WoW Lost 300k Subscribers, Patch 4.3 this year, Blizzcon 2011 Tickets, Blue Posts

The subscription loss is not really any big surprise. WoW is no longer ground breaking, and it's just getting old. Every empire falls. Everquest went through the exact same thing, and then WoW came out and basically killed the huge profit margin Sony saw in the game. It's still alive, and still turns a profit, so it'll be around for awhile, but no one would ever believe it's still relevant in the MMO world.The Old Republic has a good chance of being the WoW killer. The conditions are about the same as when WoW came out - 5-7ish year old game, an increasingly bored player base, and a lack of innovation. Which isn't to say there isn't a lack of content, but take raids for example - I can't be the only one who looks at a boss and says 'ok, so this part of the fight works like this boss, with these minor changes', and so on. Things like cross-realm dungeons, and battlegroups haven't helped any either. They've managed to erode the sense of community that a server used to have.It's virtually guaranteed that ToR will have a dramatic effect on WoW. If Bioware delivers a stable and fun game, it'll have a permanent effect on WoW's subscriber base. If they deliver a train wreck, then folks will be back to WoW in a few months time, but right now, the market position is BioWare's to loose.

too little too late (yes inspite 4.3 of it being the "LARGEST patch content") another 300k subs gone says it all. Moral/Lesson of the story kids, don't ever ever ever sell out in your life. And another thing, Cataclysm was doomed from the start with the whole "bring back the way things used to be". what that really says is: we're out of ideas, it's not working anymore, nothing we can do to top that, so lets rehash. I mean how can you remake the past LOL

I think 4.3 will be Deathwing, and after will be war of the ancients as a filler until the next expansion. I think we see a new expansion sooner then expected.

I'll repeat myself as always, but in much simpler terms than I used to, because I hate explaining it to the ignorant people who can't think outside of the box and think WoW the most perfectly developed game ever.

No doubt WoW is good, if that maybe decent, it is decent on many levels for many things -- that is why it attracts so many people, Blizzard makes it that way. However, the game isn't great, its just "meh", it is perhaps entertaining enough to just keep u dumping time into it, but never being truly rattled or inspired say like an Metal Gear Solid Game or even its predecessor Warcraft 3. I never had an awe inspiring moment in WoW. Most people just play WoW BECAUSE of the network effect, it started off huge (for its time) and grew quickly because it was a popular IP (very damn popular) which fed its growth from day 1, a lot of people still play because of the people (guild and friends) not because of the game.

What does this mean? It means that Blizzard as of how it is now, is probably not going to lose or gain people with a few balancing tweaks, and more numbers, numbers and numbers, and making us do the same old roller coaster we did for the last 5+ years. The gameplay is stagnant dull, the AI is rather simple (I call it "dumb") especially the way threat works, boss fights are all just tanks and spanks after I have done them for 6 years, its freaking old.


A lot of people stuck around like me through WotLK, because Blizzard dangled another carrot besides loot -- that they would listen to us (GC was very vocal then, but then became all balance and number oriented and then it got nasty on the forums) and would be bringing some major changes and innovative content in both WotLK and Cataclysm, Especially Cataclsym. To me Cataclysm didn't rock my socks, or anywhere near, was a total let down, a lot of the class revamps sucked, standardized and homogenized BS, they took the wrong route on for most classes, and just made their rotations more complicated, which is still boring to me. Changes like standard hunter pets, lose of the old Ret style, they nerf to the old AoE ways for the most part sucked, dispel system and what classes and roles could do. The problem was just in tuning then, some abilities "OP" or underpowered.

-Regardless, class changes are very minor issue to me still, I am really disgruntled with the content in the game. Why can't they shake things up, over multiple dungeons that vary in sizes from 2-8, whoever the hell they want instead of standardized 5 mans that get boring are some super long small group runs (that have things like 3 day- 1 week lock outs)

-Some real game affecting open world PvE and PvP which is also rewarding to, not just an easy faceroll or simple grind.

-Rid us of random BG and dungeon bonus, and remove or change boring BGs to the PvP player base (if there are any) and create some new BG maps, wouldn't it be nice with like a DoTA style PvP map in WoW? You know some new concepts besides creating a Second AB, though it is a good thing to have more options, BGs should have Catagories like capture the flag (WSG), King of the Hill (EotS and AB, Gilnaes), Conquest/power struggle (AV - please go back to the old one), SotA kind of is whatever u would like to call it, i hate it, but we need more categories (pvp focused) with many maps each.

-Tweak the trinity system, AI, how tanking is or could be down, or allow everybody to tank but "tanking roles are slightly better and merely "slightly worse on dmg no matter what spec, if they can tank as their class. AI like Faction champion bosses would be nice, excluding the ridiculous healers in there that ruined the fun of it, that are more complicated than hit same dude with most armor just because he is "the tank" and ignore everybody else while they boringly stand style and mash a rotation on their keyboard (no more fun than me typing this post here). Give everybody the burden and responsibility of support roles through first aid, BUFF it and bandages (not make is so u can heal entire progressive runs as a first aid player) but as a secondary thing where it isn't 100% healer (i'd like to see amount of healing required in this game cut in half or maybe less, and nerf all heals while giving all heals, temporary buff effects, damaging effects and buffing healing role damage). Also cutting how OP a healer is in PvP teams, vs not having one.

-Shartuul's Transporter and Bash'ir raids, not many people got to see this, many people struggled through (so did I a few times) but we need open world challenging events like this. Look them up if you haven't heard of them, VERY FUN sheeit.


-Give us some real damn lore, where the heck did the cinematic team go, Warcraft 3 still has big ol huge WoW beat on awesome Cinematic count by nearly 3 times as much, don't give me BS that it is hard to introduce, just introduce it somewhere, people will QA it and will know how to deal with it in game, not freaking hard (wrathgate wasn't a failure on any amount) but why not go full CGI or more in game cutscenes like the old Warcraft3, I am almost afraid to say it might be too late, it would've done wonders for the past 5 years of the game to do, which Blizzard didn't.

-Making leveling Raid, challenging content, not for max level, and open group stuff that isn't so scripted or tuned to be played with a certain number, comp and certain way, just to be fun with friends, with a more they merrier attitude.

-Ever look into giving more classes resurrect(even if its just one person every 10 minutes type CD), I mean you see it in other games, why would it hurt here, it just puts lets stress on those who are expected to res or partial wipes?

-1v1? At least vs your own class? Whats the harm in competing against exact same classes for ranks?

-Having things like in game jumps provide new obstacles puzzles and challenges, things on the side of raiding, or in the open world of their own category.

-AoE and hit box centric spells for players and content at hand, why can't it be more reactive and on the fly, especially by players. I would like to see AoEs, cheap easy, maybe more passive (not channeled) and deal some good damage in PvP so there is some stuff to avoid (a bit easy to avoid) and ways to create obstacles and do neat things with. Instead of dismissing them as garbage. We need interesting spells like that, not like warriors or hunters for example (probably every class) that have "different" spells with minor scaling and stat differences but do the exact same thing -- damage, just plain old damage too. When people start playing D3 I doubt people are going to say "omg AoEs are OP single target damage stuff should hit like 6 times harder" I know its different game but my point remains the same, this game could use SOME of that style in it. Things liek cone of cold or dragons breath are good candidates yo know?



Things like this type of thinking or innovation is just not present AT ALL in this game, devs don't give a hint of discussion to it, rather responding to player balance QQ about PvP or raid dps being 3% lower than somebody else. I mean seriously these aren't serious or game breaking/making issues get over it, people that have been playing this game for a long time (I consider 2-3+ years a long time) are going to get bored from the same old stuff, doing things like I merely suggest are just some of possibly many more things Blizzard could do to. Guess what they don't Have to be exactly what I say or as I said it, just suggestions, well thought ones, more than most replies I get. I only talk about them in such ways because I KNOW without a doubt I may not speak for 10+ million people here, but I definitely don't speak for myself, I have talked to many others personally and people I have worked with being one involved in the gaming community as a whole.

Originally Posted by Beyond2

It makes me happy to see more people leaving the game. As sick and twisted as that sounds, maybe blizzard will wake the fuck up and make tier accessible to non-raiders like it was in WotLK. Or at least give casuals something to do with rewards that aren't recolored rehashed shit, while raiders get all the new shinies. The new quest zone was a joke; I saw the rewards, I saw how little they value their casual players. "Just give em recolored rares, they'll eat it up. toss in a recolored mount too for kicks" No thank you blizzard, my money will go elsewhere. Make your game casual friendly like it was in WotLK and we'll talk about me re-subbing. If it takes another 1,100,000 people to leave to make a round two million, I hope blizzard it will get blizzard to fix their shit. I want to play WoW, but not in an environment where I have no hope for obtaining an armor set unless I'm a hardcore raider.

Here's a suggestion for you that might help you cope with WoW as well as help you further in life. Sit down, take a deep breath and say these words out loud: "I'm just a spoiled brat who wants things handed out to him." Better? Now let me elaborate, even though I'm sure that in your long career of QQing, people have already pointed this out to you.

You don't have time to raid, but you want raid gear. You refuse to find time to raid, but you want the best the game has to offer. You want to invest a maximum of 7 hours per week game time in WoW (to run 7 5mans for VPs) and you want the same gear as raiders? That, my dear mental pantient, is a very unhealthy delusion. You share it with about 3 million other spoiled kids who wandered into WoW and figured they can get 90% of top gear even if they have no skill, no dedication and any formidable brain capacity, so you figured you might just as well whine to get the whole 100%. You think you're right, because you see other kids of your stature posting similar threads wherever possible.

Nowhere in life you will get everything for just showing up. Raids take from 3 - 9 hours a week in average and if you can't schedule your life around to put that much time into what is supposed to be your hobby, then just slowly back away before you hurt yourself QQing for stuff you don't deserve or need. If you have time to browse MMO, read forums and whine about how you should get EVERYTHING for doing NOTHING, then you might eventually find the time to get into a raid. I am sure you have 12 alts with 200 days /played on each at least, and this post is nothing but a poor attempt at blackmail, but from what I've seen, it's not kids like you who quit - it's people who took WoW as a hobby, wanted to be good at it, but it ended up being massacred to please whiny babies like you.

Now take your 10/17 TOP OF THE TOP game pieces that are handed out to you for autopiloting through 5mans and quietly GTFO.

Originally Posted by Dominating

that's like saying wow's playerbase of 12 million people is constituted solely of fat, greasy nerds living in their mom's basement

i think 300k people leaving a 7-year-old game is justified considering the core gameplay is getting stale

I agree with this, for the most part. There's a slew of new MMOs coming out this year (with Rift proclaiming that they stole a chunk of those subscriptions, although I see that more than half of their servers are sitting around at 'low' population even during peak hours). Blizzard needs to find a way to cater to more non-raiders to hold up those subscription numbers -- more 5-man dungeons is a good, albeit small, step towards that. Daily quests/questing hubs... they worked 3-4 years ago as 'exciting new non-raid content' (ie, during the Burning Crusade era) but now it's just an assumed chore that everyone undertakes.

In my opinion, Blizzard needs to give people reason to go travel out and about in the rest of Azeroth, in a way that makes them explore and take part in a living environment... something akin to the Undead invasions pre-Vanilla Naxx and pre-WotLK. Make people look at all those zones that just got overhauled in a way that doesn't require people to constantly level alts or achievement grind. Phasing technology demonstrated with this patch (a level 80-81 zone turning into a level 85 playground while on certain quests) could be the groundwork for a longterm solution. Consider it a 3rd teir of endgame content, like Instanced Raiding or Instanced PvP. Then we'll have something.

Originally Posted by drakonblayde

It's virtually guaranteed that ToR will have a dramatic effect on WoW. If Bioware delivers a stable and fun game, it'll have a permanent effect on WoW's subscriber base. If they deliver a train wreck, then folks will be back to WoW in a few months time, but right now, the market position is BioWare's to loose.

While I do see a lot of fanfare and positive reviews for SW:TOR, I've also seen an equal measure of reviews that are warning that the game is structured too similarly to WoW in such a way that the gameplay isn't quite as new and innovative as many would hope. The same could also be said of Rift actually... considering the two level 50's I have sitting in the game, I sorta left it when I realized it'd be "Grind [ heroic dungeons ] which are tuned-for-50 versions of the low-level dungeons, they drop [ justice points ] which you need to get a bunch of to buy [ epics ] so you can begin doing raids" all over again. I also took issue with their sluggish physics engine and uninspired visual style... but that's just me.

Originally Posted by Tokurei

"Gee blizz,, you think maybe I could get a complete tier set including trinkets and a pretty looking weapon? Oh and I don't really want to do any work at all for it. Also the shit you provide me in dungeons looks like shit! I want to be pretty!"I really don't see what else you're complaining about.Although I will admit a return of d sets would be fine. Hell yeah d2.

Pretty much the last line. I still fail to see why the old tier can't simply become dungeon tier. How hard is that?

I play to look like a fantasy hero. If I can't look like a fantasy hero, I won't pay my sub.


Also, "I don't want to work" gets tossed around a lot. A dungeon a day, every single day, for 4 months, IS WORK. Sorry your raider mind can't wrap your head around that, but that's a lot of hours invested, in actuality, far more than you put out in your raids.

I do want to work - I want to do content i have fun playing, not stuff that i hate.

I have always supported Blizzard, even when they lost the 400k(?) subscribers in the first quarter, I said it was just bad timing. I'm not saying wow is dying, all I'm saying is it has definitely lost something, from Wrath to Cata it feels like it is missing something, I have no idea what it is, but it just doesn't feel right. Since about 3 months after Cata was released I've felt burnt out playing wow, I mostly log on to just do raids, then log off. It feels like more of a chore then a hobby, and I think that might be a reason why people have been unsubscribing. Really hope this isn't the beginning of the end.

Originally Posted by Beyond2

Pretty much the last line. I still fail to see why the old tier can't simply become dungeon tier. How hard is that?

I play to look like a fantasy hero. If I can't look like a fantasy hero, I won't pay my sub.


Also, "I don't want to work" gets tossed around a lot. A dungeon a day, every single day, for 4 months, IS WORK. Sorry your raider mind can't wrap your head around that, but that's a lot of hours invested, in actuality, far more than you put out in your raids.

I do want to work - I want to do content i have fun playing, not stuff that i hate.

so get your fantasy low end gear. Don't gripe about not wanting to raid for raid loot. That makes no sense

Originally Posted by jayremy

>Lots of text<

I totally agree with you, the funny thing is you're more or less describing Guild Wars 2, which is why I'm waiting for that game so damn much >_<

Me and my friends are part of that 300k subscriber loss, and the reason is the same, the game is too easy and too boring. I will personally come back to WoW in a heartbeat if they implement the following.

1) Make villages/towns/cities capturable through PvP (excluding starting zones of course) and retakeable also through PvP.

Why? Because it would make both RP and PvP infinitely more interesting and dynamic.

2) Make all named mobs elite and make elites tougher.

Why? Because if something is supposed to be the toughest of the lot, it should be hard to beat, not killable by just pressing an extra one or two buttons.

3) Random powerful elites patrolling every zone except starting zones and villages/towns/cities.

Why? It teaches you to be awake, keeps you on your toes and teaches players the importance of being alert and moving out of the way when something nasty is coming toward them.

4) Bring back questlines such as the Linken one in Un'Goro Crater.

Why? Because quest chains like that, that are just a massive reference to some of the best loved things in pop culture, really add a new shine to WoW and the items you get will be the pride of your collection (My Linken's Sword of Mastery certainly is).

5) Bring back the D1 & D2 sets and maybe add more.

Why? Why not?

6) Change the badge system so you have to farm gear the way you had to in Vanilla and use the badges to buy vanity pets, mounts, specific gear (such as nature resistence or fire damage etc) and so on.

Why? Because the idea of being able to buy the best gear with currency is rediculous, it should all drop from raids like it did in TBC with each tier spread out over several raids.

7) Make the raids harder and take away the PvP drops from the bosses in Baradin Hold and Wintergrasp.

Why? Because both raids and PvP should be hard, they should require enough time and effort that if/when you get that best gear you are truly recognised as one of the best players in the game, not somebodfy who probably beat the raid post-patch and got welfare epics because of it.

so who are in 300k club, i was already 3 months ago

Knowing Blizzard, 4.3 will be in 3-4 months. Meanwhile Trion will push another 2-3 Rift updates which are MONTHLY.Also inc. SWTOR.

Originally Posted by Masternewt

Here's a suggestion for you that might help you cope with WoW as well as help you further in life. Sit down, take a deep breath and say these words out loud: "I'm just a spoiled brat who wants things handed out to him." Better? Now let me elaborate, even though I'm sure that in your long career of QQing, people have already pointed this out to you.

You don't have time to raid, but you want raid gear. You refuse to find time to raid, but you want the best the game has to offer. You want to invest a maximum of 7 hours per week game time in WoW (to run 7 5mans for VPs) and you want the same gear as raiders? That, my dear mental pantient, is a very unhealthy delusion. You share it with about 3 million other spoiled kids who wandered into WoW and figured they can get 90% of top gear even if they have no skill, no dedication and any formidable brain capacity, so you figured you might just as well whine to get the whole 100%. You think you're right, because you see other kids of your stature posting similar threads wherever possible.

Nowhere in life you will get everything for just showing up. Raids take from 3 - 9 hours a week in average and if you can't schedule your life around to put that much time into what is supposed to be your hobby, then just slowly back away before you hurt yourself QQing for stuff you don't deserve or need. If you have time to browse MMO, read forums and whine about how you should get EVERYTHING for doing NOTHING, then you might eventually find the time to get into a raid. I am sure you have 12 alts with 200 days /played on each at least, and this post is nothing but a poor attempt at blackmail, but from what I've seen, it's not kids like you who quit - it's people who took WoW as a hobby, wanted to be good at it, but it ended up being massacred to please whiny babies like you.

Now take your 10/17 TOP OF THE TOP game pieces that are handed out to you for autopiloting through 5mans and quietly GTFO.

See, you think you have this down pat. It has nothing to do with being spoiled. I'm not the child that sits and complains but compliantly takes what is given.

It is BLIZZARD'S JOB to provide a game that the players want to play. In my case, as far as the game is concerned, I want to earn my gear in an environment I find fun. READ MY POSTS before you make inflammatory claims.

In a way, you're right, I don't want to WORK for my gear. I want to PLAY the GAME, in a way I find FUN, and obtain gear as I do. I have fun in five-mans. I do not have fun in raids. I still want to have an armor set to work toward, a milestone to accomplish. This gives me incentive to play, and more importantly and more relevant, incentive to PAY blizzard.

Also, 10/17 of the top of the top pieces? Get the fuck out. The top pieces are heroic items, and those require effort to get. Sorry your normal mode epics don't have the prestige you want, go try heroic if you want your purples to mean something.

And even if I humor your excuse, then why in the FUCK does that justify leaving the token requirements on the helm and shoulders of the old set? That isn't the best of the best anymore, its mediocre. It's old. But it's still locked. Similarly, they won't even make a dungeon set for 5-man players to collect. There's extra colors of the tier in the game files that goes unused; they could turn that into the "current tier 5 man dungeon set" but do they? nope. Not a single bit of incentive for the five man player.

At the end of the day, blizzard refuses to cater to the non-raider, and it's costing them in spades. You can sit on your soap box and call anyone who doesn't want to raid for their loot a whiny, spoiled kid, but in reality, blizzard is going to listen to the lost subs instead of the person calling names.

well, maybe Blizzard will now understand, that rehashed content cant hold players in the game.

Originally Posted by Yollidan

Knowing Blizzard, 4.3 will be in 3-4 months. Meanwhile Trion will push another 2-3 Rift updates which are MONTHLY.Also inc. SWTOR.

It's easy to push out monthly updates when the 'world events' are formulaic and you're pushing out raid content that's been preplanned for over a year.

The grind of rifts and daily quests for tokens to buy vanity gear, vanity pets, titles and stones that make you glow funny from vendors v3.0 to herald a new raid! This is nothing like the Undead invasion or the Earth invasion! Oooo! This is so different from WoW holidays, where I grind tokens from daily quests to buy vanity pets and outfits and titles! Super!

Originally Posted by Beyond2

It is BLIZZARD'S JOB to provide a game that the players want to play. In my case, as far as the game is concerned, I want to earn my gear in an environment I find fun. READ MY POSTS before you make inflammatory claims.

The gear you earn in the environment you find fun -- as you've expressed over and over -- will unfortunately be less powerful than the gear earned in raids, then. Hum diddlededum, dum. The simple fact about Raid gear is that you get better gear the more effort you invest into it. If your effort is going to be spent just doing daily quests or doing heroics over and over, then you're still in the middle of the pack. If you're achieving in the middle of the pack, then you're going to get rewards akin to being in the middle of the pack. If you're able to shoot out 50,000 DPS while elegantly kiting Meteors then you can graduate from the ilvl 365 gear to the ilvl 391.

The unfortunate thing about WotLK's reward system is that they made the mistake of making the final teir of content trivialized and negated the overall achievement of actually making progress in 10-man Icecrown Citadel. A gear game that can be essentially 'won' by repeating low-teir content repeatedly to get high-teir rewards trivializes the game and removes the incentive to actually do content of the game.

That is, if you can get a full set of, say, Teir 14 gear by just doing Heroic Deadmines over and over... you're not going to ever want to do the other 3 raids in the expansion. You're just repeating what is the first month of endgame gameplay as intended by design for 2 years, just to ignore months 2-18 of content. That's not good, innovative gameplay. And game design that allows for it is not good game design.

im part of the first 600k that unsubscribed way back. my main problem( this is my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt) but i just got my self stuck in that rout of sitting in org/SW doing nothing except queuing for dungeons. i could of did other stuff (achievements and the likes) but it just was not entertaining to me. i just could not find my self paying for something im not enjoying anymore.

Guys, don't even try arguing/talking with Beyond2. I'll sum it all up for you: the game isn't exactly the way HE wants it to be, so he's going to complain as loud as he can until he gets what he wants (which is never, so he'll complain forever).

Originally Posted by mtawney1313

And the 3 five mans and raid were garbage.

Garbage ... Icc and it's 3 5 mans were fine, nothing at all wrong with them.

Originally Posted by frott

when they release gimp content that people destroy immediately, they can't seriously think people won't be wondering where the next content is.

4.1 was a non-patch to any raider. No upgrades available = not interested.

I'm so uninterested in it that i don't bother doing even the dailies now to cap valor. who cares? eventually i'll have more valor than i know what to do with, and the worst part is you don't even need full gear to beat the raids. by the time i get to the point that i would have needed it, it'll be nerfed anyway.

they've taken away any requirement for me to worry about flying through content because it is simply so easy to do so. Shrug.

You simply can't hide from the fact that making content more accessible actually loses subscribers faster because there is no prestige or value associated with obtaining items.

when it was *required* that you were 1 out of 40 people in a raid and had to dedicate time to obtaining upgrades, people CARED more. Now they don't, because anyone with any amount of skill can beat the content in last tier's gear. Zzz.

they hand casuals the ability to raid and the casuals ask for "tier loot without raiding."

you can spend less time in firelands than it takes to do a random heroic in a pug and clear a boss or two. on my server they're pugging heroic FL already.



blizz can't win. people whine about content being too inaccessible, so they make it easier and then people whine about there not being enough. Oops, kids clearly have no idea about things like development budgets.

Kind of getting tired of people qq'ing about the game being soo ezmode when the world's top guild said h rag was one of the hardest if not THE hardest boss they have ever had to kill and only 6 guilds have downed him so far