Sha of Anger, Arena of Annihilation, Blue Posts, Blizzard at gamescom, Blizzard News

Demon Hunter - 100k Inferno Clear, Hotfixes, PayPal Maintenance, Blizzard Activities Confirmed for gamescom, Diablo I and II Music, Poll

Sha of Anger Preview
Tonight we have a preview of the Sha of Anger World Boss, located in Kun-Lai Summit.

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Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
Pandaria
Shrouded in mists since the world was sundered ten thousand years ago, the ancient realm of Pandaria has remained unspoiled by war. Its lush forests and cloud-ringed mountains are home to a complex ecosystem of indigenous races and exotic creatures. It is the homeland of the enigmatic pandaren, a race that celebrates life to the fullest even while under siege by an ancient menace.

Achievements

Sha of Anger
  • Seethe - The Sha of Anger projects seething anger at his current target if no players stand within his melee attack range. Seethe inflicts 80,000 Shadow damage and increases Shadow damage taken by the player by 10% for 20 sec.
  • Endless Rage - The anger brought by the Alliance and Horde to Pandaria flows through the Sha of Anger, erupting forth as a shower of Sha energy. Each missile inflicts 100,000 Shadow damage to players within 3 yards of the impact point and summons forth an Ire and a cloud of Bitter Thoughts.
    • Ire - A manifestation of anger summoned by the Sha of Anger's Endless Rage.
    • Bitter Thoughts - The cloud of Bitter Thoughts prevents all players within 3 yards from either attacking or casting spells. The cloud persists for 60 sec.
  • Stage One: Growing Anger - The Sha of Anger's rage grows over 50 seconds.
    • Growing Anger - The Sha of Anger infects 3 players with angry thoughts. After 6 sec, infected players display Aggressive Behavior.
      • Aggressive Behavior - The affected player erupts with anger, causing the player and all allies within 5 yards to fall under the control of the Sha of Anger for 30 sec. Increases damage dealt by 200% and maximum health by 200%. Aggressive Behavior is removed if the player falls below 50% remaining health.
  • Stage Two: Unleashed Wrath - Upon reaching 100 rage, the Sha of Anger unleashes its wrath upon its enemies. This phase lasts until the Sha of Anger's rage reaches 0.
    • Unleashed Wrath - The Sha of Anger unleashes pent-up rage for 25 sec. The Unleashed Wrath inflicts 60,000 Shadow damage to 10 random targets every 2 seconds.



Arena of Annihilation Scenario Preview
The Arena of Annihilation scenario is similar to the Ring of Blood style group quests.



Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Mists of Pandaria Legendary Items
In beta we have legendary quests that you have to do in 5.1. do you know if that mean first MOP legendaries arent until 5.1?
We'll have more info on that in due time. (Twitter)

2012 Spirit of Competition Pet
There's no Spirit of Competition reward this year. The expansion's kept us busy and contains MANY pets (handle them). (Twitter)

PTR Disconnection Issue
The issue should be presently resolved. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Beta Class Balance Analysis
Warrior (Forums)
Colossus is not proccing of auto-attacks -- is this a bug?
Yes, this should be fixed for the next build.

Death Knight (Forums)
Currently, the Gargoyle's Gargoyle Strike scales with a mechanism that does not seem to compare with any other pet ability mechanisms. We know you do not want to share specific values, but an explanation on what exactly affects the scaling of the spell would be helpful in modelling it.
Wow, this was an obscure bug! Turns out that Gargoyle Strike was accidentally hooked up to a mechanic that made its damage scale in a very odd way. We just removed that and adjusted its damage to compensate. In the next build, Gary the Gargoyle will get 70% of your AP as SP, and Gargoyle Strike will do base damage based on level (623 at level 90) plus 82.6% of SP. Hope that helps!

Monk (Forums)
In it's current state Zen sphere went from OP to useless, leaving tier30 practically useless for the windwalker monk, any plans to change this in a future build?
It’d be much more useful if there was some theorycrafting to back this up. Has this been tested? If so, please share your findings and numbers with us.

Everyone’s feedback and hard work testing class abilities has been great. We really do appreciate it! I just want to echo what Ghostcrawler said earlier in this thread:

Just a reminder that we really want to focus here on damage, healing and tanking numbers. We don't want this to be a catch all "ask the blues." Ideally we'd like to see more "How does this work?" and less "Why did you change this?" (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Monk (Forums)
Monk Mistweaver Feedback
  • Xuen is not scaling with AP converted from SP. We’re in the process of fixing this. His damage will increase significantly when completed.
  • We agree that Rushing Jade Wind isn’t that much of a competitive choice for Mistweaver’s in that tier. We’re adding a new effect which will increase the healing done by the Monk’s Spinning Crane Kick (via Teachings of the Monastery) after cast.
  • Revival is intended to be the Tranquility/Divine Hymn for Monks. We agree it may not be as competitive as the other healer's timers, so it’s likely we’ll do some tuning there.
  • We’re going to be removing the cap of Renewing Mists (from 10 targets), mainly because the cooldown should be the limiter of # of active targets, not an arbitrary cap.
  • Regarding Uplift not filling the slot of AOE healing, Spinning Crane Kick’s heal is intended to fill that gap. The healing done by SCK in the live beta build is bugged and not scaling from spellpower. We've got this fixed in a future beta patch.
  • Regarding the melee healing monk, we'd appreciate more detail about what exactly is hampering the subspec from being viable.
  • We agree that monks have mana issues right now, but in our tests, Mistweavers are still doing quite well. Expect healing number reductions if we do reduce mana costs and/or buff Mana Tea.

Lastly, we welcome any videos + combat log parses of raid tests with Mistweavers (in both ranged healing and melee healing subspecs), if you guys have them. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Monk (Forums)
Upcoming Monk Changes
We agree the rotation feels slightly slower paced in entry level gear than intended.

In an upcoming build we intend to increase the base Energy regeneration to 10/second, up from 8/second (and yes, this will also affect Brewmasters). We may have to follow this with some damage reductions, as monks are already performing at an optimal state in our damage tests. That said, in entry level expansion items, Energy regeneration rates are always going to feel slower than they should, because we have to tune things with future gear in mind.

Regarding “cleaving” damage balance, monks in our tests are competitive on 3+ targets via Spinning Crane Kick rather than Jab in a slightly different rotation.

As always, challenging us with specific numbers when outlining your case is very welcome. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Heroic Spine Changes After Mists of Pandaria Pre-Patch
So I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but is anything being done to make heroic spine beatable after the nerf to dispels that are going out? Considering how rapidly you have to dispel on it, it seems impossible with the new dispell reductions.
When the pre-Mists patch goes live, Blood Corruption on the Heroic Spine of Deathwing encounter will transform into the positive type after a single dispel.

Somewhat related, successfully dispelling Wrack on Sinestra will reset the cooldown of the caster's dispel ability, keeping the gameplay there unchanged. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Content Difficulty and Consumption Speed
Why do they have to see heroic versions of the same content, without investing at least a tenth of the work of others?
Why are you assuming that it's those same players going on LFR the ones that are getting to the heroic versions now? There are players that started on normal back when the raid was released, that today are still progressing through Heroic Dragon Soul.

Isn't heroic mode just for those who WANT to spend their time in heroic modes of current raids?
You can't just go and put players in boxes where they'll fit nicely. There're no "normal" and "heroic" raiders. There are players. Some can (and only) want to do LFR, some others just Heroic, and some others just Normal. Sure.

But there are many players that start at Normal and just keep progressing until the end, if they can make it that far. The end for them isn't at the end boss of the normal difficulty of a given tier, it is at Heroic. We already said back in the Wrath of the Lich King days that heroic (hardmode back then) bosses were considered part of your progression through each tier. And as I've mentioned on this thread several times already, the developers saw that after some time of hitting a brick wall, players will just stop trying.

The dedication and consistency to actually keep bashing themselves against a very challenging encounter for extended periods of time is something that is really exclusive to the most hardcore raiders.

It doesn't double the amount of content, thats merely an illusion. What it does is double the burnout and reduce the mystique of each raid instance. The brickwalls, as you call them, are probably nothing more than an average guild wiping a couple of times on a hc boss before reverting back to normal.

I've seen this over and over again. 95% of the so called 'raiders' in this patch have no idea what a brick wall really is. In fact if these brick walls, were real brick walls, then the content would never have been cleared without the nerf at all would it? I assume the members of your guild are in full possession of thier faculties?
You can't pretend you know better than others. You can't really tell them they have no idea what a brick wall is. Because what it might not be to you a brick wall, for others it is. For your raid dealing with Heroic Yorsahj's Yellow+Red+Black might be insanely easy. For others, even with Bloodlust, they might struggle to clear adds and keep everyone up. And probably you won't even picture how is that possible because it was never difficult for you in the first place, but the fact is... it is for others.

Just give us one boss for every raidtier, an optional boss, but an insanely hard one (Sinestra was the right direction), only 0.05% of all Players shall be able to kill him (like PvP), only those 0.05% of all Players shall get an epic PvE title/mount and maybe some gear from this boss (like PvP) and with every new raidtier remove the title/mount rewards from the old one. Do this and you will win hundreds of thounds more subscribers.
And by which logic having a boss that is accessible only to 0.05% of all players and removing the rewards from the previous one will make hundreds of thousands more to subscribe? Do you really think that saying to a crowd of 10,000 people, that they should subscribe because only 5 of them will ever get to see this one boss, will actually look appealing to them?

Than why do you do it for PvP?
I think you're mixing content with rewards. There's no content that is available only to 0.5% of the PVP players. There are rewards for them. And while it's not an exact comparison (to my knowledge) we have Realm First! achievements as well on the PVE side of things which are just as exclusive rewards as those titles.

If they are motivated, then they will work to see it. If they aren't motivated, then they don't deserve to see it. It's the same as real life : if you're not motivated to have a job or a diploma, then why on earth you should have it ?
Are you seriously comparing having a job, or a diploma (and the motivation to have those things), with defeating a virtual boss in a virtual world?

If we follow your "logic", then WHY does the Gladiator titles and mounts still exists then ? It is only reserved to 0.5% of the top best players, and they got a shiny mount and a badass title. Please tell me how this is different from the situation you're quoting.
See the first part of this post. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Too Many Levels?
Guys, you're missing my point. It isn't about actual time played to get to cap, It's more about the perception of ""How Many??"".

As we know, it's been stated by Blizz that certain numbers in the game are getting a little out of hand: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3258652
I think you have a good point, perceptions are a very tricky subject to deal with.

Still, I think it’s important to understand where perceptions come from. I think this one in particular is very dependent on what players are accustomed to with the MMORPG genre. This is really important because WoW has been, in my opinion, constantly setting and raising the standards of what players should expect of a MMORPG game.
Where I’m getting at is, this is all relative, if Vanilla had a level cap other than 60, let’s say 200, we could easily be discussing how increasing it to a number like 300 in MoP could be causing a weird perception of being “too high” of a value.

I think we’re quite safe. For me, the most important thing is that we keep the proportional relation between “time spent levelling” and the increase in the level cap with each expansion somewhat consistent.
With BC and WoTLK we increased the level cap by 10, so in WoTLK players already knew what to expect, but in Cataclysm it was only 5 levels, and that’s where perceptions can get a little weird because players could think “hey it’s going to take half the time”, which isn’t really true, as we can adjust many other variables like xp gained per mob/quest/dungeon and the amount of xp required per level.

I think players have roughly a good idea of what to expect with the levelling pace in MoP and hopefully if anything surprises them on that regard it will only be for the best.

Regarding the issue that you mentioned with the “Item Squish”, there are two things at stake there, one is perception, if values increase exponentially they will eventually look weird and hard to read.
But most importantly it was and still is, a matter of hardware. A lot of players still use 32-bit computers, or at least have a 32-bit OS even if they might have a 64bit CPU.

I won’t get into much detail here but from what I can remember of my microprogramming days it has to do with the amount of bits a CPU can process per cycle. Since all variables are eventually converted to a binary number at the lowest level, when you get a big enough decimal number, let’s say 2,147,483,647 we’ve just hit the limit of 32-bits for a signed number. So imagine you have a boss with a HP higher than that value, or you have a damage meter addon that is constantly adding up all the damage your raid is doing, once those values surpass that decimal number your 32-bit CPU will need 2 cycles instead of 1 to do the same calculation, thus reducing the overall performance of the game.
So unless we get everyone to use 64-bit CPUs/OSes, there’s really no way around it, it will have to be dealt with somehow, whether it’s by doing an item squish or something else, only time and our dear developers will know.

For MoP, you don’t have to worry about it, there won’t be any item squish. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Should I Buy Mists of Pandaria?
It will be my last year of school, I will have to get good grades like 19.2+/20. So it will be like playing 1 hour per day . Can I do a lot of things in 1 hour or leveling , gearing will be taking ages? Will I have to play the game 3 hours + to do well ?
There is a lot of different content in Mists of Pandaria, and as always some things will take longer to do than other things. Having enough time available all depends on what you want to get out of the game.

If you feel there is a real risk that playing the game might interfere with your studies, then I personally think that it would be best for you to wait getting the expansion until such a time when you feel that you have the time you need to play the game the way you want.

The reason being I really worry that its going to be a children's expansion. This is not a criticism its just the impression I have from what I read.
There is nothing wrong with being skeptical, so if you are concerned that the expansion might not be for you, then it would probably not be a bad idea to just wait and see what kind of impact Mists of Pandaria will have on World of Warcraft and the community playing it :-)

Mists of Pandaria has a lot of grimness and gloom as well, and from what I have seen I think the expansion strikes a nice balance between the whimsical Warcraft and serious Warcraft. It still feels like World of Warcraft when playing it, so in my opinion it is not a fluffy and cuddly "childrens expansion". (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Does Mists of Pandaria Feel Rushed?
I can't really judge whether MoP "feels rushed", given how it hasn't been released yet, but I'll be sure to come back in 2/3 months time and tell you how I feel about the expansion
And we look forward to hear what you, and everyone else of course, have to say by then.

They still have 2 months? Doesn't seem like any magic involved there..
Indeed. A release date has been announced, but that doesn't mean that Mists of Pandaria is now done and the developers are now comfortably sitting back, kicking their feet up, and taking a 2 months break. They are still hard at work making sure that Mists of Pandaria will be good and ready for launch.

This of course doesn't mean that you shouldn't share your feedback if you feel that the content in the beta doesn't feel ready for launch, but please do not mistake the beta as the finished game. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blizzard Activities Confirmed for gamescom 2012
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
It’s nearly time for gamescom 2012, and we hope you’re as excited as we are for the slew of awesome activities we have in store for you at the Blizzard booth!

The world premiere of the World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria opening cinematic will wow the crowds at our booth during the first fully public day of the event, Thursday August 16, at 14:00. We’ll also have a live drum performance from MANAO - Drums of China – the all-female Chinese drumming group that opened and closed the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.

You can also participate in our Mists of Pandaria Leveling Contest on Thursday and Friday, or step into the spotlight for the Blizzard Costume Contest and the World of Warcraft Dance Contest, on Saturday and Sunday respectively. Impress our judges and win some amazing prizes from our partners.

Experience the enchanting music from the World of Warcraft, StarCraft, and Diablo franchises performed by a live orchestra on Friday and Saturday, or watch as Blizzard artist Grace Liu demonstrates her drawing skills live on stage each day of the event. You can also take home autographs from Blizzard developers during developer signing sessions on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.

You’ll be able to witness some of the best pro gamers from around the world battle it out for your viewing pleasure in StarCraft II show matches throughout the event, including players from our StarCraft II World Championship Series global tournament. If you’re a noob, fret not – you can attend our StarCraft II Academy session on Friday, where a well-known StarCraft II personality will teach you how to get an edge on your opponent.

Watch as two well-known World of Warcraft guilds race to see who can annihilate the mightiest enemies fastest during exciting live raids on Saturday and Sunday. You can also witness some of the planet’s best PvP players fight it out in the 2012 European World of Warcraft Invitational Final on Sunday afternoon, streamed live from the Turtle Entertainment booth.

You can also show off your Blizzard knowledge and win some sweet swag during our quizzes, which will happen several times a day. You’ll find all the details for these activities and more on our Activities page.

You can download a printable version of the Blizzard Entertainment gamescom 2012 stage schedule here.

New updates will be posted here as gamescom approaches, so be sure to check back often! We’ll see you at the Koelnmesse in Cologne, Halle 6.1 (B21), August 15-19.

Blizzard Games News
Mists of Pandaria gets a release date, Diablo fans hear some interesting news about legendary items and possible end game content, IPL is wrapping up their latest tournament and MoP gets an introduction cutscene on this week's Blizzard news.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Sha of Anger, Arena of Annihilation, Blue Posts, Blizzard at gamescom, Blizzard News started by chaud View original post
Published on 2012-07-27 06:35 AM
72 Comments
Comments 72 Comments
  1. mmocfc138a9a69's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post

    Are you seriously comparing having a job, or a diploma (and the motivation to have those things), with defeating a virtual boss in a virtual world?

    Yes because it's not about what real and what is not (this counter argument is getting old btw and it always misses the point). The comparison is not about that this is real and this is not, the comparision is about a prinicple to strive for something in order to get something instead of getting rewarded for half assed effort just as well as doing it decently or even better.
    You sir, have already won the 'WoW-Zombie' title: a human being who has completely lost touch with the real world because of addiction to WoW. I guess the rest of us should start reading http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmat...ie-apocalypse/
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    just like in real life you put effort to gain something, just as much you should put in virtual world effort to get something in virtual world.
    Wow! I think that speaks loads in and of itself and doesn't need any rebuttal. I find that point of view very troubling, from a real world standpoint.
    Why?

    I totally agree with him there. If not, they could just send us the newest Tier via mail upon patch release. Now that would be one hell of a boring game to play. You have to put effort in EVERY game. Even if you just play the Crysis 2 solo player campaign.

    The amount of effort you put into a game should be recognized at some level. In Crysis 2 you advance in the story in a multi player game you get points in MMOs you get stuff others don't have.
    The wish to have that stuff creates the drive to play a dungeon multiple times in the first place.

    The amount of "work" must be carefully balanced though, that peeps are not encouraged to lose their entire life in a game to get that one thing they want.


    However I resent the notion that someone killing a boss easier than you half a year later devalues your efforts. It's just not so.
  1. mmocac96309fe0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Please don't try to act stupid now, I know you re not. We're talking about binary outcomes here.
    It's a raid boss. It either dies or it does not die. It dying is rewarded, it not dying is punished. Yes it IS a waste of time to wipe if you mathematically don't stand a chance.

    Same with the race. It would be a waste of my time to race against a F1-Vehicle Pilot because I DON'T STAND A CHANCE IN HELL.

    And no: getting your ass handed to you over and over and over and over again is NOT considered FUN from the majority of the gaming community, thats WHY games change over time.
    How about gamers change over time by improving? That worked back in the day and nobody was whining.

    WRONG! You can't get a better PC right now as you can't get better gear right now. Dude that was the ENTIRE POINT of the example. Funny how you didn't get that.
    Just as you are wrong and keep ignoring the "prinicple" thing I been telling all along.

    They stated it VERY often in the past and Drazztal is basically stating it right now again.
    I rest my case then. God forbid if gaming evolves into anything more then stress sponge.

    Well thank you, for eliminating yourself from the discussion.
    If It was o.k. to say this to the casuals back then it's 100% ok to say it to the wannabe-hardcores RIGHT NOW.

    DEAL WITH IT!
    Except that casuals and actual hardcores are not the same thing.


    Achievements for doing stuff w/o the buff, hell even trow in a e-peen title and a mount which you remove upon entering a new patch cycle, I could live with that.
    That is what I was proposing all along. It's funny how Blizz needed so long to finally get the message.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 03:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvaldin View Post
    Wow! I think that speaks loads in and of itself and doesn't need any rebuttal. I find that point of view very troubling, from a real world standpoint.
    Oh yeah I forgot... Gaming is not allowed to be more then child's play because that wouldn't feel like with someone and whoever dares to do so otherwise deserves medical treatment... silly me.

    That's a poor analogy. Racers are limited to racers. Anyone can participate in a video game if they can download it on their computer.
    Focus less on the "flaws" of the analogy and more on anwsering the question which follows it.

    Challenging content is entirely subjective.
    Thing is that this is the constant anwser whenever the game lowers it's challenge agian and agian and agian rather than staying the same so it wouldnt be subjective anymore. That would be nice dont you think?

    There are rules. You don't like them, but the rules are there.
    /sarcasm on in case you did not noticed
    Rules of proper behaviour? Yeah Im pretty sure they have some power over 2h protection agianst kicks people who keep breaking them
    Rules of common courtesy? Sorry... no place for that, my ilvl is more important.
    /sarcam off

    On a serious note. Do you know of any rules that keeps WoW community good and aspirant to greater challenge? Because I'm either blind or deaf and cant see them at all.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 03:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by trauma443 View Post
    You sir, have already won the 'WoW-Zombie' title: a human being who has completely lost touch with the real world because of addiction to WoW. I guess the rest of us should start reading http://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmat...ie-apocalypse/
    Thank you very much for this (not) prestigious award. I shall put it next to my English Filology certificate I have recently achieved. Yes indeed... god forbid game dare to challenge people and reward for taking the challenge because otherwise you are considered a zombie by the mainstream.
  1. Dvaldin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Why?

    I totally agree with him there. If not, they could just send us the newest Tier via mail upon patch release. Now that would be one hell of a boring game to play. You have to put effort in EVERY game. Even if you just play the Crysis 2 solo player campaign.

    The amount of effort you put into a game should be recognized at some level. In Crysis 2 you advance in the story in a multi player game you get points in MMOs you get stuff others don't have.
    The wish to have that stuff creates the drive to play a dungeon multiple times in the first place.

    The amount of "work" must be carefully balanced though, that peeps are not encouraged to lose their entire life in a game to get that one thing they want.


    However I resent the notion that someone killing a boss easier than you half a year later devalues your efforts. It's just not so.
    Perhaps you misunderstand, it's not about putting effort into it -- it's putting as much effort into it as you do into real life. That's what I have a big problem with.
  1. Koohii's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrotica View Post
    What would the spirit of competition been anyhow? A bulldog? A mini-queen? A raging Scottish guy? A little guy in a bowler hat?
    A bulldog in a bowler hat! That would be awesome! Make it happen Blizzard! Or a Scottish drunk pet that randomly fights other critters/pets!

    And good to see they're reading player concerns and addressing the monk problems.
  1. mmocac96309fe0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Why?

    I totally agree with him there. If not, they could just send us the newest Tier via mail upon patch release. Now that would be one hell of a boring game to play. You have to put effort in EVERY game. Even if you just play the Crysis 2 solo player campaign.

    The amount of effort you put into a game should be recognized at some level. In Crysis 2 you advance in the story in a multi player game you get points in MMOs you get stuff others don't have.
    The wish to have that stuff creates the drive to play a dungeon multiple times in the first place.

    The amount of "work" must be carefully balanced though, that peeps are not encouraged to lose their entire life in a game to get that one thing they want.


    However I resent the notion that someone killing a boss easier than you half a year later devalues your efforts. It's just not so.
    I see we agree here so I guess it's best If I seal it with why I think it does devalue someone's effort. Also sorry in for any rage I induced in you.
    While it is true that It's not entirely accurate that your efforts are completly devalued as there's such a thing as time stamp, it's without a doubt a clear proof that someone did a content without buff or part of current one. However... It's hardly visible and noticable, nobody really points it out unless it is very visible like World First or Realm First to certain extent. Because of that post buff kills are hardly distinguishable from post buff kills without buff.

    Some people including me do not like it. As such I very often adhere to the idea of seperate no buffed achievement to distinguish those who did it in it's original form without any kind of help. It's also not in a "I want to rub it in your face" hostile manner but "Hey! look at this! Try this if you're up to it" friendly manner. I do not wish for competetion driven by jealosy and feeling of inferiority, however many people seem to recieve it only in the latter mentioned way, which saddens me really because we could do better than that.

    So suma sumarum:
    Yes... in theory buffed kills do not devalue non-buffed kills, however it is directly opposite in practice.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 03:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dvaldin View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstand, it's not about putting effort into it -- it's putting as much effort into it as you do into real life. That's what I have a big problem with.
    How can you really distinguish who puts how much effort into both things. Personally I think people find real life effort bigger simply because it's real but not because it's bigger. If anything real life effort is more stressful because of its consequences of failing rather then it being fundamentally more hard. Here's an example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Excel_chart.PNG
    You dont know whether it is about rogue DPS build up curve or a very important graph showing valuable data you need in your finacial company.

    Without knowing whether this curve shows this or that can you judge how much effort you need to learn it or gather data from it?
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    How about gamers change over time by improving? That worked back in the day and nobody was whining.
    2 Problems:

    1) Blizzard would actually have to present the gamers with a learning CURVE, which they never got right, because it takes a lot of design effort.
    Right now you have:
    -Faceroll leveling
    -Faceroll 5mans
    -Faceroll Heroic 5mans (Twilight ones)
    -Faceroll normal mode (My Guild cleared DS nomral in 2-3 IDs. Remember thats the same guild that needs the 25% debuff for spineHC, we are most certainly NOT hardcore in any sense of the word)
    - HARD Heroic raids. (I think we can agree on the fact that w/o debuff DS25 HC is pretty hard)

    People learn incremental. Sometimes these increments are so small that the learning person doesn't even realize that it's improving. People (unless in extreme cases, faced with death or something) never learn in huge leaps. Yet huge leaps is what Blizzard expects in the transition from normal 25man to heroic 25man.

    2) Many players don't want to learn to be good. Blizzard wants to keep these players subscribed to make a profit. -> Game has to be nerfed to get these peeps stuff to do so they continue to pay.

    It's nothing personal, it's just business.

    Because of that post buff kills are hardly distinguishable from post buff kills without buff.
    Some people including me do not like it. As such I very often adhere to the idea of seperate no buffed achievement to distinguish those who did it in it's original form without any kind of help
    Agreed. The "doing it w/o buff" not being recognized in any way (not even date after the buff went live) is a lame move from Blizzard, it already was a lame move back in the days of ICC. Peeps should be rewarded somehow for doing it "uphill in snow barefoot both ways". If it's not with gear, it should be with achievements, hell that's the entire point of the stupid achievement system, to be able to reward players with other stuff than epics. (Not sure, but I think Achievements like these are in Beta?)

    It's also not in a "I want to rub it in your face" hostile manner but "Hey! look at this! Try this if you're up to it" friendly manner. I do not wish for competetion driven by jealosy and feeling of inferiority, however many people seem to recieve it only in the latter mentioned way, which saddens me really because we could do better than that.
    That's a nice sentiment. Honestly. I personally wouldn't be challenged by it, but I also wouldn't be jealous. It's just me, I'm not a person who seeks challenges. I don't study engineering to challenge myself I study b/c I'm curious about technology. Same with WoW.

    Sure, I want a boss to be reasonably hard. I hate LFR because the boss dies in the first pull. I still remember Yogg saron fondly. First times we were there he basically just said: "Well nice try, here are your asses, now GET OFF MY LAWN!"
    But I also want to be sure that my group CAN defeat a boss. If that's not the case, my motivation to progress on that boss is zero. zip. (e.g.: Setup, imagine you need 5 rogues minimum and you only have one in your guild, attempting that boss would be futile)

    Also sorry in for any rage I induced in you.
    Naah no rage at all. I just love heated discussions. If I offended you or came over as furious I apologize. English is, as you probably already noticed, not my native language. ^_^

    Perhaps you misunderstand, it's not about putting effort into it -- it's putting as much effort into it as you do into real life. That's what I have a big problem with.
    Just like content difficulty, the amount of effort perceived is entirely subjective.
    E.g.: Rolling alts for freak setups may be too much for peeps like me, but for others it's just a natural thing to do in order to overcome a challenge.
  1. mmocd853c8f1c4's Avatar
    It's crazy how gamers have changed so much over the 6 years of this game. All in all, I think I'm done with this game. Mists looks ok, but after their failures with Dragon soul AND them saying that Dragon soul is a good indication of how they want raids, I don't think this game is for me anymore. Blizzard as a game company, to me, are way overhyped, for their RPGs anyway.
  1. Harazi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    2 Problems:

    1) Blizzard would actually have to present the gamers with a learning CURVE, which they never got right, because it takes a lot of design effort.
    Right now you have:
    -Faceroll leveling
    -Faceroll 5mans
    -Faceroll Heroic 5mans (Twilight ones)
    -Faceroll normal mode (My Guild cleared DS nomral in 2-3 IDs. Remember thats the same guild that needs the 25% debuff for spineHC, we are most certainly NOT hardcore in any sense of the word)
    - HARD Heroic raids. (I think we can agree on the fact that w/o debuff DS25 HC is pretty hard)

    People learn incremental. Sometimes these increments are so small that the learning person doesn't even realize that it's improving. People (unless in extreme cases, faced with death or something) never learn in huge leaps. Yet huge leaps is what Blizzard expects in the transition from normal 25man to heroic 25man.
    The bigger problem is, the community doesn't help new players/bad players. In a game such as this, players are supposed to help each other learn and grow. Hence the term community. Problem is, the game is full of assholes and pricks. Usually when players see someone who doesn't know what they're doing, they rail against that player and make him/her feel like shit. I was lucky in that I've met some wonderful fellow warriors who guided my hand and helped me get better. Honestly, nowadays, I see someone complain about players who do poorly or don't know things, I automatically assume that guy has never bothered to help and mentor others.
  1. Dvaldin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Oh yeah I forgot... Gaming is not allowed to be more then child's play because that wouldn't feel like with someone and whoever dares to do so otherwise deserves medical treatment... silly me.
    Just because I do not warrant gaming as being comparable to real life does not mean I believe it "child's play".


    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Focus less on the "flaws" of the analogy and more on anwsering the question which follows it.
    Analogies are always flawed and fall short. Personally, I can't stand them anymore because they can be twisted back and forth, every which way (you and I have both seen this happen many, many times). I believe that arguments should stick to the specific point without using such examples.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Thing is that this is the constant anwser whenever the game lowers it's challenge agian and agian and agian rather than staying the same so it wouldnt be subjective anymore. That would be nice dont you think?
    The real challenge for hardcores lies in beating bosses before they're nerfed. To me, that's what the challenge is. It doesn't lessen their achievement. If they have a problem with others beating it at a later date with not as much effort, well...you know, I don't know why there's a focus on what other people are doing. To make sense, it should be about their own personal experience...want the challenge, then turn off the debuff. You can argue as much as you want about how that's unreasonable, but that's the fact. The impetus is on the player to make that challenge. To make things worse, I've heard as a rebuttal, "Why would I make things more difficult for me if I don't have to??"- which makes me want to pull my hair out. I mean, isn't that what you're saying? That you want it more difficult or challenging? The statement just undermines their whole argument.

    I will and have before, however, concede that there is lacking a real motivating factor to do so, and that's a problem. I find it strange that some achievement, even if it's just a Feat of Strength, hasn't been added to encourage attempting something without the debuff...so, I do hear where you're coming from at least in that regard.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    On a serious note. Do you know of any rules that keeps WoW community good and aspirant to greater challenge? Because I'm either blind or deaf and cant see them at all.
    I wish there was a way to regulate behavior, but that's difficult enough to do in real life. In a virtual world with anonymity, it's virtually impossible. lol. Ah, I crack myself up.

    No, I've played with some folks at times who literally just suck. I'm not going to call them out for it or anything. I mean, they're playing to have fun and far be it from me to make someone feel bad in a video game...though, on rare occasions, I've had to take some action if I'm leading a raid because they're a detriment to the others who are pulling their weight.

    Of course, there's a point where that "greater challenge" can only go so far until the next patch...and, to be honest, I believe that the debuffs do inspire more players, though lesser skilled, to aspire to a greater challenge. I don't believe they would even attempt them with nerfs, and it assists to help them learn mechanics they should've learned, you know, in the previous patch (new players/raiders just entering the experience are a rare exception). The ones who really suck still are not going to be able to beat them (unless we're talking Morchok, but I consider that an anomaly). I believe without the nerfs, many wouldn't even attempt it.

    Still, there should be a motivating factor implemented to do attempts with the nerfs.

    On another note, I believe these new challenge modes will be interesting to see how they turn out, and have high hopes something similar will be implemented with raiding. Don't argue those modes be nerfed. Arguments those will be nerfed do not hold muster unless that actually occurs. IF that does occur, then yes, we do have a serious problem Houston.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Just like content difficulty, the amount of effort perceived is entirely subjective.
    E.g.: Rolling alts for freak setups may be too much for peeps like me, but for others it's just a natural thing to do in order to overcome a challenge.
    Still not what I'm saying.

    Maybe this will make it more clear.

    If you don't put effort into real life -- you may starve, end up homeless, without a thing to your name or any number of bad things that will affect your actual quality of living.

    If you don't put effort into a video game, you might wipe on a boss or offend a friend or make someone you don't know angry.

    I'm not saying at all you should not put effort into playing the game. I'm saying not AS MUCH.
  1. Bladesyphon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    How about gamers change over time by improving? That worked back in the day and nobody was whining.
    This is a very incorrect argument when used within the MMO Genre. In a Single Player game that is more balanced around skill than gear, yes, gamers change over time by improving. A player that is unable to defeat a boss in Dark Souls would, in theory, be able to defeat the boss after a number of attempts as individually he is becoming better at the game with each attempt.

    In an MMO, especially one like WoW that is heavily gear heavy, this same principle rarely replies. Just because I can handle the mechanics or gear check of a boss does not mean everyone else in the raid can. That means that I won't be able to progress without leaving my raid for another, or waiting for the others to catch up, if ever.

    This is why the nerfs are implemented: So players can continue to raid with an established guild of friends without feeling like they have to leave them for a guild that's more capable of clearing the content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    I rest my case then. God forbid if gaming evolves into anything more then stress sponge.
    But the question is why should it? Why should the entire gaming genre completely turn into a hard core, competitive, non-relaxing hobby. That would be like telling every person who plays sports recreationaly to relieve stress that they can't do that anymore, and must play them only competitively in order to prevent the sport from becoming stagnant.

    But here's the thing, and it works in WoW too: If you want to play the game for a challenge or competitively, you have that option. Turn off the Nerf in Dragon Soul, and prove to your server you can clear it without needing the nerf. This will become a lot more prevalent in Mists when you're rewarded a Feat of Strength for doing it (because for some ridiculous reason people need to have little stamps to show off that they did something).

    When a nerf can be toggled on or off by the player, there is zero reason to not put it in the game for those that don't care about the competitive aspect of PvE and simply want to finish the content through it's three tiers. And as the blue poster has stated several times, and people like you and others can't grasp: Why the hell do you care if someone finishes a heroic dungeon at a 30% nerf when you can do it without one?

    If you answer: "Because it takes away my feeling of accomplishment", than you aren't playing for the competitive nature or challenge of the game, you're playing to gloat yourself over others.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Oh yeah I forgot... Gaming is not allowed to be more then child's play because that wouldn't feel like with someone and whoever dares to do so otherwise deserves medical treatment... silly me.
    *Sigh* No one is saying that. You're putting words in your mouth to try to prove your point. What people are saying, and rightfully so, is that not everyone wants to play a game that has an extreme amount of challenge in it, and some people enjoy the option of turning the difficulty down so they can play through the content.

    And no, your response of "Oh lol they have LFR" again doesn't work in WoW. In a single player game sure, if a game has three difficulties, and a person finishes it on Easy, that can be it. They can play Normal and Hard later if they want, but that's for a personal challenge and nothing more.

    The problem with WoW is that the higher difficulties award better gear (and aren't slight upgrades) to continue the progression of one's character. Some people (myself not being one of them, but I can understand the desire) like to continually progress their character. Hitting a solid wall in progression of that character becomes frustrating and un-enjoyable, and often times leads to people un-subbing, which is what the Blue Poster is trying to explain to people that don't want to accept that.

    But again: Why do you care if people are getting high-end gear for less "work" than you did? You still finished the content before anyone else did, you still have that knowledge, and that should be enough. I was the first person in the US to finish Mega Man 9 (atleast according to the end-game rankings, I was ranked #1 on completion time over the staff names in the ranking screen) when it released on the Wii back in 2009. I didn't take a picture of it at the time to prove I did so, but I know I finished it first, and that was enough for me.

    Why is it, than, that you can't accept other people are finishing content and getting the same rewards you are MUCH later on in the tier's life cycle. How does that even directly affect you?

    The answer is: It does not, and there is zero logical rebuttal to this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    Thank you very much for this (not) prestigious award. I shall put it next to my English Filology certificate I have recently achieved. Yes indeed... god forbid game dare to challenge people and reward for taking the challenge because otherwise you are considered a zombie by the mainstream.
    The game does. You're rewarded with the fact that you've finished the content before anyone else, have the gear before anyone else, and come Mists of Pandaria, will have the FoS before anyone else for finishing the content without nerfs.

    What you're asking is that those rewards remain mutually exclusive to you and you only. And that is something Blizzard wont, nor ever should, do.

    Even using your ridiculous example of a diploma in comparison to WoW raiding, this still applies. You may get your diploma in college before someone else you know because you are smarter than they are in that subject . But that person can and will get their diploma as well through the use of tutors and extra help to allow them to pass their classes and requirements to obtain one(the equivalent to raid nerfs in this example).

    But according to you, because you got your diploma without a tutor, that person should be forced to do that as well, because if they use a tutor to help them get a diploma, it diminishes the fact that you got yours without one, right?
  1. Dvaldin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesyphon View Post
    Turn off the Nerf in Dragon Soul, and prove to your server you can clear it without needing the nerf. This will become a lot more prevalent in Mists when you're rewarded a Feat of Strength for doing it (because for some ridiculous reason people need to have little stamps to show off that they did something).
    Is that official?

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 04:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    How can you really distinguish who puts how much effort into both things. Personally I think people find real life effort bigger simply because it's real but not because it's bigger. If anything real life effort is more stressful because of its consequences of failing rather then it being fundamentally more hard. Here's an example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Excel_chart.PNG
    You dont know whether it is about rogue DPS build up curve or a very important graph showing valuable data you need in your finacial company.

    Without knowing whether this curve shows this or that can you judge how much effort you need to learn it or gather data from it?
    Effort: A conscious exertion of power : hard work.

    I'm not personally judging how much effort they're putting into it, but if they are consciously exerting more power into determining whether their rogue DPS build up curve is adequate rather than exerting that energy toward interpreting the valuable data in their financial company ... then yes, that is a serious problem.

    Effort is not just an exertion of power, it's a conscious exertion of power. You know how much effort you're putting into something. If you're putting that effort more toward a video game than you are in your actual life -- and again, this is a conscious thing you're doing -- then perhaps some serious soul searching is needed.
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    The bigger problem is, the community doesn't help new players/bad players.
    Yeah right. Almost every time I tried to help a newbie in a friendly way I just get told:

    "STFU Nerd, I play how I want to! You have no RL anyway, loser."

    Eventually you just stop trying to give advice, and I am not the only one. Today, you just kick said person b/c discussion is futile. Most gimpy players of today think they're perfect demigods. They need the GAME tell them not to err, not other players.

    I'm not personally judging how much effort they're putting into it,
    but if they are consciously exerted more power into determining whether their rogue DPS build up curve than exerting that energy toward interpreting the valuable data in their financial company ... then yes, that is a serious problem.
    How do you know it's more? Oh hey you're judging right now. There are matchematical nerds out there that love doing spreadsheets. In fact by the process of creating them they actually learn how to use the programs / how to program and foster their understanding of mathematical functions. That helps them later in real life.

    Is that official?
    I think it's currently only datamined, not sure though.
  1. Dvaldin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    How do you know it's more? Oh hey you're judging right now. There are matchematical nerds out there that love doing spreadsheets. In fact by the process of creating them they actually learn how to use the programs / how to program and foster their understanding of mathematical functions. That helps them later in real life.
    I'm not judging. Notice that word if? That person who's doing it knows, not me.
  1. SoupShandris's Avatar
    Is it just me, or is Lindsey better at this than Pico? (And hotter :3)
  1. Dvaldin's Avatar
    It's not just you, Soup. Lind's really good at it.
  1. mmoc73fb8ac2b2's Avatar
    Something about the Blizzard news video made me lol. "And with a prize pool of over 20k, you can be sure players are gonna bring their A-game"

    Why would Blizzard only throw a 20k prize at SC2 when Valve can afford to throw a 1 Mil prize at a DotA2 tournament? :S
  1. mmocac96309fe0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesyphon View Post
    This is a very incorrect argument when used within the MMO Genre. In a Single Player game that is more balanced around skill than gear, yes, gamers change over time by improving. A player that is unable to defeat a boss in Dark Souls would, in theory, be able to defeat the boss after a number of attempts as individually he is becoming better at the game with each attempt.

    In an MMO, especially one like WoW that is heavily gear heavy, this same principle rarely replies. Just because I can handle the mechanics or gear check of a boss does not mean everyone else in the raid can. That means that I won't be able to progress without leaving my raid for another, or waiting for the others to catch up, if ever.

    This is why the nerfs are implemented: So players can continue to raid with an established guild of friends without feeling like they have to leave them for a guild that's more capable of clearing the content.
    I was talking about MMOs in the past and it worked back then. It's not a hopeless situation as you might think. When a friend is dragging other behind it is in best interest of both of you to tell it out straight out as soon as you can. You can also help him improve but if he as a friend insists on not improving or doesnt take it seriously enough then you might very well considering leaving him behind.


    But the question is why should it? Why should the entire gaming genre completely turn into a hard core, competitive, non-relaxing hobby. That would be like telling every person who plays sports recreationaly to relieve stress that they can't do that anymore, and must play them only competitively in order to prevent the sport from becoming stagnant.
    Once agian... I dont not want entire WoW to be hardcore like. I wish for recognition for those who wish to take it the hard way so it would possibly inspire others to do the hard way as well.
    But here's the thing, and it works in WoW too: If you want to play the game for a challenge or competitively, you have that option. Turn off the Nerf in Dragon Soul, and prove to your server you can clear it without needing the nerf. This will become a lot more prevalent in Mists when you're rewarded a Feat of Strength for doing it (because for some ridiculous reason people need to have little stamps to show off that they did something).
    True and my point all the time was for that prevelenace to be added. Thank god Blizzard finally decided to go with this after so much time. It's a pity though that they wont add this now to DS.
    When a nerf can be toggled on or off by the player, there is zero reason to not put it in the game for those that don't care about the competitive aspect of PvE and simply want to finish the content through it's three tiers. And as the blue poster has stated several times, and people like you and others can't grasp: Why the hell do you care if someone finishes a heroic dungeon at a 30% nerf when you can do it without one?
    Because there is no incentive to do so and some dont want to be associated with them. Thankfully this is fixed in MoP with FoS no buff achievements.

    If you answer: "Because it takes away my feeling of accomplishment", than you aren't playing for the competitive nature or challenge of the game, you're playing to gloat yourself over others.
    and by that kind of gloat I dont want to send "In your face scrubs!" negative message but possitive "Hey! look at me! How about you rise to the challenge". But that in the end falls down to whether someone wants to see it this way or the other. For whatever reason this generation reacts negatively towards other who are better then himself.

    *Sigh* No one is saying that. You're putting words in your mouth to try to prove your point. What people are saying, and rightfully so, is that not everyone wants to play a game that has an extreme amount of challenge in it, and some people enjoy the option of turning the difficulty down so they can play through the content.
    Your message could be hardly interprated otherwise. and yes I'm fine with that! As long as those who want to put it to higher gears are seperated and recognized for doing so.

    And no, your response of "Oh lol they have LFR" again doesn't work in WoW. In a single player game sure, if a game has three difficulties, and a person finishes it on Easy, that can be it. They can play Normal and Hard later if they want, but that's for a personal challenge and nothing more.
    Why not? WoW has in fact 3 difficulties and it's up for personal challenge and incentive to do so. What makes WoW exception?
    The problem with WoW is that the higher difficulties award better gear (and aren't slight upgrades) to continue the progression of one's character. Some people (myself not being one of them, but I can understand the desire) like to continually progress their character. Hitting a solid wall in progression of that character becomes frustrating and un-enjoyable, and often times leads to people un-subbing, which is what the Blue Poster is trying to explain to people that don't want to accept that.
    Well if they want the goodies I think they should do what's neccesary to get them. It's a conflict between principle of aspiring up to the challenge and between "I wanna" attitude. Personally I dont like this and I'd preffer if those who want to get something better should support it with more then just "gimme or I'll unsubscribe". Alas if Blizzard decides to catter to them then fine but as long as they give recognition and incentive to those who decide to do it the hardway then I wont have any problems with that. Thankfully... MoP fixes it.
    But again: Why do you care if people are getting high-end gear for less "work" than you did? You still finished the content before anyone else did, you still have that knowledge, and that should be enough. I was the first person in the US to finish Mega Man 9 (atleast according to the end-game rankings, I was ranked #1 on completion time over the staff names in the ranking screen) when it released on the Wii back in 2009. I didn't take a picture of it at the time to prove I did so, but I know I finished it first, and that was enough for me.
    Well some people are not so easily satisfied. This alone is not enough to make people aspire to get better in game. People need incentive for doing things the hardway otherwise no one will pick the hard way and that will affect negative as a whole. I dont think anyone can say with a straight face that better players are bad for the community (arrogant yes... but that's good player went wrong so to speak).
    Why is it, than, that you can't accept other people are finishing content and getting the same rewards you are MUCH later on in the tier's life cycle. How does that even directly affect you?
    In affects me in such a way that the recognition I get from doing it the hard way is non existant and even if I did it for self satisfaction it still rubbs me odd when I see other getting the same and hear them asking "why did you wasted your time and didnt just waited for the nerfs". In the end this just puts me in the same bag as them and any kind of aspiration to do better than others simply falls down as waste of effort. Aspiration alone is not enough, you need an incentive.

    The answer is: It does not, and there is zero logical rebuttal to this.
    Yes there is. Look above.

    The game does. You're rewarded with the fact that you've finished the content before anyone else, have the gear before anyone else, and come Mists of Pandaria, will have the FoS before anyone else for finishing the content without nerfs.
    That's hardly a reward. Point of the reward is to be noticable to show others that you did achieve something. If there's no visable trophy that you did indeed managed something then we might as well all start lying to ourselves. Self satisfaction alone is not always enough. Recognition, and I mean possitive recognition as in "Hey! this guy went over the top! Let's chase him!" is a good thing.

    What you're asking is that those rewards remain mutually exclusive to you and you only. And that is something Blizzard wont, nor ever should, do.
    No... I never asked for exclusive rewards avaible only to me. I ask for exclusive rewards for all those who choose doing something the hard way. MoP finally fixes this.

    Even using your ridiculous example of a diploma in comparison to WoW raiding, this still applies. You may get your diploma in college before someone else you know because you are smarter than they are in that subject . But that person can and will get their diploma as well through the use of tutors and extra help to allow them to pass their classes and requirements to obtain one(the equivalent to raid nerfs in this example).
    If it's noticable that I did something alone and I am not put in same cattegory as those who did it with aid. I dont mind, but if I'm put in the same league as those who did the same with help and treated the same then I have a problem with that.

    But according to you, because you got your diploma without a tutor, that person should be forced to do that as well, because if they use a tutor to help them get a diploma, it diminishes the fact that you got yours without one, right?
    If I am treated the same as he... yes then that is a problem.
  1. Harazi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yeah right. Almost every time I tried to help a newbie in a friendly way I just get told:

    "STFU Nerd, I play how I want to! You have no RL anyway, loser."

    Eventually you just stop trying to give advice, and I am not the only one. Today, you just kick said person b/c discussion is futile. Most gimpy players of today think they're perfect demigods. They need the GAME tell them not to err, not other players.
    And that's not right either. What about the person who desperately wants help, but then sees situations like what you describe, and clams up for fear of being mistreated? I know from personal experience that there are people willing to learn and grow, but they're not getting any help and are scared to ask questions.
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    I know from personal experience that there are people willing to learn and grow, but they're not getting any help and are scared to ask questions.
    There are very very well written tutorials for every class in the official wow forum. They are far better written than I could explain it on the fly. If people are unwilling to learn there nothing you can do about it.

    And of course, I also had peeps that were happy about help, but sadly these are the minority. The mentality of today is "Well boss dead, loot there, nothing else matters". They don't see anymore that they were carried. They don't want to see.

    I don't know but it usually bugs the hell out of me if another player does better. I always ask him "Hey how do you do that?" And usually I get nice advice.
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