Firelands Raid Changes Incoming

Originally Posted by PolleDK

I didn't miss your point at all. I was commenting on your argument of "we pay the same" as an excuse for nerfing a raid.

As stated in the end of my post, I'm neither for, nor against a nerf.

You did miss my point, completely...for a second time!

They're nerfing the content months after it was introduced, spending more time in WoW (Being lucky to find a decent guild, etc) has given people a headstart in firelands, the best have cleared it and the rest were well..not good enough to clear it in time, now the rest of the community can see the content...we pay the same monthly fee so why should that deny us the oppertunity to see the content months after it was released, when it's soon to be redundant.

Originally Posted by VanishO2

Because 2 months = 6 months and everyone was expecting the end of patch nerf to hit 4 months earlier, right? RIGHT? What's next? Nerfing it as soon as Paragon kills Deathwing, because you had 2 weeks to do it, and if you didn't, no matter what, you won't after 6 months of farming 391+ gear? LOL.

Lol, Blizzard, nerf Math too, please!

Dude, they had to nerf Ragnaros already before there was even a world first kill. So you don't even know what you're talking about. They want people to be at a higher average ilevel when 4.3 comes out so that more than 37.5% of the player base has an opportunity to kill Deathwing on normal mode.

Too bad Heroic Rag is killable with less than ilvl 391 average, because gear=skill amirite? If they didn't nerf Rag and you farmed for 6 months and managed to kill Rag the day before 4.3 came out, you must suck really bad because you had to outgear the encounter before you could down it.

Originally Posted by Granyala

No it's not. It's about being LUCKY in finding a STABLE Guild that has at least 24 other likely skilled people. THAT's the difficulty of the content, not the bosses themselves. And please don't start with 10mans.... they're just not the same.

yeah allmost everything is easyer @ 25 man..setup get legendary..couple guys can be afk while u kill boss try that at 10 man..or try 1-2 healer shammy 10 man no problem when 25 man...

Originally Posted by TinySlayer

This seems to soon, are they just going to rush the expansion so they can meet their deadline of first quarter next year?

They are rushing the expansion because this expansion failed after the great sucess of Wrath. People keep unsubscribing, they need to get over this and bring the next one so they can get their subs up (they always go up with new expansions).

People here might not like it, but Wrath was the most sucessfull expansion in the game, and this is the frist expansion that lost millons of subscriptions.

I do think its unnecesary to nerf heroic content though (i guess this have to do with the legendary), but i dont play anymore so i dont care much.

Originally Posted by Lalonna

I dont really see why people are starting to act like this is a bad thing. Maybe those who are close to an kill of HC Ragnaros will not be so happy about this, and that's understandable. But for others, how can you even have the balls to start blaming blizzard for this? Are you not raiding to see all the encounters, kill them and move on? Are you ready to stand with your guild, bashing your head into a wall which your guild can not defeat? I am in a casual guild raiding guild with 7/7 on normal and i want to see as much as possible of the heroic encounters before 4.3 so i'm happy about about these nerfs. Yes, it would be fun to clear everything before nerfs, but my main reason why i play this game is not to be stuck on the same place forever. I wanna move on in raids, see as much as possible and try as much as possible as soon as possible and not several tiers / expansions later.

good stuff good stuff!

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

No, they look at the data and see that 23.75% of all guilds are stuck at 6/7 normal after 61.31% of all guilds were able to down Majordomo and only 9.9% of all guilds are 3/7 heroic or higher. 61% of the playerbase isn't able to complete Firelands on normal mode.

Sure, and you also have the data too, lol.

Sorry bro, but even Blizzard alread slipped that they have a ton of players (almost half playerbase) that don't care to raid and they "want" them to raid. Nobody would base numbers on fansites where you do upload your progress or simply not.

Why they "want" these players raiding? Because players that don't raid, usually only do PvP. And guess what? Looks like wow pvp kinda of suck and is stale and pvp players aren't well known for waiting that long for changes. So they leave as soon as a new game offers what they want, unlike the usual PvE player. "No! don't leave, we have this raids for you to do while you're bored with pvp! Please, need your money! Look, you don't have to bother with boss mechanics, dps, healing, timers, we changed it for you!!!". That's it.

Should be implemented when 4.3. starts, imo.
Doesn't really matter if it's normal and heroic to me, but it shouldn't be nerfed by ~20% (if it's like BWD / BOT / TOT4W) while it's still in progress.

Originally Posted by Torticoli

... And said hard bosses are nerfed, thus ruining the entire point of the difficulty curve. It's not a difficulty curve if you can just wait the challenge out instead of actually overcoming it.

It actually is, because said content which is nerfed is now redundant.

are they nerfing 6 hms or they are nerfing rag even more? can someone confirm this?

i dont even

Originally Posted by VanishO2

Sure, and you also have the data too, lol.

Sorry bro, but even Blizzard alread slipped that they have a ton of players (almost half playerbase) that don't care to raid and they "want" them to raid. Nobody would base numbers on fansites where you do upload your progress or simply not.

Why they "want" these players raiding? Because players that don't raid, usually only do PvP. And guess what? Looks like wow pvp kinda of suck and is stale and pvp players aren't well known for waiting that long for changes. So they leave as soon as a new game offers what they want, unlike the usual PvE player. "No! don't leave, we have this raids for you to do while you're bored with pvp! Please, need your money! Look, you don't have to bother with boss mechanics, dps, healing, timers, we changed it for you!!!". That's it.

WoWprogress checks by achievements. It's not an estimated percentage, it's an exact percentage. If you don't raid, you're not counted. It's simply the raiding population, whether better or worse players don't raid is irrelevant.

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 11:51 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Kaidog

are they nerfing 6 hms or they are nerfing rag even more? can someone confirm this?

They're nerfing everything across the board according to the blue post. Normal and heroic.

Bleh I come from a 6/7N guild and the feelings across the board is negative. We enjoy the challenge at the current difficulty. Im a bit disappointed that this nerf is coming before the new content even comes out.

Originally Posted by Crashdummy

They are rushing the expansion because this expansion failed after the great sucess of Wrath. People keep unsubscribing, they need to get over this and bring the next one so they can get their subs up (they always go up with new expansions).

People here might not like it, but Wrath was the most sucessfull expansion in the game, and this is the frist expansion that lost millons of subscriptions.

I do think its unnecesary to nerf heroic content though (i guess this have to do with the legendary), but i dont play anymore so i dont care much.

If we get a wrath modeled expansion again, Blizzard will end up losing subscriptions anyway. It may be a smaller percentage of the player base, but there's (at lack of a better term) hardcore people out there who wont have that shit again (for a lot of us it was that).

Wrath was successful because it brought access and in many cases it ended up turning things easier, which is perfect for those who argue that they "have a life" (even though thats the most ridiculous arguement ever).

oh noes instead of 1% causals 4% causals will be able to raid firelands

Originally Posted by Torticoli

... And said hard bosses are nerfed, thus ruining the entire point of the difficulty curve. It's not a difficulty curve if you can just wait the challenge out instead of actually overcoming it.

When they destroyed the dificulty curve by nerfing the hell out of heroics, they've created this problem for raids. Instead of players going questing > normal dungeon > heroic dungeon > normal raid > heroic raid, they went "questnormalroic" dungeon > wall > normal raid > heroic raid.

They had to lower normal dificulty, and with that, kind obvious, push the wall further to normal raid > wall > heroic raid. Now they need to push it more because they're loosing more bad player subs than they are loosing normal/good players for now.

When they reach the point where they loose more normal/good players subs than bad player subs, like middle/end or WotLK, they will think about going back on these decisions. The problem is that "Cataclysm launch" tactict probably won't work twice and those lost subs will still be lost and one of the new games comming out at the same time.

Hard game is hard...

I'm confused. I thought the whole point of normal and heroic mode was that everyone could at least SEE the content, while giving hardcore raiders something decent to go up against. Don't see why the HC nerf is needed, I'd just have nerfed normal mode, to allow everyone to see it.

No, blizz. Please. Don't. Don't do it, please?

Hey guys, news flash. No one got an unnerfed Heroic Ragnaros kill.

Originally Posted by Kaeleena

WoWprogress checks by achievements. It's not an estimated percentage, it's an exact percentage. If you don't raid, you're not counted. It's simply the raiding population, whether better or worse players don't raid is irrelevant.

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 11:51 AM ----------

They're nerfing everything across the board according to the blue post. Normal and heroic.

You forget about the guilds that aren't listed and non guild groups though. So wowprogress isn't a complete list of people raiding. That's why blizzard logs are far more accurate.