Firelands Raid 10 vs 25 Comparison
DREAM Paragon posted an interesting comparison of the Firelands Raid 10 and 25-Man fights on their site. This is probably a good read for guilds wondering if it's time to switch to 10-man because things are feeling harder, and all the 10-man raids out there can most likely steal their setup if they feel like they're struggling on something.

Raid Setups @

DREAM Paragon's conclusion on differences between 10-man and 25-Man
It's immediately obvious that there's a much greater degree of clarity and control in the 10-mans. Thinking logically, this should help quite a lot with the learning curve and avoiding mistakes, but that's not really something we could say our little skirmish 'proved' in practice. We already knew what the encounters were about and what the flame to avoid looked like -- relearning to accommodate differences is very different than learning from scratch.

A theme of more significance that you can clearly see in the three harder bosses for this tier is that the dps requirement is much too lenient in 10-man. This means that you don't really have to cut the amount of healers, which ensures relaxed gameplay for the healers while about half of their 25-man brethren are taking beta blockers just to be able to see clearly. The other half is naturally on the bench, sitting out for the extra dps. Perhaps this is a backlash from what we've been hearing about T11, but it really doesn't work as it is.

Proper tuning has repercussions though, since class balance has a huge impact when you're forced into two-heal and solo heal situations. And that's not even a stretch -- don't be surprised if you see a druid solo healing Ragnaros 10 hc before this tier is over. Might or might not happen, but at least it seemed plausible enough. Try doing that with a shaman.

This leads us to the fact that the gap between an optimal setup and the wrong setup seems to be quite a bit larger in 10-man than in 25s. If the encounters are really hard, you'll need a proper setup. Guilds shooting for a world first should always be expected to come up with one, but those below, the ones without alt raids, will be left hanging. If the encounters are tuned for the 'average' setup, guilds who can afford the optimal one will steamroll through them.

If we were really playing 10-man, we *would* have a close to optimal setup. Even right now, scaled down from 25 to 10, we would have about 14 players and 30-ish fully raid-capable characters. The difficulty and tuning we're concerned about is for that scenario, not for the level where you're simply enjoying the game with the hand you've been dealt.

For more information and comparison of 10/25-Man modes for all the bosses, check out the full article on DREAM Paragon's website.

New BlizzCon Site Now Open
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’ve just opened up a brand-new BlizzCon community site for you to find all of the latest BlizzCon news, discussions, and more. Make yourself at home on the new community forums, check out the latest BlizzCon updates, and share news items via Twitter, Facebook, and more. As we get closer to the show, the new BlizzCon site will be your headquarters for panel schedules, lists of activities to look for at the convention, tournament updates, and lots more, so be sure to check in often.

Blog comments, forum posting, and profile management are only available to those with an active StarCraft II or World of Warcraft license.

The Info-Packed Website for the 2011 European Invitational is Now Live!
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
From today, we’ll be supplying you with lots of mouthwatering updates, information and treats on this dedicated event website leading up to the big weekend. Browse the site and discover the free HD live stream, detailed information about the event, and much more.

Get into the right mindset with classic matches and pictures of last year’s event. We’ll continue to add more content over the coming weeks, so by August 6, when the action is about to start, you’ll find everything you need to know about the 2011 Invitational in one place:

  • Tournament information: What is it, when, why, and where? Any more questions?
  • Travel information: Do you want to soak up the atmosphere at the Invitational in person? We’ll tell you how to get there
  • Video playlist: Find classic replays and the newest matches conveniently listed right on the front page
  • Twitter feed: Stay up to date with all Invitational tweets
  • Facebook integration: Like, share and follow the event together with your friends
  • Blog overview: Missed a blog update? See all related articles about the event at a glance

Coming soon:

  • Player profiles: Who will be fighting for glory and prize money?
  • Media section: Browse pictures of past events and watch videos of the matches – stay tuned for current media
  • Brackets: What legendary encounters are you about to witness?
  • Tournament schedule: Know what’s happening when
  • HD live stream: Watch the combatants battling it out live on stage, professionally shoutcasted and broadcast right into your home

So, are you ready for juicy eSports action? Our website will provide you with everything you need to enjoy the 2011 European Invitational in Warsaw, Poland. Make sure to stop by regularly in the coming days to get warmed up for the big showdown!

Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects -- Excerpt Three
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Written by New York Times bestselling author Christie Golden, the new novel Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects is now on store shelves. We're pleased to present a series of three excerpts from the novel for your reading enjoyment.

Read the third excerpt below.

Dark Legacy Comics #298 and Teh Gladiators #256 + #257 are out!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Firelands Raid 10 vs 25 Comparison, BlizzCon Site, European Bnet Invitational, Comics started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 102 Comments
  1. Gilian's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by greyghost View Post
    Before people read into the "10 MAN IZ EZ MOAD", DREAM Paragon made it a point to say that it was only easy if a 10-man raid has the player resources to switch out players for optimal specs/classes for certain fights. Hence why you'll find people on 10-man stuck on Beth'tilac because they have 2 paladin healers.

    Some specs are just outright disadvantaged when it comes to a role in some of these fights, and some can just breeze through it, and a lot of 10-man raiding guilds simply do not have the people to switch out an Arcane Mage for a Hunter, or a Holy Paladin for a resto Druid. Hence, probably why there is a percieved lenient DPS curve for 10-man.

    Gear will fix that.

    They have the same problems in 25 man raids. If you watched their video of Ragnaros or their live stream raid you know they HAVE TO switch classes in and out or they won't kill him.
    There are plenty of 25 man guilds who don't have the resources to switch out their shamans for hardmodes because they are subpar. So tell me what's the difference? (Paragon isn't going to kill Ragnaros, and maybe other bosses, with 2-3 resto shamans either in 25 man at the moment).

    It was stupid to try to make 10 mans equal to 25 mans because it's impossible. It's a totally different scene and it should stay like that and you should just play what you want to play and not complain. I really don't understand why 10 mans MUST HAVE the same gear and achievements as 25 mans. Just accept and agree that they are different raids. If you really have the feeling that you want the gear from 25 mans then you don't like 10 mans enough anyway.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by keLston View Post
    No they're not. Did you even armory the people they use? They average 380-384. So basically if you are at or above the gear level that the bosses are tuned to (for example H Baleroc 10 is tuned for ilvl 380), the boss becomes easier than when you were doing it undergeared when they were trying Heroic 25s.

    And then they have the audacity to cry that 10 mans are easier?

    Surprise! When you are geared for and have the strats for a boss, the boss becomes easier than when you are reconning him undergeared. Holy smokes man, alert the media.

    Another good example of someone ignoring the facts and not even listening properly to what Paragon actually said about this. They didn't "cry" that 10 mans are easier just to annoy you. They tested 10 man hardmodes to see if they should switch to 10 mans. If they were harder they would have because they want to progress on the hardest content there is.

    I am a big enough man to admit it when 10 mans are harder. But from experience and no proof, and now that the best guild in the world has tested it, I really don't think 10 mans are harder or even equal.

    And seriously those few items aren't going to make that much of a difference. And I just watched their live raid and they are still struggling on Ragnaros 25 man with that gear you are talking about.

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-09 at 02:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoncrash View Post
    1 guild in the world not bringing a shammy does not mean every shammy in the world now has to re-roll. They were aiming for a world first kill(which is usually done with gear from the previous tier)so they took a comp that suited them the most.
    It does mean they are very underpowered. The guy that gets interviewed during their live raid also stated that shamans are very very bad and bring nothing to the raid not even one spec. Even after having killed raganaros twice (or more?) on hardmode they still have to kick out their 1 shaman because they otherwise won't be able to kill him.

    It's impossible to tune classes how blizzard wants them to be.
  1. keLston's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    I am a big enough man to admit it when 10 mans are harder. But from experience and no proof, and now that the best guild in the world has tested it, I really don't think 10 mans are harder or even equal.

    And seriously those few items aren't going to make that much of a difference. And I just watched their live raid and they are still struggling on Ragnaros 25 man with that gear you are talking about.
    Which explains why there's only been maybe 2(?) true 10man guilds in the world that has killed heroic Ragnaros 10 while every other H Rags kill was done by a 25 man who could pretend that a 2 frost DK 2 hunter 3 paladin setup was a normal raid group?

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