Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology

Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions
Blizzard finally commented on the Raid Finder Loot exploit resultingin multiple accounts suspensions in a lot of guilds.
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Shortly after patch 4.3 was released, we became aware that some players were abusing an exploit to obtain loot from the same Raid Finder bosses multiple times in a single raid lockout period (one week). The Raid Finder loot mechanic is of course intended to only allow a person to roll on boss loot drops once per raid lockout period. The raid lockout mechanic has been a mainstay of the World of Warcraft rules since Onyxia and Molten Core, ensuring that no one can obtain loot from a boss more than once per lockout. Due to the nature of the exploit and the clear intent of those who abused it, they've been issued notices and given temporary suspensions from the game. We’re also working to remove all Raid Finder items from those who used the exploit.

It's also worth noting that Paragon posted an apology on their website

An LFR Apology
There has been a lot of misinformation going around, so to clear things up, here is a truthful account of what exactly happened with the LFR and what we have to say about it:

The patch hit EU servers on Wednesday. We started off with our 5x Firelands runs to wrap up legendaries and called it a night. For Thursday, we had an elaborate plan to run a personal LFR raid for every main character to get the maximum amount of loot.

As we were doing the first few runs, we noticed an unrealistic amount of tier pieces on some guilds' armory profiles, which we thought was unattainable through normal means. We started looking into it, and found out that you can loot passed gear from bosses, regardless of save status, if you zone out and back into the instance. This did not provide the raid with any extra loot, but it did eliminate a major portion of the RNG that would have been involved in simply doing personal runs for everyone.

We acknowledge that using this unintended behavior, which was quite clearly a bug, to our gain, was wrong. The fact that others were using it as well is no justification for doing it ourselves. We apologize for doing it, and accept whatever consequences follow.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Raid Finder Loot Exploit Suspensions, Paragon Apology started by Boubouille View original post
Published on 2011-12-06 07:28 PM
488 Comments
Comments 480 Comments
  1. mmoccdcfc5f8d6's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowdream View Post
    Sadly, all the public apology is doing is labelling them as the primary cheaters here, which is a little unfair. Anyway, I've lost my respect for the guild, hopefully not forever, but for now, vodka for world first!
    Yeah, I kinda feel the same. Having been placed in a random dungeon with an Ensidia player once, I can respect how GOOD they are as players (the dude had questing blues and made the DPS charts his bitch). And I can respect their organization and their dedication.

    This whole debacle... puts an aura of shame over them. Rooting for Blood Legion and Vodka to rack up the heroic kills.
  1. Rekzil's Avatar
    Oh look... paragon cheats again. what a surprise... but don't worry guys they weren't the ONLY guilds exploiting.
  1. Hooky's Avatar
    lol it kind of DID give u extra loot, that u werent entitled too.....
  1. mmoc7c0806276b's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    Yeah, completely agree. Some of the posts on this thread are quite silly, with one guy trying to out do the other in some kind of silly arms race of how tough they'd be.

    Blizzard have totally overreacted on this issue. Remove the loot gained, warn account holders of the violation and that any future violations will be met with harsher action, and leave it at that. That would have been the sensible course of action. Instead Blizzard chose to smooth out a kink in the road with a nuclear bomb. Really quite silly.
    so what your saying is that a thief should just steal anything from a house, get caught and just return it all? And no other punishment involved. Paragon made a apology but even then they should have known that it was bad. If you get caught cheating you should be punished, and blizzard had a clear policy.

    i do find it a good thing they made a apology, but saying cause someone else did it we do it. If they wanted gear on all their toons from the lfr, once per boss. Take 2 -3 from each spec rest alts and rotate. They got the roster so its possible
  1. Rhyseh's Avatar
    Although they did exploit this mechanic you gotta give Paragon props for taking responsibility and apologising for their actions. Much more respectable than other guilds who go on childish rants when caught red handed *cough* Exodus *cough*
  1. Pancho's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jayremy View Post
    Who gets harmed from this? Why the need to ban that is the question why is everybody so obsessed with maximizing punishment when nobody is damaged from it.

    This isn't like real life theft, inside trading, speeding on the freeway, driving drunk, murder; you cannot compare it to real life torts and crimes because it involves a party being harmed in some way.

    Removing gains is enough, they wasted enough time trying to exploit with no reward- they took the risk, they lost that time from their lives they will never get back.

    Most of you here aren't even "in the race" so why the fuck do you think you have a say on adding more punishment, reputation tarnishing is enough punishment and leave it to the judgement of those actually there in that race, (because they all do communicate).

    As one post last page elaborately stated, there are numerous exploits that still exist in game everywhere, even in raids, people still do them Blizzard does no action on. The stupid part is the selective part of who gets banned for what.

    There is no malicious intent here, no need to punish, they were not griefing players, hacking, harassing, cheating in PvP, breaking the game or anything like that.
    because its the rules, many of the exploits/bugs currently in the game doesnt affect other players nor gave u advantages over other players, and this one did and it a exploit on a mechanic that have been up since vanilla so there isn't any grey area here, and it wasn't something that u can find/do by mistake at least after the 1st time
  1. Mort459's Avatar
    Honestly hope Paragon gets the world first just so I can read all the QQ on these forums.
  1. StixRam's Avatar
    i don't see why the ppl taking advantage of the situation get in trouble... if blizzard knew how to code properly this wouldn't have happened in the first place am i right?
  1. imsalty's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekzil View Post
    Oh look... paragon cheats again. what a surprise... but don't worry guys they weren't the ONLY guilds exploiting.
    At least they acknowledge it. Haven't heard anyone else step up and take it on the chin.
  1. ZeroWashu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jayremy View Post
    Who gets harmed from this? Why the need to ban that is the question why is everybody so obsessed with maximizing punishment when nobody is damaged from it.

    This isn't like real life theft, inside trading, speeding on the freeway, driving drunk, murder; you cannot compare it to real life torts and crimes because it involves a party being harmed in some way.


    There is no malicious intent here, no need to punish, they were not griefing players, hacking, harassing, cheating in PvP, breaking the game or anything like that.
    Who gets harmed? Only the people who play the game the way its intended. Absurd comparisons and such just that, and no one with a brain would attempt to make them. As such, their being banned for an extended time is obviously no more harmful than their cheating, after all it is just a game, right?

    It is griefing others to obtain items and world firsts or similar by cheating. I think its really odd you find cheating in PvP to not be acceptable but cheating in PvE is. Really your last sentence is loaded with absurdity.
  1. mmoc780945631d's Avatar
    I love how the only guild that actually has the balls to make a public apology seems to be getting 90% of the community's hate directed at them, it's like people are forgetting that Ensidia, Envy, Method and others did the exact same thing Paragon did and had the exact same reasoning Paragon did (other's did it so we did it too to remain competitive). Hypocrisy at it's finest from the community when we take into account that most other top guilds exploit just as much as Paragon does.
  1. mmoccfd24c5a79's Avatar
    They were many weeks faster than the next ones from the LK till Rag heroics, so this time they just wanted a bit more challenge by taking some ban
  1. Malania's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fals View Post
    They didnt get banned, and i know several people who faction changed and cleared firelands several times the first reset.
    The difference is if you pay blizzard and exploit they will look the other way.
    But if you dont you get the hammer. This is some of the most double morale shit ive ever come across.
    Again, thats not an exploit. The system is designed so if you faction swap, your lockouts will be reset, and thats done for people joining new guilds. It's hardly because they're thinking "OMGMUNNIEZ". The current loot system is setup so you CANNOT obtain loot on the same toon, on the same faction, for the same encounter twice in one week. Warcraft is 7 years old and you've only ever been able to obtain loot once a week for the same encounter. Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp just because they've introduced LFR?

    The only reason STARS were even kicked out, is for fair play for the rest of the guilds. They weren't obligated to do it, in which case Blizzard apparently has higher standards (not morale) than you thought.
  1. forg99rules's Avatar
    Funny watching everyone call paragon names and say that they deserve more punishment when most of you would do the exact same thing if you found it. honestly i havent lost any respect for paragon... there still great players and could destroy any raid they wanted to way before most of us so yeah i still give them props... i know if i had found this exploit i woulda done it... makes it easier to gear up and more likely to be able to clear harder content... oh and for you idiots who are going to quote this and say something retarded... im probly not gonna look at this thread again anyways
  1. koimagheul's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Again, thats not an exploit. The system is designed so if you faction swap, your lockouts will be reset
    tip: lockouts were implemented for a reason.
    faction swapping to bypass lockouts IS an exploit. period.
  1. Mercadi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by forg99rules View Post
    Funny watching everyone call paragon names and say that they deserve more punishment when most of you would do the exact same thing if you found it. honestly i havent lost any respect for paragon... there still great players and could destroy any raid they wanted to way before most of us so yeah i still give them props... i know if i had found this exploit i woulda done it... makes it easier to gear up and more likely to be able to clear harder content... oh and for you idiots who are going to quote this and say something retarded... im probly not gonna look at this thread again anyways

    It became publicly known Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning through WoW forums. Whoever found out about it could start cheating right away.
  1. TrapTime's Avatar
    if they knew it was wrong then why did they continue doing it? >.>
  1. drakonblayde's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyseh View Post
    Although they did exploit this mechanic you gotta give Paragon props for taking responsibility and apologising for their actions. Much more respectable than other guilds who go on childish rants when caught red handed *cough* Exodus *cough*
    I'm glad they're willing to stand up and admit they did wrong, but I'd respect that apology alot more if they'd copped to it before the bans went into effect.
  1. Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
    Cheaters or not they're still the top 2 guilds in the world and their skill hasn't changed their respect has.
    Their popularity and PR has dropped alot which I'm sure doesn't sit well with their sponsors, fair gaming ("fair play") should be respected if you are a popular guild with several 100k fans world wide regardless what everyone else is doing.

    Let's everyone cheer on blizzard who sets the standard (hopefully) for glitching/bug abusing for the future, if PvE wow is ever going to become a high end E-Sport then they have to strike down with fury and ban hammers at those who tries to cheat the system as it's intended by blizzard. Accident is once, repeatedly (20+times) is NOT!
  1. Lorkin's Avatar
    Didn't this happen with Ensidia and their Heroic LK kill back in WotLK? They used engineering bombs or something to prevent the platform from disappearing and they all got suspended and their world first titles taken away. They lost a lot of cred with their suspensions and we haven't heard much from them afterwards (no more world firsts?). You think they same might happen to Paragon?
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