Mists of Pandaria Challenge Mode Dungeons, Class Transmogrification List

Originally Posted by Granyala

SLabs HC... 5hr runs (trash before Ogre = hell)... man were we bad in that day.
Was fun though, because getting whacked that hard is a strong motivator to improve your play.

Well for me at least. oO

Yeah Shadow Labs was absolutely crazy on HC. That whole room where the Ogre is was just crazy. I can´t remember how long the runs took us tho. I think a full run was a few hours tho.

The 4.3. HCs are super easy tbh, if you have a half decent group you mow through them in 15 min each

All I have to say is.. Skyshatter set, OVERRATED. For shame, fellow shamans, for shame.

Originally Posted by Eggwolls

All I have to say is.. Skyshatter set, OVERRATED. For shame, fellow shamans, for shame.

My shaman wears T12, because It looks really good on her.

i don't believe it dong beetle stalker is one of popular transmog sets for hunters

Originally Posted by Alayea

I'm all for bringing back WotLK difficulty now that Blizzard has plans for "challenge mode" dungeons. It means that there will be less validity (if there ever was) to claims coming from those who want a heroic-raid difficulty applied to the heroic dungeons.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Some people have a long-term memory problem. I recall players shuddering at Halls of Stone, swearing off Oculus, wanting a fort buff for Loken from Halls of Lightning, needing a hunter for Slad'ran of Gun'drak, or the rage-quitting when you got one of the ICC 5-mans. Or hey, that one pack of mobs in Drak'theron Keep that feared you into more mobs. Remember that?

I did all the dungeons when they were fresh content. By the time we were 6 months into Icecrown Citadel, I was enjoying zooming through the instances because I felt I had earned it. Then Cataclysm came along with its nerfs to healers and AoE, and while it can be said that dungeons have become easier as we overgear them, we've never been able to ignore a mechanic since. Now, I'm not for rendering the concept of mechanics entirely obsolete but I also feel cheated somewhat.

/rant


Moving more on topic... I'm surprised that so few shaman went for the T2 set. Guess that make me one of the more unique.

This, for the love of all that is holy, THIS. I am so sick of hearing people say "Oh lol Wrath heroics were easy mode from day one, lololol"

No, they weren't. You people only remember them as easy as we were stuck in a year-long end-game run where we out geared all the old heroics by 51-64 points. ANYTHING in this game will become faceroll at that level of gear jump. What you people don't remember is what the heroics were like at launch, or choose not to remember so you can jump on the disgusting bandwagon of Wrathbabies that Total Buiscuit set (and everyone seems to adamantly follow).

Here's a few examples of what I'm sure you failed to remember from Wrath's early days:

Nexus: Anomolus and Keristrasza were pug-killers when people were going in at the launch in heroic mode.

Azjol-Nerub: The opening gauntlet that wiped pug after pug due to not having the DPS or CC required to bring the mini-bosses down before the next wave activated.

Old Kingdom: Oh hai there trash that would one-shot a tank if they weren't interrupted, how you doing? Let's also not forget Jedoga and her tank-obliteration if an add wasn't killed, or how standing in her lightning was in fact a kill move early on.

Gundrak: Slad'ran, the boss groups were unable to kill early on without kiting him out of the room in order to ignore an entire mechanic. Yup, that sure was an easy boss.

Halls of Stone: Tribunal of Ages. Enough said. I had groups that wouldn't even bother with anything else in the dungeon until they were sure the group could down this boss, and early on it was very much indeed a struggle to finish.

Halls of Lightning: Loken. He needs no introductions, but according to most people, he was just a silly spank 'n tank that we downed on our first go with zero problems, yup, easy mode right?

Oculus: Eragos before they added gear scaling to the tanks. This is the epitome of what you people consider an epic fight in Cataclysm. Everyone has to stay on their toes, no one can make any mistakes, and each person must have a mastery of their drake's rotations and when to pop certain abilities to down him. But oh, wait, he's a vehicle fight, that just means he's broken and difficult for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there were easy-mode heroics in Wrath like UK, UP, and Drak'theron keep, but there were also very easy heroics at the start of Cataclysm too, such as Vortex Pinnacle, Tol'vir, and Throne of the Tides. However, like Alayea said, so many of you have apparently forgotten what Wrath was like at launch. Unless you were in full Sunwell Plateau gear and running these heroics with your guild in equally powerful gear, you were not face rolling these dungeons at launch. And mind you, this is only the launch heroics of Wrath. I'm not even going to get into how difficult Firefighterand Yogg Zero keepers was, how the Lich King was boss that took the longest for any guild to down in the history of the damned game (that's going from his release on the second of Feb to his defeat on Heroic 25 on the 26th of March), or how Sartharion, an entry-level boss, was incredibly difficult to defeat early on with three drakes up.

No no, Wrath was nothing but easy mode sillyness where everyone was simply able to faceroll everything right out of the gate. Though I suppose I can't really be too upset at people. Being stuck in the end-game of an expansion for an entire year will cause most people to forget what the game was like before they had easy-access to 251 and better gear right at level 80.

Originally Posted by Baracuda1337

I think that RAID FINDER gear should be "blue"(superior), Normal should remain epic.

normal isnt epic anymore though.. go listen to methods first madness kill.. the first thing said is.. lets go log on star wars now.. not a scream nothing..

now go listen to sk gamings first kil jaeden kill and you tell me the difference.

Originally Posted by Bladesyphon

Nexus: Anomolus and Keristrasza were pug-killers when people were going in at the launch in heroic mode.

Azjol-Nerub: The opening gauntlet that wiped pug after pug due to not having the DPS or CC required to bring the mini-bosses down before the next wave activated.

Old Kingdom: Oh hai there trash that would one-shot a tank if they weren't interrupted, how you doing? Let's also not forget Jedoga and her tank-obliteration if an add wasn't killed, or how standing in her lightning was in fact a kill move early on.

Gundrak: Slad'ran, the boss groups were unable to kill early on without kiting him out of the room in order to ignore an entire mechanic. Yup, that sure was an easy boss.

Halls of Stone: Tribunal of Ages. Enough said. I had groups that wouldn't even bother with anything else in the dungeon until they were sure the group could down this boss, and early on it was very much indeed a struggle to finish.

Halls of Lightning: Loken. He needs no introductions, but according to most people, he was just a silly spank 'n tank that we downed on our first go with zero problems, yup, easy mode right?

Oculus: Eragos before they added gear scaling to the tanks. This is the epitome of what you people consider an epic fight in Cataclysm. Everyone has to stay on their toes, no one can make any mistakes, and each person must have a mastery of their drake's rotations and when to pop certain abilities to down him. But oh, wait, he's a vehicle fight, that just means he's broken and difficult for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there were easy-mode heroics in Wrath like UK, UP, and Drak'theron keep, but there were also very easy heroics at the start of Cataclysm too, such as Vortex Pinnacle, Tol'vir, and Throne of the Tides. However, like Alayea said, so many of you have apparently forgotten what Wrath was like at launch. Unless you were in full Sunwell Plateau gear and running these heroics with your guild in equally powerful gear, you were not face rolling these dungeons at launch. And mind you, this is only the launch heroics of Wrath. I'm not even going to get into how difficult Firefighterand Yogg Zero keepers was, how the Lich King was boss that took the longest for any guild to down in the history of the damned game (that's going from his release on the second of Feb to his defeat on Heroic 25 on the 26th of March), or how Sartharion, an entry-level boss, was incredibly difficult to defeat early on with three drakes up.

No no, Wrath was nothing but easy mode sillyness where everyone was simply able to faceroll everything right out of the gate. Though I suppose I can't really be too upset at people. Being stuck in the end-game of an expansion for an entire year will cause most people to forget what the game was like before they had easy-access to 251 and better gear right at level 80.

Wow, are you for real ? *-*
None of the bosses you listed were hard at any point of the expansion. Maybe Loken, if the people were retarded enough..
WotLK's heroics were stupidly easy from start. The only way to fail was to be a COMPLETE newbie who never, ever, ever, ever looked at the game's tooltips from lvl 1. And for me that is quite an achievement.

I really don't like what they're aiming at, I'm honestly convinced that if they decided to use a design where they gave newbies some tools, at some points during progression, to understand the game better, cheer them up and allow them to step up, it would be better for everyone. Them, the community, everyone. "Challenge" doesn't equal "Time spent in game", I'm actually a total casual, and I enjoy 30min heroic dungeon runs, but I want those 30min to be at least A BIT thrilling.
Challenge mode's goal isn't for progress, so we'll still have to go through Heroics, but WotLK-ish heroics won't do it for me.

Originally Posted by Crovaz

World of Warcraft has become a microcosm of what's wrong with America today. Back before the housing boom, most people had to have good credit, save up money for a down payment and do all the necessary things in order to afford a home. Then, some people said "Hey, I work 40 hours a week too, why can't I have a home too?" so then mortgage companies came up with these new and innovative ways so that just about anyone could own a home, even without down payments or even good credit ratings. So then what happened was these people got into homes they wouldn't have been able to afford before and ended up either upside down or broke because they couldn't really afford it to begin with. They then decide the best course of action is to trash the home, move out and file for bankruptcy. By doing this, they screwed the people that really could afford their own homes and now those people are upside down or the value of their home has gone down by as much as 50%.

You do realize that the people "that truly deserved their home" weren't effect in the least by this housing bubble/sub-prime/poisoned mortgage game right? They stayed in their nice, sub-2000 square foot home. Lived within their means (ie: Didn't use their "home equity" to buy the big SUV and other useless crap). They weren't effected by the credit crunch.

Please, go read up on what really happened and how it does effect 80% of the population that are living off of their credit. The 20% that don't play the "keeping up with the Jones" game are doing fine and laughing at all the gullible fools.

Originally Posted by Crovaz

The same kind of thing has happened in WoW as well. People, early on decided that they wanted to raid so they put forth the effort to gear up, form guilds and study strategies in order to raid and enjoy a good challenge. They know that if they work hard they'll be rewarded for their efforts with fantastic looking gear. Then what happened is the casuals came in and said "Hey, we pay 15 dollars a month too, we want to be able to see all the content and get all the gear w/o the effort" so Blizzard listened and decided to come up with new and innovative ways so that casuals could see the content too and that's where LFR comes in. Now, those same casuals, who after running LFR for weeks on end, decide that LFR is boring now and they're going to unsub because they got everything needed and they face rolled through the content.

Now, the original people that loved that game and loved a good challenge, are now stuck with this flaming piece of pig shit called MoP.

This is a game. It has evolved past that point. People don't want to commit to 3+ nights of raiding anymore. They don't want 2+ hour heroics. They do want to log in, do a few things, then log out and go do other stuff.

My personal thoughts on this are:

Fine, it makes sense. If I want challenging modes or content, I'll go with my guildies. People that I know what their skill level is. I will have fun that way. This is what I said earlier in the post, I'm still a little surprised that this will be part of the LFD tool. Unless they have a clear option to select this, I can see fight after fight and rage quits in the future.

Originally Posted by Cheebie

Heroic Raids > Normal Raids > Challenge Modes > LFR > Heroic Dungeons > Normal Dungeons

Can't wait to try this out (to be fair I say that about everything in this expansion), should be interesting how this turns out in the end, especially with PuG runs.

This seems to look accurate to me. I like a good challenge as much as the next guy but placing annoying boss mechanics on certain bosses to me is dumb, perfect examples of this was the 2nd boss in heroic black rock caverns and cookie in heroic deadmines. Both are examples of heroic fights that new players at 85 cant do on their first try, these are the types of mechanics that are unforgiving and don't add to difficulty just annoyance for new players. I have been playing for 7 years and I still think that kind of shit is stupid and unnecessary for fights.

Originally Posted by Unholyground

This seems to look accurate to me. I like a good challenge as much as the next guy but placing annoying boss mechanics on certain bosses to me is dumb, perfect examples of this was the 2nd boss in heroic black rock caverns and cookie in heroic deadmines. Both are examples of heroic fights that new players at 85 cant do on their first try, these are the types of mechanics that are unforgiving and don't add to difficulty just annoyance for new players. I have been playing for 7 years and I still think that kind of shit is stupid and unnecessary for fights.

It depends how much trash the instance has. If it dont got much trash players can focus their time on learning bosses instead of CCing and downing some overtuned trash.

Originally Posted by Eggwolls

All I have to say is.. Skyshatter set, OVERRATED. For shame, fellow shamans, for shame.

Yeah seems indeed be a bit overrated !! It is cool tho so I can understand why everyone uses it

So now we can have piss-easy dungeons but run them fast? As if people weren't facerolling their way through WotLK heroics with lightning speed anyway. Not much challenge in that

Edit: If they mean as WotLK heroics were when first dinging 80, then that's alright I guess. It comes down to how the decide to scale gear. If they, on the other hand, scale gear as if it were Naxx-level or higher, then this is going to be a horrible experience

...Wait a sec.. Challenge mode dungeons with timed rewards, monthly leaderboards, gear normalization, and no upgrades for doing them? No no wait just one second, could it be?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Challenge_Mission
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon

Yes! THAT'S where I know them from!

I'm just praying that Guild Wars 2 finally comes out before yet another aspect from GW1 or GW2 is stolen from WoW completely brutalizing the idea and getting a bad taste in everyone's mouth for when the better, original version finally shows itself...

And the heroic difficulty is becoming yet again easier? lol wait what happened to this?
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469

And Pokemon? Yeah I'm glad I quit WoW because it's just becoming sad how bad it's getting.. Shame, really. I loved the game for a couple years, now it's just an embarrassment.

It is kind of embarrassing

Just one question. Remember the days when you used to thoroughly read a boss guide on bosskillers.com or equivelant websites before your first time on a boss? Good times! Anyway to the real point of actual dungeons. The main reason Blizzard is doing this is for the casual players, I understand sure but that's not the way to fix the problem. Casual doesn't necesserily mean easy, I wouldn't mind a fast dungeon with a challenge and people with lesser gear/understanding for basic mechanics concept could just stick to normals? Its how any progress works, you work up the ladder, but seems like blizzard wants people to jump a few steps up the ladder. I mean the only way to do this is actually having the normal difficulties(lvl90) reward decent enough rewards, and the heroic difficulties is what's all about not ignoring boss mechanics or its a whipe(Just like LFR and Normal). Because then challenge modes will be one easy thing to do everyday if its done in Wotlk HC level, it will be all about ignoring mechanics and run your ass off through the dungeon. Now to people saying that wotlk hc's wasn't hard at start, as this is partially true only for a few bosses(not whole dungeons) I think Blizzard's mention of the words 'Wotlk HC level' is that they intend to make it easy, just read between the lines.

The only thing i don't understand is how people who clearly dislike the game in its actual incarnation and also in the way it's going to can still stay here everyday and read the game news, only for saying "what a crap!".

I mean, nothing against your opinion, but can anyone explain the reason for this? Do any of you REALLY think that they have the power to change the game developement in some way?

This is a game. It has evolved past that point. People don't want to commit to 3+ nights of raiding anymore.

Yes its called PuG raids which many have been doing for over three years. Players dont have to commit to a raiding guild and a fixed schedule. I did progression raiding with a guild from Kara to BT back in BC and when WotLK hit I moved to PuGs and have been doing such until 4.3 due to the significant drop of players wanting to PuG normal modes when I play and this includes my own efforts of trying to lead my own raid. When it comes down to it many players dont want to make that step up in difficulty for marginally better rewards. The reward system Blizzard is shifting to is to place the bulk of the rewards for players putting in minimum effort only reflects such and the idea of improving oneself and being rewarded for such is becoming a thing of the past.

It's been half a year and the lack of new MoP info disturbs me.

I think Wotlk dungeons really were just right, Sure they were super easy once you out geared them by so much (just like cata heroics are now) but when they were brand new I remember plenty of wipes and that was even before LFD so we were wiping with pre built groups

Originally Posted by zimzum2523

I think Wotlk dungeons really were just right, Sure they were super easy once you out geared them by so much (just like cata heroics are now) but when they were brand new I remember plenty of wipes and that was even before LFD so we were wiping with pre built groups

Yes, I agree. However, no one remembers those early Wrath days clearly. /: