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Originally Posted by Baikalsan

What? Non raiders had nothing to do back then, MC was god aweful, boss mechanics were totally lame back then as well. As a non raider you only a hand ful of dungeons you could do, rep grind was a lot of times useless as well.

If Blizzard would release Vanilla now it would flap hardcore, back then it was the shit but now it is literally shit.

I have a question. Did you start playing WoW when WoTLK came out?

Originally Posted by Baikalsan

What? Non raiders had nothing to do back then, MC was god aweful, boss mechanics were totally lame back then as well. As a non raider you only a hand ful of dungeons you could do, rep grind was a lot of times useless as well.

If Blizzard would release Vanilla now it would flap hardcore, back then it was the shit but now it is literally shit.

I didn't say it was all good. Or that it would be a sustainable model by today's standards.

"Transmogrification was a solution that could be finished in time for Patch 4.3."

This better not mean it's gonna be delayed :< It's these kind of features that keep games envolving, despite the fact that a similar feature exist within other games.

Originally Posted by Delta279

I have a question. Did you start playing WoW when WoTLK came out?

December 2004 on US servers because it wasn't avaiable here in Germany.


Feel free to refute any of my points.

On Mists of Pandaria: "Most of the time when we do anything panda-related it's going to be a comic book or a figurine or something like that."Most of the time Yep, it's the next expansion alright!

Originally Posted by baldoora

Yeah....You know, all the new zones, changes to old zones, the new instances, the new talent trees, a complete reworking for some classes, the change to tanking and healing, new raids...yeah, they didn't really give us anything, what a scam!

Almost a year has passed, after the expansion they did drop the goddamn ball, content stream has slowed down, and quality took a nose dive.

4.1 anyone? 60 new dailies anyone?

Originally Posted by Delta279

I have a question. Did you start playing WoW when WoTLK came out?

I have a question, why are you evading giving proper counter-arguments and rather result to implying that the fellow that gives an opinion opposite to yours started playing at a later date that you claim to have?

Originally Posted by Delta279

I have a question. Did you start playing WoW when WoTLK came out?

Well, i've been playing since vanilla, and he's right, you had Strat, Scholo, Dire maul and UBRS/LBRS (All harder than current heroics, so it was a 50/50 toss-up between wasting your time because nothing useful dropped and wasting your time because the group fell apart halfway through), farming Tyr's hand for something i can't remember anymore, and... well that was it really, aside from some ridiculous rep-grinds of course, it was truly "Raid or die" back then, great for the raiders (proclaiming "I have T2, worship me!" in IF and stuff like that), not so great for the non-raiders.

Saying MC was more than tank 'n spank (With dispel-spam duty for certain classes) would be blatant lying, and the "Warriors only tank, pallies/druids/shaman only heal"-thing back then must have ruffled quite a few feathers back then as well, i agree that if vanilla was released right now as it was back then, we'd have an epic flop on our hands :P

Originally Posted by Revrant

Sigh, no, not at all, guys, people were upset over the low quality of the end game content, not because it was "more" accessible, it was really less accessible, and also less rewarding, reused five man EVERYTHING, crappy looking point gear with much higher grinds, the tier armor being rather bleh this expansion, the much smaller 80-85 experience, the dropping of non-recycled content meant for Vashj'ir replaced with recycled old world junk. B-Team, B for Bad.

exactly what i was thinking, cataclysm is all B team

Originally Posted by Baikalsan

December 2004 on US servers because it wasn't avaiable here in Germany.


Feel free to refute any of my points.

Had a theory about something but I was proven wrong.

You state your opinions and I state mine.

I've only played since BC came out and I don't really have an opinion on Vanilla besides it being Vanilla WoW. I loved BC and always will. Course it suck to many people's eyes but not mine Lol.

Originally Posted by mysticx

Well, i've been playing since vanilla, and he's right, you had Strat, Scholo, Dire maul and UBRS/LBRS (All harder than current heroics, so it was a 50/50 toss-up between wasting your time because nothing useful dropped and wasting your time because the group fell apart halfway through), farming Tyr's hand for something i can't remember anymore, and... well that was it really, aside from some ridiculous rep-grinds of course, it was truly "Raid or die" back then, great for the raiders (proclaiming "I have T2, worship me!" in IF and stuff like that), not so great for the non-raiders.

Saying MC was more than tank 'n spank (With dispel-spam duty for certain classes) would be blatant lying, and the "Warriors only tank, pallies/druids/shaman only heal"-thing back then must have ruffled quite a few feathers back then as well, i agree that if vanilla was released right now as it was back then, we'd have an epic flop on our hands :P

God I remember the IF bridge camping by raiders, some of them stood there for hours (obviously being afk but whatever) and I think this is partly the reason why a lot of people miss those times, they can't be that special anymore in todays WoW.

Originally Posted by baldoora

I have a question, why are you evading giving proper counter-arguments and rather result to implying that the fellow that gives an opinion opposite to yours started playing at a later date that you claim to have?

Why? Simply because I don't have to really. No other way to put it. He has his opinions and I have mine. If I attacked his opinions and I know he will defend it. I would want him to do that or just agree to how I see things. Like "I see what you are saying but etc etc etc..."

Guess we shouldn't be surprised that the final boss of the rehash expansion, is 1 boss encounter spread across locations that already exist in game. No new raid art or mobs.

I hope this means the devs have really been going with it for the next expansion. Either that or they have given up on wow

Originally Posted by Haldy

Guess we shouldn't be surprised that the final boss of the rehash expansion, is 1 boss encounter spread across locations that already exist in game. No new raid art or mobs.

I hope this means the devs have really been going with it for the next expansion. Either that or they have given up on wow

It is anybody guess on what they're going to do for the next expansion.

Originally Posted by errosync

Then you didn't play Wrath at all; like, you literally bought the box/digital copy, installed it and then never signed on. The ONLY good thing that came out of Wrath was Ulduar, that's it. The content was too easy (yes, even the Heroic mode content), the balance was rocky, and to even maintain the bottom level of performance, you had to put in inordinate amount of hours into the game because the content was so easy and the system was so streamlined.

OBVIOUSLY he did play it errosync (hence him expressing his disagreement with it getting slammed), and CLEARLY he liked it. It is not a fact that Ulduar was the best thing that came from Wrath, it is an opinion. I could easily give examples of a lot of other things i thought were great about Wrath. Various features like the looking for dungeon tool have been a godsend for me, I loved some of the shorter/quicker dungeons I could do during my busy week of studying, loved that I could find raid groups easily to experience end-game if I couldn't match a guild's raid schedule, loved the smoother questing experience in... oh wait... maybe I shouldn't because that would make me an idiot wouldn't it? People like me are clearly stupid for enjoying what you didn't and if I say more of what I like about Wrath you might inform everybody here that I didn't play it; like I literally bought the box/digital copy, installed it and then never signed on.

Originally Posted by errosync

Tons of people keep trying to polish Wrath up and make it sound like it was fun-party-times, but polishing a flaming turd doesn't stop it from being a flaming turd.

Yep. Tons of people seemed to enjoy it. Sorry that makes you so furious but, unfortunately, the entire playerbase doesn't always agree with your personal beliefs and claims. It totally sucks, I know.

Love that you then went on to praise the class balance of Cataclysm and more or less call the person you quoted an idiot for not seeing it your way.

Stay classy.

People quit because raids were too easy... rofl? I was leading one of the biggest guilds on my server and they couldn't do shit in the new cata raids. Most people leveled characters to 85 and pvp or just rerolled, some tried to switch to "raiding" guilds but eventually left them as well. Blizz wanted people to think the raids were accessible by everyone that is true. The truth is they were just as hard as ever, nothing really changed. You can't just pick up 10 random people and head off to a raid and expect to defeat it in WoW. It just doesn't work. It's a flaw in the game. I got the impression content was to be played by everyone not just the "elite". Wasn't that the whole damn reason they added "heroic" modes to begin with? No. Apparently not. People leave because WoW is no longer unique and stands out. Nothing has truly changed over the years and people are catching on. At first most people just played WoW because it was unique and a breeze of fresh wind in the mmo genre. Right now it's the same old crap everyone else does. They are adding nothing new. They are doing what mmo's did long before WoW, they catered to the "elite" players. What do you think gonna happen when a game comes along like WoW did and rattle the cage - showing that content should be accessible to everyone playing, not just the self-proclaimed "elite"? The only thing that makes the "elite" stand out is the amount of time they spend playing the game. Not all of us have this "time" to spend on a silly game. We have other games to play that offer far more joy for time invested.

<edit> Wow... this site really blows my mind. I had everything lined up properly and now it's just a wall of text. Good job. It's like just like WoW! Huge expectations and massive fail.

Originally Posted by Delta279

I just don't like to be attacked or being the one attacking because of either me or someone else stating an opinion.

Originally Posted by Delta279

I have a question. Did you start playing WoW when WoTLK came out?

Well, when your answer to someones argument is a thinly veiled "insult" it gives quite bad impression doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Delta279

Also to the person stating that I should try doing a counter-argument about how long I've been playing, I don't have to.

And here we go with a classic example of trying to mislead the "outsider who arrives to the scene" as it is commonly known to those who understand the basics of debating. Basically what it does is turn a claim of subject A into B instead and attempts to make it look like if the one providing the claim is making unbased accusations. What my claim was that rather than making a proper counter-argumentation you resorted into simply trying to antagonize the fellow that made the original claim and skip over his arguments and had nothign to do with how long you have been playing

Originally Posted by Nesingwary-Eliada

OBVIOUSLY he did play it errosync (hence him expressing his disagreement with it getting slammed), and CLEARLY he liked it. It is not a fact that Ulduar was the best thing that came from Wrath, its an opinion. I could easily give examples of a lot of other things i thought were great about Wrath. Various features like the looking for dungeon tool have been a godsend for me, I loved some of the shorter/quicker dungeons I could do during my busy week of studying, loved that I could find raid groups easily to experience end-game if I couldn't match my guild's raid schedule, loved the smoother questing experience in... oh wait... maybe I shouldn't because that would make me an idiot wouldn't it? People like me are clearly stupid for enjoying what you didn't and if I say more of what I like about Wrath you might inform everybody here that I didn't play it; like I literally bought the box/digital copy, installed it and then never signed on.



Yep. Tons of people seemed to enjoy it. Sorry that makes you so furious but, unfortunately, the entire playerbase doesn't always agree with your personal beliefs and claims. It totally sucks, I know.

Love that you then went on to praise the class balance of Cataclysm and more or less call the person you quoted an idiot for not seeing it your way.

Stay classy.

There was a lot of things that was good about Wrath but yet there was a lot of bad things about it too. I don't rub up saying BC was the best and WoTLK is total shit compared to it. LK had more lore into it than BC did because Draenei was pretty much a last minute guess for alliance's new race. Many view it that way.

This will always be the case In Wotlk people cried about how terrible it was and how TBC was better - Nostalgia makes everything look better In Cata people complain about how terrible it is an how Wotlk was better Wotlk had more updates but less quality... Naxx, ToC, 1boss raids. The only thing that was ever any good was Ulduar in Wotlk. I prefer Quality over Quantity content.

Originally Posted by huldu

People quit because raids were too easy... rofl? I was leading one of the biggest guilds on my server and they couldn't do shit in the new cata raids. Most people leveled characters to 85 and pvp or just rerolled, some tried to switch to "raiding" guilds but eventually left them as well. Blizz wanted people to think the raids were accessible by everyone that is true. The truth is they were just as hard as ever, nothing really changed. You can't just pick up 10 random people and head off to a raid and expect to defeat it in WoW. It just doesn't work. It's a flaw in the game. I got the impression content was to be played by everyone not just the "elite". Wasn't that the whole damn reason they added "heroic" modes to begin with? No. Apparently not. People leave because WoW is no longer unique and stands out. Nothing has truly changed over the years and people are catching on. At first most people just played WoW because it was unique and a breeze of fresh wind in the mmo genre. Right now it's the same old crap everyone else does. They are adding nothing new. They are doing what mmo's did long before WoW, they catered to the "elite" players. What do you think gonna happen when a game comes along like WoW did and rattle the cage - showing that content should be accessible to everyone playing, not just the self-proclaimed "elite"? The only thing that makes the "elite" stand out is the amount of time they spend playing the game. Not all of us have this "time" to spend on a silly game. We have other games to play that offer far more joy for time invested.
<edit> Wow... this site really blows my mind. I had everything lined up properly and now it's just a wall of text. Good job. It's like just like WoW! Huge expectations and massive fail.

Accessible =/= easy. Accessible basically means => You don't have to farm for flasks,consumables,res gear etc for weeks before being "ready for raiding".
"nothing really changed" this is factually wrong, if you compare to vanilla and tbc worlds changed.
"You can't just pick up 10 random people and head off to a raid and expect to defeat it in WoW" You can't expect to do this anywhere. You have to build a relationship with people, make them special to you. PuGs are not fit to run raids imo. There's no fun attached to them, why would you play with bots? Plus, you cannot pick 10 random people because half will be terrible, since the game does not encourage people to improve and step up their game, and does a terrible job at that during levelling, which is easy ( easy =/= fast, something can be fast but hard at the same time, we are not arguing about time here).
The whole raid = elite thing is just a myth come on(if you say that you never experienced vanilla, or heard the stories about Everquest), everyone can raid if they have a pair of nights to spare. Or even afternoons. You just need to play with the right people, with your friends. Only this way you will really enjoy the content. And it will last longer too.

If you don't have that much ( read little) ammount of time, you might consider playing another game. I don't mean to be offensive, but you guys have to realize that mmrpgs require timesinks along the way, and revolve around the carrot on a stick concept(you get fun eventually, but not now basically), it's in the genre description, it cannot be helped. It would be like "liking the rts genre but hating the isometric pow".

Wow is suffering from the lazyness of its developers atm. They are slacking.