Firelands Raid Changes Incoming

Originally Posted by Marshie

I dont like the nerfs coming. I wish real life was like that thought. College too hard? Let's lower the standars so everybody feels equal and everybody gets at least a B+. Job is too hard? Let's lower the job requierements there too so nobody feels like a retard. Blizzard is now like elementary school, everybody gets a little something for trying even if you suck at it, because the important thing is that nobody feels left out, right?

People have the right to be unhappy, stop giving reasons to defend this. If you buy a ps3 game and you cant complete it because its too hard, are you going to say you deserve an easier copy of the game so you can feel just as good as the players who have no trouble finishing it? Do you expect that? If you want the game to be easier because you don't have time to do it thats one thing, but pretending that it is the right way to go isn't. There are plenty of guilds that raid 2 to 3 times a week only and they get plenty done.

Also, a little word for the people who think the people in 6/7h + guilds have no life. Thats not true. I'm sure there are plenty of them who actually play less time then the retards who can't get anything done because they are just better at the game then you. If you can't do it, it's your problem.

Except there's a fucking time limit to do it, it's not like the opportunity was never fucking there. That's like me saying oh hey SWP is nerfed from it's state it was when it was first released 3 years ago so I'm going to fucking complain because I wasn't able to complete it in the time it was unnerfed even though I had to pay for TBC in order to also play wotlk and cata.

There's a time frame for you to do it at it's peak and if you can't well that sucks for you. The times are a-changin.

Originally Posted by ButterToast

has nothing to do with nerfs in game
Because its so hard to go to the menu screen and select Easy Mode right ?

I'm sure even on easy mode some people have a hard time, like in wow.

Originally Posted by Marshie

I'm sure even on easy mode some people have a hard time, like in wow.

Name a game :P

Edit: and since this thread is about PvE and you mentioned the PS3, im sure u meant Singleplayer campaign/story modes.

Those modes need ONE person's effort, so its up to YOU to finish this game and learn, you wont need to rely on 9 or 24 other people to get it done and fail at it because 1 or 2 people messed up. so "Progression" on the PS3 is far easier and faster than progression on an MMO.

Originally Posted by Alyssa

To be honest I don't think that many are unsatisfied with how it's tuned atm, sure some nerfs in normal to allow basically everyone to see the content might be needed, I personally have a hard time seeing why but It's not like I have an issue with that being the case. I have raided since vanilla with a wide variety of people and in various skill levels guild wise ranging from casual avg players to realm first progression guild, and I hardly ever heard anyone complain that they didn't get to see the content, and especially not after normal and heroic modes was introduced as it allowed everyone to see the content, what I have heard a lot of complaints about though is nerfs like this and lack of challenges to strive for in game when things have been made to easy.

We as humans are inventive and hard working but only if we want or have to, this is where Blizzard needs to push us to strive for personal or group achievement, not help us be lazy which we are more then happy to be if allowed, this is why I'm fairly sure most guilds in the middle of progression pack currently on one or a few heroic kills are fairly happy working on more kills without nerfs and not really bothered if they clear heroic or not before next patch, happy if they do but not fuzzed if they don't. So I agree they can't cater to everyone but think they cater to people who didn't really ask for it and that would have been happy either way, at the expense of people that don't want the change.

With half as many raiders actually raiding how can you think that there aren't many unsatisfied with the current difficulty? No offense, but your perspective and how your friends view the game is very different from the average player so you shouldn't consider it as though it is.

This game is about entertainment, not difficulty. They've been pushing that for the past 3 years and it should come as no surprise when they do something like this. And again, when 30,000 fewer guilds are doing the most current content in this expansion it's obvious why they're making these changes. Just because those people don't outright ask for it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Neat, when looking for raid comes out I'll have a eazy fireland raid lol

Originally Posted by ElAmigo

There's a time frame for you to do it at it's peak and if you can't well that sucks for you. The times are a-changin.

That time frame seems to be shrinking from 8 months to 3 months now, will you be as happy with the ends result which is raid tier = 4-5months * 3 = 12-15months per expansion , hell perhaps even less at the rate they are going, an expansion a year perhaps, that you have to pay for on top of your sub.

Wake up people and start demanding more content for you money, not less which a lot are defending and arguing for.

Attention attention be sure to get your Rag kills in before this massive nerf.

Originally Posted by ndrew

Why put forth all your effort into raiding when all you have to do is wait for the next tier to come out and bam everything is easier?

This argument for anti-nerf is always so terrible.

Why put forth all your effort into raiding because when the next Xpac comes out it'll be easy?

Are vanilla raids still hard? No, and it's not because of nerfs. It's because of levels. Raids will inevitably become easier, either by nerfs, outgearing, or gaining more levels. There's no way to argue against it. The only question is "how soon is okay" not "should it happen".

Originally Posted by sicness

With half as many raiders actually raiding how can you think that there aren't many unsatisfied with the current difficulty? No offense, but your perspective and how your friends view the game is very different from the average player so you shouldn't consider it as though it is.

This game is about entertainment, not difficulty. They've been pushing that for the past 3 years and it should come as no surprise when they do something like this. And again, when 30,000 fewer guilds are doing the most current content in this expansion it's obvious why they're making these changes. Just because those people don't outright ask for it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

But you, and many others, are still completely missing the point. Absolutely fine, those that want to see the content and for whatever reason can't/won't manage heroic - go do normal. Blizzard can nerf normal as much as they like - the difficulty of the content is somewhat irrelevant on normal at this level of discussion; it's designed to be accessible and interesting - neither of which difficulty necessitates.

However heroic should not be nerfed, because that was never the intent of heroic difficulty in the first place. Heroic difficulty was put in to accomodate more "hardcore" (I use the word lightly) raiders who wanted a challenge, whilst those that didn't/ couldn't would go do normal, and Blizzard could nerf accordingly to ensure the biggest audience is raiding.

This is the point you're missing. The simple fact is that heroic was never meant to be there for everyone to raid. That's what normal is for. This nerf is a complete and utter disregard for a lot of guilds that want a challenge. For many, difficulty is entertainment - I'm one of those.

Originally Posted by Alyssa

That time frame seems to be shrinking from 8 months to 3 months now, will you be as happy with the ends result which is raid tier = 4-5months * 3 = 12-15months per expansion , hell perhaps even less at the rate they are going, an expansion a year perhaps, that you have to pay for on top of your sub.

Wake up people and start demanding more content for you money, not less which a lot are defending and arguing for.

That should be expected when you have less raid bosses to down shouldn't it? If anything this shows they're trying to increase the amount of content, not cut back on it. They wouldn't nerf content they want to prolong.

I think blizzard should actually make an official poll to see if people think nerfs should be made before they do them...

I love the fact that they are doing this. But it's kind of funny to see all of the reactions. I'm not surprised people are mad about this, but lets realize a few things..
1. If you haven't cleared all the heroic/normal content at this point, then you have no one to blame but yourselves. You need the nerf, because in blizzards eyes, you aren't progressing fast enough.

2. I hope that they do this in every content patch, I don't see why "hardcores" would be so against this. It would add an extra challenge to raiding. What would be the extra challenge? Beat the current content in HM before the nerfs. Not only would it be challenging to get the bosses down, but now you have to race against time as well adding in another challenging factor. Surprising all of these people who want a "challenge" fail to reailze this.

Originally Posted by sicness

Increasingly losing? Throughout WotLK they steadily gained subscriptions and then in Cataclysm they started losing them. Hinting at Cataclysm's raiding difficulty being an obvious issue considering half as many people are actually raiding currently because of it.

Easy is an opinion and has many perspectives, to think otherwise is ignorant. While you or I may find the majority of the game very easy, the majority of players playing the game don't at all. If the game has become too easy for your taste you're much better off playing something else than expecting this game to increase it's difficulty to make you happy, as that likely won't happen.

Some of you guys really need to look outside your own personal views and realize why they make the changes that they make. While it may upset you it's overall for the better of THEIR game. If you disagree with the direction of it you're better off looking elsewhere for entertainment than simply complaining here that solves absolutely nothing.

hard is also about perspective. wrath gained sub steadily, yes but wrath was not the time to its greatest growth, bc going into wrath was. problem is not just about the changes but the changes happening too early. also with the degree, no matter whatever nerfs you should not be able to ignore the mechanics. not to mention, now even bads will get the same gears as the good ones in one patch, not the patch after where it becomes irrelevent.

I haven't done PvE since the Lich King (and not "hardcore" since Ulduar), so I don't really have a horse in this race, BUT... It's interesting to see such a clear statement of their intent to nerf the world down to the players' level. Forget the "lowest common denominator" and "elitist" arguments, I'm just talking about a basic premise of RPGs: the enemy is as strong as he is, and in order to defeat him players must strive to improve their characters (and/or their own gameplay.) Whatever happened to that?

Its because I dont want scrubs to have done the same thing as me if I am better. People get satisfaction from being better at things they put effort into.

I don't really have an issue with them nerfing normal modes, as if Blizzard thinks not enough players are seeing content, then not enough players are seeing content.

But to nerf heroic modes at least in my opinion seems to be taking it too far.
While I may not be 6/7 or 7/7 HM, the only reason I play is to progress and see myself and my guildies become better players after every attempt until we are finally able to kill the boss.

Lets be honest, normal modes in firelands are fucking easy and most decent guilds were able to clear it in a week.
Hard modes is where the real challenge began, and killing a new boss actually feels like progression.

I dont care what they do to normal modes, as I do not play this game to kill easy bosses and collect loot. Hard modes were supposed to be the place where guilds and players were truly able to test their skills, and now they are nerfing those. I've already killed Ragnaros, I don't care about killing heroic Ragnaros. I just care about being good enough to be able to fight heroic Ragnaros.

Originally Posted by sicness

With half as many raiders actually raiding how can you think that there aren't many unsatisfied with the current difficulty? No offense, but your perspective and how your friends view the game is very different from the average player so you shouldn't consider it as though it is.

This game is about entertainment, not difficulty. They've been pushing that for the past 3 years and it should come as no surprise when they do something like this. And again, when 30,000 fewer guilds are doing the most current content in this expansion it's obvious why they're making these changes. Just because those people don't outright ask for it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

A summer raid tier with the huge change to 10/25 man raiding, on my realm there is only two fully functioning 25man guilds left and they none of them are doing well from what I know, I used to be in one of them and one major reason people quit raiding was the lack of motivation to do it any more due to the fact that it would simply be made easier over time and every tier is a full gear reset in it self.

The decline in raiding has lots of reasons, personally I doubt heroic raids being hard is one of them and until proven otherwise I'll stick to what I know people for a fact has said to be there reasons.

Originally Posted by Nisala

But you, and many others, are still completely missing the point. Absolutely fine, those that want to see the content and for whatever reason can't/won't manage heroic - go do normal. Blizzard can nerf normal as much as they like - the difficulty of the content is somewhat irrelevant on normal at this level of discussion; it's designed to be accessible and interesting - neither of which difficulty necessitates.

However heroic should not be nerfed, because that was never the intent of heroic difficulty in the first place. Heroic difficulty was put in to accomodate more "hardcore" (I use the word lightly) raiders who wanted a challenge, whilst those that didn't/ couldn't would go do normal, and Blizzard could nerf accordingly to ensure the biggest audience is raiding.

This is the point you're missing. The simple fact is that heroic was never meant to be there for everyone to raid. That's what normal is for. This nerf is a complete and utter disregard for a lot of guilds that want a challenge. For many, difficulty is entertainment - I'm one of those.

The difference here however is they're doing it well before the release of the next patch. I think their reasoning for including heroic modes is so that people who are currently stuck on progression, which most guilds will be at this point, can still progress further if they desire with the heroic mode nerfs and not simply be stuck once they're 7/7 for instance. Hell, we don't even know to the extent they intend to nerf heroic modes, so all of this is purely conjecture and could end up being completely meaningless whining.

What some of you are seriously taking out of context is that heroic modes are only for you, when that's not necessarily the case and you shouldn't judge your enjoyment of the game on that. I mean do you seriously care that someone will be able to clear say 6/7 heroic modes after the nerfs are at 30% while you managed to do them well before the nerfs? Why does it matter?

Shitstorm incoming. Blizzard Bomb Shleter.

Originally Posted by Drone91

I love the fact that they are doing this. But it's kind of funny to see all of the reactions. I'm not surprised people are mad about this, but lets realize a few things..
1. If you haven't cleared all the heroic/normal content at this point, then you have no one to blame but yourselves. You need the nerf, because in blizzards eyes, you aren't progressing fast enough.

2. I hope that they do this in every content patch, I don't see why "hardcores" would be so against this. It would add an extra challenge to raiding. What would be the extra challenge? Beat the current content in HM before the nerfs. Not only would it be challenging to get the bosses down, but now you have to race against time as well adding in another challenging factor. Surprising all of these people who want a "challenge" fail to reailze this.

time should not be the challange, raid bosses should be. also, people need nerfs when bosses abilities prevent them to progress,not because they raid casually. no one should be able to nerf raids down, just becasue they raid two days a week.

it also matters because easy mode players will rewarded just the same as the players who done it in regular mode in a same patch.