most of this is just nerfing to be nerfing. NO thought at all and I swear nothing from anyone who plays. And more healing nerfs, THAT is nothing but their lame way to make the game harder. HOW ABOUT, thought, planning and testing. OH YEA they don't do that, if its not a 5 minute nerf it doesn't get done.
  1. angusmetal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by wiIdi View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We added the cast time to Hungering Cold for PvP reasons. It is one of the most powerful forms of crowd control in the game, especially in Battlegrounds, and yet was impossible to prevent.
    breaks on damage. Please explain to me why Hungering Cold was perfectly fine in lich king
    I would like to see theyr anwer too about this...

    my question:
    If Hungering Cold was nerfed for pvp reasons....why dont replace Hungering Cold over Pillar of Frost to be mandatory on Howling Blast??
    waiting for ur opnions

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