Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology

I find all the white knights on this board hilarious. Most of you have never and will never be in their shoes and how dare you lift your hammer of Internet Morality at them. Let's clarify some things here.

They (the guilds using this exploit) knew what they were doing and they knew it was cheating. They knew this. From the begining. They aren't sorry for doing it and I wouldn't be either. It was a competitive play call that they (at least in Paragon's case) even hoped would result in some form of action. It was either going to turn out one of two ways. A) They get away with it and the race continues or B) They get caught and everyone doing so would be held back. It really was a win-win for them regardless.

Now, I know it's hard for you anoynomous peoples to project into that situation, but at least try and see why they did it instead of damning them for doing so. They made the right call for their motives/goals. Was it wrong? Yes! Yes, it was. But when you have the pressures of sponsorship, fans, community sites and other elements at your back the moral high ground, as it were, is veiled in a bit more fog than you might think.

I'm not saying what they did was the -right- thing to do, but it was the right call for the circumstance and ultimately they got what they wanted anyway.

They are sorry because they were caught doing it. The suspension is light and compared to how blizzard has treated others in the past that exploited they should have had their accounts banned. It's not like they unintentionally did this, they new it was an exploit and continued to do it.

Originally Posted by Antherios

Hahaha good one. Blizzard should apologize to cheaters for giving them a window to cheat.

Thats like Casinos apologizing to people using hidden computers because they didnt do a strip search at the entrance.

The second part of his statement is true though no other company would be let go for releasing a buggy patch, especially when the specific bug was reported in testing AWILE ago.

it is the nature of animals and mankind to naturally seek out easier alternatives to gain success. If you give a crow an intricate puzzle for the crow to do to get the food, but then have a quick hatch on the opposite side that gives instant access to the food, the crow will quickly choose to use the hatch as it is an easier option to success. Doing something like the above is no different, people found an easier way to get the loot, it wasn't supposed to work like that, but you cannot ban people for finding an easier alternative to the puzzle.

Originally Posted by Lolman

Sure, Paragons saying sorry now, but blizzard should not accept their apology and face the consequences. Paragon exploited the bug (probably knowingly) and therefore they deserved to be punished, there is nothing to be sorry for. It is like a gang robs a retail shop and when the police takes them into custody, the gang says they are sorry for robbing that retail shop. I doubt the police is just gonna let them go unpunished just because they apologized. If paragon's sorry, why did they exploit the bug in the first place?

Cant you read? They are getting temporarily banned...

Wow, screw Paragon. They're apologizing for getting loot I didn't get. I didn't feel like running LFR multiple times.

WHERE'S THE PERMA BAN?

Originally Posted by Bogrim

Because I don't care about your Rogue, but I care about Paragon and a lot of players I have talked to about the exploit in the game expressed a large disappointment in one of the most famed guilds sinking to this level.

You don't care about his Rogue but you don't speak for everyone else. I don't give 2 shits about Paragon and agree that this didn't need a to be on MMO-Champion. There are guilds and players out there who do things harder than what they do but don't and probably never will get any kind of recognition.

World first kills is the only real form of sport and competition in this game, you'll have to deal with it just like I have to deal with popular soccer matches interrupting my usual radio programs.

Not really. The fights go the same way every time, so it isn't a sport. If Deathwing did some random new moves each time you fought him, sure, it might be a sport. However, fighting a boss on the PTR so you know how to do it then doing it on the normal realms is hardly an accomplishment.

So its not skills... Its cheating.

Who actually believes Paragon didn't know about this exploit during their time on the PTR... they're just sugarcoating themselves to look like white knights.

They need to start disallowing people from PTR, especially people who got an in-game ban from the game.

People who weren't eligible for the Annual Pass should also be disallowed because they don't have a good standing. "Oh but I just started playing" -- people who just started should not be worried about what's going down on the PTR.

The WORST part is this glorified extended maintenance. Just bullshit drama for US guilds trying to race for world firsts. How much you wanna bet EU doesn't get an extended maintenance. And ontop of that, don't koreans have two resets per week? I'm glad I don't participate in the race...

i like how there defence agurment for them exploiting this was "but but they where also doing it and it is a race and blizzard is unclear with there rules"i woudn't say blizzard has ever been unclear with there rules it seems pritty dam

obvious, don't cheat on the last boss of a dungon (for ex Lich king, 0 guardingans yogg saron, queen vhaj bug)

but stacking a class witch is extremely good in a fight is ok (aka nefarion, rag, 0yogg)

you can use cheap tactics on non end bosses (the blind dragon, freeze guy in ulduar)

and you can't exploit a game system (aka raid finder bug, tag killing)

tell me how this dose not cover every single ban and non ban that has happend in wow over the last 3 years?

My favorite part about this is how they were trolling everyone by logging out with their LFR gear removed, not expecting to get any sort of punishment. Gave me a good chuckle.

Originally Posted by raeloneq

All I see here is a bunch of haters that didn't get to exploit the system.And the point is, Blizzard fucked up. They got exploited and they should be the ones apologizing for releasing buggy patches.

I want you to write a small browser-based RPG that has absolutely nothing wrong with it. Give it a week.

When you come back with a mangled piece of junk, I want you to think about building a game of this magnitude and ensuring that every single character of code is flawless both during internal and external testing.

During a VB programming course ( I know, I know D: ) I had written an interactive ordering system for a small restaurant; I couldn't get the damn thing to run. According to both professors, there was nothing conceivably wrong with what I had written. It just decided that it was tired of my shit, and wasn't going to run.

Something that was maybe a few hundred lines of code was being stubborn. Can you imagine something with millions of lines of code? Elements in something that complex can interact in ways that you could never EVER predict.

Originally Posted by Vallius

I find all the white knights on this board hilarious. Most of you have never and will never be in their shoes and how dare you lift your hammer of Internet Morality at them. Let's clarify some things here.

They (the guilds using this exploit) knew what they were doing and they knew it was cheating. They knew this. From the begining. They aren't sorry for doing it and I wouldn't be either. It was a competitive play call that they (at least in Paragon's case) even hoped would result in some form of action. It was either going to turn out one of two ways. A) They get away with it and the race continues or B) They get caught and everyone doing so would be held back. It really was a win-win for them regardless.

Now, I know it's hard for you anoynomous peoples to project into that situation, but at least try and see why they did it instead of damning them for doing so. They made the right call for their motives/goals. Was it wrong? Yes! Yes, it was. But when you have the pressures of sponsorship, fans, community sites and other elements at your back the moral high ground, as it were, is veiled in a bit more fog than you might think.

I'm not saying what they did was the -right- thing to do, but it was the right call for the circumstance and ultimately they got what they wanted anyway.

Its the other side, its a lose-lose situation for every top guild:

A) Guilds that did it and got banned.
B) Guilds that didnt do it may be good to get World Firsts, but they will be empty because the only reason they got those world firsts is because Paragon / Method / Envy are banned.

Judging by Paragon posts on forums they still think it was acceptable. That is their choice to think that way. But it definitely is wrong to a fair observer.

Dream Paragon apology is bullshit. Trying to save the face now?

Who cares about an 'apology' of Paragon? Do they think they'll be forgiven that they willingly abused a bug?

We don't realise it's wrong to do things beforehand. We do them first, and then with a loud gasp say "Ooh boy we were wrong *giggle*"

Originally Posted by Bahska

The second part of his statement is true though no other company would be let go for releasing a buggy patch, especially when the specific bug was reported in testing AWILE ago.

Just because a door is left open, doesn't make it acceptable to walk thru and take what you want. It takes character and integrity to walk past, even if you see everyone else running in and looting. If you know something is wrong, you should have the balls to say I'm not going to do it, even if those around you are. Paragon failed at this and the price they are paying is fair.

On a separate note, I wouldn't be at all surprised if their apology was part of some sort of plea agreement with Blizzard to get their suspensions reduced to 3 days from 8.

Yo vicite la Armory de Kruf y me parecio extraño tuviera tantos item 384 en tan solo 1 semana pero bueno es parte le lso errores de ingenieros asi que exitos a todos .

Originally Posted by Bashkar

I want you to write a small browser-based RPG that has absolutely nothing wrong with it. Give it a week.

When you come back with a mangled piece of junk, I want you to think about building a game of this magnitude and ensuring that every single character of code is flawless both during internal and external testing.

During a VB programming course ( I know, I know D: ) I had written an interactive ordering system for a small restaurant; I couldn't get the damn thing to run. According to both professors, there was nothing conceivably wrong with what I had written. It just decided that it was tired of my shit, and wasn't going to run.

Something that was maybe a few hundred lines of code was being stubborn. Can you imagine something with millions of lines of code? Elements in something that complex can interact in ways that you could never EVER predict.

Then ban everyone who finds out something went wrong. If nobody knows, it will be 100% flawless!