Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Coming to the PTR in the near future will be a new designation of item type in Normal and Heroic raids for non-tier pieces. Each 5.2 raid boss will have a chance of dropping this new designation of a particular item that’s 6 item levels higher than their counterparts. These higher quality versions will be called “Thunderforged”. This means that there will be five variations of some items. You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.

This new item designation is being added for a couple reasons, but first and foremost to make loot drops more interesting overall, especially after you have earlier bosses in Throne of Thunder on farm. As you’re working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.

We’ve also received a lot of feedback regarding 25-player raids, and have been looking for ways to address some concerns. Ever since we changed 10-player raids to drop the same item level as 25s, we’ve seen a steady decline in 25-player raiding. This isn’t surprising. A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups. It’s unfortunately easy for a 25-player guild to collapse down into a 10-player guild, but very unlikely for the opposite to happen. However, we like 25-player raiding and don’t want to see it go away. Like many players, we love the epic feeling that comes with banding together more massive groups to battle powerful foes, we love that there’s opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden, and we want to support the larger raiding guilds. That said, we’re also concerned that over-rewarding the 25-player guilds—if, for example, we went back to a higher item level across the board for 25s, as was the case for Icecrown Citadel—would feel like a slap in the face to the many 10-player raiders out there, who are the majority of our Normal and Heroic raiders.

To attempt to navigate this minefield, we’re going to try having Thunderforged items drop more frequently in 25-player raids. They’ll be somewhat rare in both cases compared to the standard versions that’ll drop, but they’ll be even rarer in 10s. Overall, a 25-player group will be more likely to end up with a slightly higher item level after several weeks of raiding.

It’s important to keep in mind that this only affects 10- and 25-player Normal and Heroic raids, and tier-15 armor pieces won’t be available in Thunderforged quality at all. We’re curious to hear your thoughts about these changes, and what you think once you begin seeing them on the PTR.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 5.2 - 10 and 25 Player Raid Loot Changes started by chaud View original post
Comments 369 Comments
  1. Duster505's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    I don't think this is going to work at all. Sure, Thunderforged pieces -might- make farming bosses a little more exciting, but not by much I imagine. Farming a boss is still farming a boss, it's boring.

    And the 25 player bonus is pretty much laughable. After it's all said and done, 25 players will end up with 2-3 item levels higher gear. That's nothing to get excited about either.
    I think Thunderforged pieces will actually make farming bosses just more frustrating than it makes them interesting. More ppl will be dissapointed on every drop than those that are happy.
  1. vamonos's Avatar
    huge slap in the face for 10man raiders and basicly forcing all the competitive 10man grps to do bosses that are on farm 25man for thuderforged items for their 10man progress team
  1. Shampro's Avatar
    I dont understand how is it bad for haveing a little bit more gear in both raid sizes is a bad thing, I just dont.

    Also the people that are saying this a slap in the face for 10man are morons, come up with a better solution why dont you, and no coiming back with the WOTLK model THAT is a slap in the face, dont be fucking stupid.

    God this community....
  1. TheBaron87's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Essenji View Post
    Nail, please meet Coffin.
    Liking the idea, disliking the fact that 10-man raiders get fucked over.
    You're not. This is actually a pretty brilliant solution. Unlike 25's dropping higher ilvls 100% of the time, which is sort of screwing over 10-mans, they're just going to get these new boosted items a little more frequently than you. However, every 10 man guild still has the chance to fully equip their raid in thunderforged items. That's the key here. Now, 25-mans will take more patience and perseverance to organize their raids, like they always have, while 10-mans will take more patience and perseverance to get the boosted loot, which is their tradeoff for having a raid that's easier to form and lead. As an officer, I would still rather do 10-man, but at least now there's a real incentive to put up with the hassle of organizing 150% more people, beyond the glorious image of a huge mob beating the shit out of each boss.
  1. Crazia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    And half a dozen bosses you forgot to mention, being the clueless average retard you are.
    Stone Guard
    Amber Shaper
    Protectors of the Endless
    Actually im not much of a clueless retard, ive been raidleading on every boss on both 10, 25 and 40 man since late Vanilla.

    Ambershaper is probably abit harder on 10 man yea, but the rest? not at all, if i should mention 1 more it would be Warmaster in DS.

    I find it funny that u listed Stone guards more than anything, 3 bosses instead of 4 ? lol
  1. Firebert's Avatar
    Needs LFR Thunderforged at 508.
  1. ihyln's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vamonos View Post
    huge slap in the face for 10man raiders and basicly forcing all the competitive 10man grps to do bosses that are on farm 25man for thuderforged items for their 10man progress team
    but.. but.. but.. optional just like dailies, right?
  1. Salvage's Avatar
    I think the thunderforged gear is a stupid idea.
  1. Grym's Avatar
    I don't really see the problem.

    They have a HIGHER CHANCE for TR gear to drop, but doesn't mean they don't drop in 10man, and you know how RNG works, A with higher chance doesn't always means he gets more than B who has a lower chance.

    I would have against it if it is a fix ilvl increase, or get something that you just cannot get in 10man, but I am OK with them have a slightly higher chance, just like now it is more likely for them to get gear that isn't going to get DE'd or goes to OS (hence more actual upgrades).

    Since 10man can still obtain these TR amours, I am OK with it.
  1. vamonos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
    but.. but.. but.. optional just like dailies, right?
    optional kinda yes, not so much if u wanna stay competitive. same with dailies on launch optional kinda yes.....
  1. Hyperstomper's Avatar
    so there is no more elite gear or there will be thunderforged elite pieces ?
  1. Simon_Moon's Avatar
    If that leads to an increase in 25 man normal mode pugs, I as a casual weekend pugger will rejoice.

    Yet, I have no idea why blizzards sets the mark to be prepared for progress raiding in a mathematically optimal sense higher and higher. This does not only affect the hardcore crowd but also the low-end one night a week group that starts normal modes and realizes joe does not have his klaxxi ring.
  1. superstargoddess's Avatar
    Thank God they are doing something about 25 player raiding, I really miss doing 25 player, and it's dead on my large server. Most guilds have went down to 10 man and there are NO 25 man pugs at all. I feel it's more epic to do 25, as the article says.
  1. Stommped's Avatar
    This is so stupid, we can't even roll for this gear? Absolutely fucking brutal tier incoming with weeks and weeks of getting screwed with RNG and being forced to compete with other guilds who may have better "luck"
  1. Oratory's Avatar
    It's not enough of a bonus to get all the 10s to go back to 25 but it's a nod to the 25s that are still around.

    We'll have to wait and see the actual odds to see how it actually works out.

    I think a 25% chance per item in 10 and a 35% chance per item in 25 would be ok. That would be on average 0-1 thunderforged items per boss in 10 and about 2 items in 25.
  1. Hulari's Avatar
    I miss the simple days. *sobs*
  1. Uselessrouge's Avatar
    I think you can make the argument that the game was better when everyone didn't have the expectation of all BiS. Agree / disagree?
    ok so even if we raid 7 months the same stuff we cant expect to get BiS gear or upgrade our toon because its 10m? sad
  1. hanabi12's Avatar
    Best thing blizzard did this xpac so far.
  1. Quarla's Avatar
    I honestly feel as if this doesn't address the real issue at all. If blizzard really wanted to help 25mans out more when honestly one of the hardest things about 25m over 10m is their recruiting, then they'd figure out a better system to recruit. The recruitment forums are a fricking nightmare. Come up with a new system there and I think that would make so many 10 and 25m guilds so much happier. People really should decide to raid with a 25m over a 10m for more reasons than just loot. I dunno, I just don't think this is a real solution at all.
  1. kaamila's Avatar
    it doesnt matter what the drop rate is for 25man.. its probably going to be just like in DS with the random trinket drops. if you raid 25man, everyone will get their trinket, if you raid in 10man, only acouple people will get the trinket for the entire tier. i can see this being the same; 25man getting all their thunderforged gear a hell of alot faster than in 10man if at all.

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