WoW Down to 9.6 Million Subscribers

Originally Posted by ZeroWashu

Get back to me when they lose a fourth of their subs across a year. Otherwise your just seeing normal churn. Their churn just happens to be more than most games have/ever had.

WOW is unique, most games only get a honey moon, wow had a, in your terms, "a golden age"

They lost about 1/4 already in 2 years...and given what the result on some servers is, you really don't want to see that going even faster. The main attraction of WoW is the huge player base and that fact that many already have an account(tho in many cases inactive). If the player base keeps going down then WoW will lose exponentially...wow is a bit like facebook there. As long as many have it, they will attract many more(although their features or service is not better or even worse and mor expensive than that of the competitioners)....but when it gets "uncool" it may go down in a very short time(your 1/4 per year is pretty possible then).

A loss is a loss. Being it bigger or not. 500k compared to the 9.6M they still have is a small loss imo.

And the fun thing is that those 500k will be back at the next expansion. They always do even when they shout and scream that they will never be back.

And as a small note, when blizzard launches a new mmo we will be all playing it and that includes those 500k that just left from wow. And the bitching about the game will be the same as it is now on wow.
Human nature i guess....

Originally Posted by Mondroc

Yup, because it's true. You say that 9.6 million is a game dying.. What does that say for every other mmo out there? Already dead? Or is it purely on how fast you're going down not total numbers? Or are you just scewing things so you have an arguement? Hmm?

Don't be ignorant child

Originally Posted by Furbolger

I completely agree.
A telling example is the new Bnet system. Back in the day my friends and I could all play Starcraft at my house, sometimes with up to 6 players, just because we burned the cd's, and even though that might seem like bad business this meant that guys that had never played could join in every once in while. Most got hooked and bought the game for themselves and Starcraft quickly spread through my circle of friends.
Now, even though we're all still huge Starcraft fans we don't play SC2 and don't plan on buying it, simply because we would all need a BNet account, pay for the game and all that without knowing if it's even much fun. I myself and some other friends are willing to buy it and have faith that it would prove to be fun, but the fact would remain that none of our other friends could just join in every once in a while.
I liked the WCIII system much better, because there is still incentive to buy the game for the online play, but even friends that don't own the game can join in for a lan-game every once in a while.

Of course no company would allow you to play for free, that would be stupid. A trial is the best you can get.

Originally Posted by Pacster

They lost about 1/4 already in 2 years...and given what the result on some servers is, you really don't want to see that going even faster. The main attraction of WoW is the huge player base and that fact that many already have an account(tho in many cases inactive). If the player base keeps going down then WoW will lose exponentially...wow is a bit like facebook there. As long as many have it, they will attract many more(although their features or service is not better or even worse and mor expensive than that of the competitioners)....but when it gets "uncool" it may go down in a very short time(your 1/4 per year is pretty possible then).

Most of the losses were Chinese players anyway, which according to the NA/EA players, don't matter. Well, they don't matter when WoW increases subs there but they matter the most when they lose those subs, apparently, to people who have a hard on for this "ah mah gawd subssss" crowd WoW seems to attract.

I know Chinese aren't technically "subs."

All games loses subs, all gain. Constant flux. They lost a lot at the start of Cata, lost a little more, evened out, gained subs, then lost after the initial launch of an expansion (which is typical). I just don't see the hard on people have on WoW's numbers, though. I mostly attribute it to rage mostly. Game didn't die after they threatened to unsub like they said it would.

Originally Posted by Giledhel

A loss is a loss. Being it bigger or not. 500k compared to the 9.6M they still have is a small loss imo.

When looking at the 500k figure you need to put it in context.

First, it's likely that more were lost than the 500k because that did not include all of the people who would have signed on in China for MoP.

Secondly, 500k is the biggest loss that they have had 3 months after the release of an expansion. The only other expansion that lost customers shortly after release was Cataclysm and that lost about 300k/400k after 3 months. It's definitely not normal churn.

From the minute we are born we are "dying". It is all about perspective, really. I love the game, but no longer sub 2 accounts because I am tired of it. However, I also have yet to find anything in the last year that is equally enticing for both myself and my wife and friends, which is pretty key, so WoW it is.

Originally Posted by Ausr

Most of the losses were Chinese players anyway, which according to the NA/EA players, don't matter. Well, they don't matter when WoW increases subs there but they matter the most when they lose those subs, apparently, to people who have a hard on for this "ah mah gawd subssss" crowd WoW seems to attract.

I know Chinese aren't technically "subs."

All games loses subs, all gain. Constant flux. They lost a lot at the start of Cata, lost a little more, evened out, gained subs, then lost after the initial launch of an expansion (which is typical). I just don't see the hard on people have on WoW's numbers, though. I mostly attribute it to rage mostly. Game didn't die after they threatened to unsub like they said it would.

That argument doesn't make sense. If most of the lost subscribers were Chinese subs and the 10.1 million was before the release of MoP then that would imply that China lost subs despite the release of an expansion. If you use the Cata figures as a template, WOW could lose as many as 2 million subscribers in the 12 months following MoP.

I hate how these threads inflate. It's like sub numbers are anything new.
And as soon as there's a sub loss, for whatever reason, it validates the whiners who's going to attribute the decline to whatever part of the game they aren't enjoying.

Especially hilarious are those who claim to have played since classic beta, and whine about the game being boring for them. No shit?

These quarter numbers hurt the community. They hurt it because it validates opinions often based on nothing but subjectivity. "I don't like t14 therefore the raids are bad".
And then a minor sub loss is registered, which is to be expected as MoP brought people back, some quit because they didn't feel like they'd like to start playing regularly again, some left because of dailies (ya know, those that Blizzard forces you to do, even though you only get 1000 valor per week max) and some has moved on.

By the way, the game is 8 years old, and you still think subs must go up to show the game is doing good? Despite pretty much everyone who were interested in Warcraft has already tried WoW? Doesn't matter how good the game is, when a game has exhausted it's hype among potential new players.
Like it or not, the game is arguably in the best state it has ever been in, perhaps not for those who were lucky to get a stable guild in classic/bc (which had broken progression anyway), but now we have more players seeing more content than ever. If you can't accept that, it's time to move on.

The game sure didn't get any worse by losing those who didn't like the state of the game, but apparently 95% thought it was worth to keep subscribing.
The subs WILL continue to decrease, because a game cannot attract players forever, regardless how much it improves.

As soon as people get that through their skulls, maybe the forums will be a better place.

If you use the Cata figures as a template, WOW could lose as many as 2 million subscribers in the 12 months following MoP.

Luckily, Blizzard aren't going back to Cataclysms failed design of letting people progress/cap too quickly, get bored and quit.
--

Also, can people stop with the goddamn conspiracy theories? Lying about subs would be devastating to Blizzard, and they count subs the same way they ALWAYS HAVE.

ps

Originally Posted by MasterHamster

Luckily, Blizzard aren't going back to Cataclysms failed design of letting people progress/cap too quickly, get bored and quit.

I hope so. The problem is that Cata lost 1.7 million over 12 odd months. It lost 400k of those in the first 3 months. MoP is already above that.

Bliz made quite a few mistakes in cata (and MoP) and I am sure that they will be working furiously to fix those. It already looks like they are pushing out content faster. The problem will always be about keeping people interested without too much grind and without content (which takes time to create). Their focus seems to be on raids at the moment. LFR helps to make raids accessible to everyone but there are a lot of people who don't raid and RNG has this way of driving people nuts. I would love to see WOW change it's looting to be like GW2 (with the exception of organised raids). Everyone has their own loot. You each loot the boss/creep and what you find is yours. Similar to LFR, just for everything, LFR, LFD and casual kills.

Big drop? Yes
Expected drop? Yes

Many people (including myself) had the annual pass, simply to get D3. Annual pass runs out, people tried MoP, some liked it, some others didn't.

Without the constraint of the annual pass they could feel free to cancel at any time once it ran out, so I think overall this is kind of where Blizz would probably expect it to settle.

As for the game dying - hell no! My realm is going down the pan (Turalyon EU), but going to be transferring over to a higher pop realm that I have been messing about with, and it is busy 24/7. The game will die only when Blizz decide to stop making content, which will be for a good few years yet!

DAoC has been chundering along with an active playerbase of less than 5k for a few years now, and you don't get their players dwelling on the game's demise. They just continue to play because their gaming experience has not changed one iota. They level up new toons, they spend time and effort kitting them out and then they hit the frontiers to PVP. The only complaints I have ever seen have been centered around unfair advantages (3v1 stealther ganking or zerging).

WoW, on the other hand, is plagued with butthurt ex-subscribers who are so utterly anxious for Blizzard's world to burn that it has driven them nuts! Drop it and move on!

Personally, the subscriber drop-off means absolutely nothing to me. As long as there is content to be had, I couldn't give a shekl less if there were 9.6 million or 960 people playing.

Originally Posted by stouthaggis

DAoC has been chundering along with an active playerbase of less than 5k for a few years now, and you don't get their players dwelling on the game's demise. They just continue to play because their gaming experience has not changed one iota. They level up new toons, they spend time and effort kitting them out and then they hit the frontiers to PVP. The only complaints I have ever seen have been centered around unfair advantages (3v1 stealther ganking or zerging).

WoW, on the other hand, is plagued with butthurt ex-subscribers who are so utterly anxious for Blizzard's world to burn that it has driven them nuts! Drop it and move on!

Personally, the subscriber drop-off means absolutely nothing to me. As long as there is content to be had, I couldn't give a shekl less if there were 9.6 million or 960 people playing.

What do you want to tell us? I mean, seriously...the last few thousand players usually only play a game to be able to say "we are the last few, we stand strong"....most of them would likely go to Guantanamo Bay for holidays given how resistant to toture they are already. ;-)
You find those in Ultima online and even in the worst brainmelting asia-grinders....
I heard some nerds still play "pong" for highscores....;-)

Originally Posted by Pacster

What do you want to tell us? I mean, seriously...the last few thousand players usually only play a game to be able to say "we are the last few, we stand strong"....most of them would likely go to Guantanamo Bay for holidays given how resistant to toture they are already. ;-)
You find those in Ultima online and even in the worst brainmeltiing asia-grinder....

I think you're losing sight of the fact that they are video games and are a form of entertainment.

If you don't like doing something, you stop doing it!

It's still doing well, nothing to see here. Though, I still wish they'd merge dead servers like mine.

http://www.thedailyblink.com/2013/02...-in-one-panel/

'Nuff said.

LFR, Everything in the game revolving around dailies, and poor pvp balance I feel really is the cause of subscriber loss. I will keep playing and somewhat enjoying the game. But anyone who says that wow is "fine" is delusional. Its dieing a slow slow death unless something changes. The problem is that for a few hours a week the game is a challenge ( Heroic raiding) then for the other hours its just Boring and Easy grinding, in preperation for the challenging fun content. Not to mention that LFR is waaay too easy. I mean someone who dosnt have time for raiding, but plays LFR, the game must be boring as hell for them? Just because people cant play often, dosnt mean they want to be able to afk their way through the content.

Daily's = Absolutely awful way too many, its like they thought the more they put in the more people would go wow its awesome you guys are great.

LFR = Please god no. Stupidly high health on the lol fest. Barely any chance of wiping, its bored.com by the time your quarter of the way though their health, not to mention the totally stupid loot system that gives the same crap over and over again. Why not allow people to pass if they wish if they already have it to a random member of their class. And please introduce me to the person who came up with 28g 50s.......

Realms = Moonglade for example is dying along with other realms what is the big deal in merging and shutting a few down. Lets not mention the stupid £15 charge to move one char I have 13 alts on my server why not do £15 per account at least its something. Oh and here's a finger Blizzard for giving Asia free transfers and free factions changes appreciate you value that customer base more.

Valor Points = Insanely long time to cap which you will never do if you have a life and can't stand one more LFR.

Dungeons = Not bad overall except for the Stormstout Brewery. What a stupid immature dungeon that is. It breaks the feel of the game to some childish rabbits and giant vegetables. The Bosses are just like they are appealing to a 5yr old child and I am not even going to start on the copyright of Kung Fu Panda along with stupid cutesy panda faces. What is the obsession with alcohol in this expansion?

Valley of the Four Winds = Reeks of a game I would let my 6yr old play. Admit you went too far in trying to please and break into the Asian market that you set the game rating back to under 10`s.

Talents = Good going on completely making it something a 2yr old could do and again dumbing it down.

25m Raids = Why bother having a 25m version? 95% of 25m guilds are dead you killed them all ages ago, Kung Fu Panda I mean MOP just stamped on the grave some more.

Pet Battles = Was pleasantly surprised, good job.

Ghost form = Ugh admit you screwed up and give us back flying in ghost form or at least FIX THE DAMN THING SO WE CAN ACTUALLY REACH OUR CORPSES!

Mass Summon = Come on seriously its time to give it back.

Intro = Worst ever, that's the best you could do? Some panda chewing on a blade of grass like a cow?

Cross Realm Zones = If I start on this I would never stop....

Its not all bad, overall it is a decent expansion but Blizzard will never fix these things and it will continue to slide right now biggest irritation is the dead realms and lack of action.

Originally Posted by zuluslayer

I'am still subscribing but i never play anymore. Guess the actual number of players is much lower. Seems the casual bendover killed the spirit of the game for good.

Are you stupid or something? if you aint playing the game why the hell would you sub. Do you burn money irl aswell?

Jesus christ AND you make it sound like its blizzards fault....wow you bottomfeeder go on with your life.
And what do you mean casuals? Have you done Heroic Sha of Fear yet? If you havent then you have ALOT of noncasual things to do.

Originally Posted by stouthaggis

I think you're losing sight of the fact that they are video games and are a form of entertainment.

If you don't like doing something, you stop doing it!

Ehm....öhm....nope. You stop doing it if it hurts your ego more than it buffs it. As long as you are on top of the food chain you will likely "enjoy" even the worst game of the planet...that's psychology. There are many, many, many people out there that still play WoW although they are not enjoying it more than 10% of their actual playtime(and those 10% are often chats with guildmates...so not even really part of the actual game).
If we'd all only do what we like in WoW...hey...then the sentence of "Wow is dead" would truely fit. Just ask yourself how much fun you actually have running the same daily for the 10ths time...or lfr...or playing with 30 bots in AV. On a scale from 1-10 how much would you love doing all that if you had a level 1 nobody char and could just leave without of having to look bakc on the char you gave up?
Don't fool yourself....

It's the same crap that makes us collect such interesting stuff like...uhm..stamps(or 150000 other crazy things that are just collecting dust in some corner)...that we then hide in books and take a look at all 5 years just to see what a nice "achievement" we have there(and at times we find another dude that is trying to satisfy his ego in the same way and then we can compare and compete...yay....(or boooh....if we lose that competition that is. Got to try harder then...or find a different thing.)). ;-)